Push+Pull vs Pull/Push

[Iglesias]

I'm about to buy a Kraken X60 and I'm wondering if the push+pull is more effective than a pull/push?

Thanks!

 

[cuecuemore]

From what I've seen from people who have tested it, those setups are about the same.

And I don't want to question your research, but I'd hate it if you bought it and it didn't fit; what case are you using?

 

[Iglesias]

From what I've seen from people who have tested it, those setups are about the same.

And I don't want to question your research, but I'd hate it if you bought it and it didn't fit; what case are you using?

Oh, I know it fits.. It's the Phantom 530.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

Might find this interesting

http://martinsliquidlab.i4memory.com/Radiator-Fan-Orientation-And-Shroud-Testing-Review.html

 

[cuecuemore]

^An eye opener. Only gave it a glance just now, but if it comes from Martin's, it's the best there is.

 

[Iglesias]

Might find this interesting

http://martinsliquidlab.i4memory.com/Radiator-Fan-Orientation-And-Shroud-Testing-Review.html

That's a lot to read and I don't understand it.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

That's a lot to read and I don't understand it.

Just skip to the end then

Push Vs Pull - This depends on fan speed/power. The high speed fans at 2000RPM with a 38mm fan thickness provided the best performance in a push condition. The slow speed fans with 1350RPM with a 25mm fan thickness provided the best performance in a pull condition. I would estimate that performance line is likely to cross in the 1500-1700RPM range where they are equal. So.... slow speed = pull, high speed = push, medium speed = it doesn't really matter.

2 fans Push/Pull vs others - It was very clear that when using two fans per radiator section, that the radiator intself acts as a flow spreader and provided great benefit to straightening out the air for the second fan in a push/pull configuration. Just like doubling up with a pump, there is a pressure benefit to doubling up on fans and this translates to about a 20-30% performance gain. The added fan pressure simply means and added gain in air flow and corresponding performance. None of the experimental pull/pull or push/push configurations provided any noteworthy benefit as it seams the air is simply too disturbed from the first fan to allow the second to perform properly when air is moving. I would always recommend a push/pull configuration for two fans and add a shroud to both sides if space allows.

 

[4Ryan6]

I'm about to buy a Kraken X60 and I'm wondering if the push+pull is more effective than a pull/push?

Thanks!

From my own experimentation using a pull setup with a shroud allows full unobstructed airflow through the entire radiator face.

Unobstructed means there is no fan motor blockage of airflow from the fans being directly mounted to the radiator itself and even in a push/pull or pull/push, there is fan motor airflow blockage of the fins directly sandwiched between the 2 fan motor bodies.

Shrouds allow full airflow to be pulled or pushed through those blocked areas, allowing the radiator to perform at it's maximum cooling capability.

Shrouds also allow using lower quieter running fans to accomplish the same cooling simply because the fan motor blockage is gone.

Some fan motor bodies are as large as 2" in diameter, you cannot honestly simply look at the size of the fan motor and believe air can be pulled or pushed through that blocked area.

That's why shrouds were invented in the first place to solve the fan blockage problem, and you can create your own if you have old 140mm fans, simply gut the fan motor spider out of the frame, and use the old frame as a shroud.

Once you discover the effectiveness of a shroud your own self, you'll never run without one again.

 

[Iglesias]

I'm about to buy a Kraken X60 and I'm wondering if the push+pull is more effective than a pull/push?

Thanks!

From my own experimentation using a pull setup with a shroud allows full unobstructed airflow through the entire radiator face.

Unobstructed means there is no fan motor blockage of airflow from the fans being directly mounted to the radiator itself and even in a push/pull or pull/push, there is fan motor airflow blockage of the fins directly sandwiched between the 2 fan motor bodies.

Shrouds allow full airflow to be pulled or pushed through those blocked areas, allowing the radiator to perform at it's maximum cooling capability.

Shrouds also allow using lower quieter running fans to accomplish the same cooling simply because the fan motor blockage is gone.

Some fan motor bodies are as large as 2" in diameter, you cannot honestly simply look at the size of the fan motor and believe air can be pulled or pushed through that blocked area.

That's why shrouds were invented in the first place to solve the fan blockage problem, and you can create your own if you have old 140mm fans, simply gut the fan motor spider out of the frame, and use the old frame as a shroud.

Once you discover the effectiveness of a shroud your own self, you'll never run without one again.

So you're saying having a shroud for push/pull will have an impact as if it was without a shroud?
Which do you think performs better with a shroud, push or a pull. Or the difference is very minimal.

 

[4Ryan6]

I'm about to buy a Kraken X60 and I'm wondering if the push+pull is more effective than a pull/push?

Thanks!

From my own experimentation using a pull setup with a shroud allows full unobstructed airflow through the entire radiator face.

Unobstructed means there is no fan motor blockage of airflow from the fans being directly mounted to the radiator itself and even in a push/pull or pull/push, there is fan motor airflow blockage of the fins directly sandwiched between the 2 fan motor bodies.

Shrouds allow full airflow to be pulled or pushed through those blocked areas, allowing the radiator to perform at it's maximum cooling capability.

Shrouds also allow using lower quieter running fans to accomplish the same cooling simply because the fan motor blockage is gone.

Some fan motor bodies are as large as 2" in diameter, you cannot honestly simply look at the size of the fan motor and believe air can be pulled or pushed through that blocked area.

That's why shrouds were invented in the first place to solve the fan blockage problem, and you can create your own if you have old 140mm fans, simply gut the fan motor spider out of the frame, and use the old frame as a shroud.

Once you discover the effectiveness of a shroud your own self, you'll never run without one again.

So you're saying having a shroud for push/pull will have an impact as if it was without a shroud?
Which do you think performs better with a shroud, push or a pull. Or the difference is very minimal.

Pull is my preference because if there is any fan motor heat, no matter how slight, it's not pushed through the rad.

 

[Iglesias]

I'm about to buy a Kraken X60 and I'm wondering if the push+pull is more effective than a pull/push?

Thanks!

From my own experimentation using a pull setup with a shroud allows full unobstructed airflow through the entire radiator face.

Unobstructed means there is no fan motor blockage of airflow from the fans being directly mounted to the radiator itself and even in a push/pull or pull/push, there is fan motor airflow blockage of the fins directly sandwiched between the 2 fan motor bodies.

Shrouds allow full airflow to be pulled or pushed through those blocked areas, allowing the radiator to perform at it's maximum cooling capability.

Shrouds also allow using lower quieter running fans to accomplish the same cooling simply because the fan motor blockage is gone.

Some fan motor bodies are as large as 2" in diameter, you cannot honestly simply look at the size of the fan motor and believe air can be pulled or pushed through that blocked area.

That's why shrouds were invented in the first place to solve the fan blockage problem, and you can create your own if you have old 140mm fans, simply gut the fan motor spider out of the frame, and use the old frame as a shroud.

Once you discover the effectiveness of a shroud your own self, you'll never run without one again.

So you're saying having a shroud for push/pull will have an impact as if it was without a shroud?
Which do you think performs better with a shroud, push or a pull. Or the difference is very minimal.

Pull is my preference because if there is any fan motor heat, no matter how slight, it's not pushed through the rad.

Alright, I plan to do exhaust too
Will this gasket work with the Kraken X60?
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/18048/ex-rad-471/Phobya_140mm_Radiator_Gasket_-_10mm_38337.html?tl=g30c429s1338#blank

 

[JackNaylorPE]

Here's Martin's results w/ single 38mm fan @ 2000 rpm (lower is better) for those that couldn't get thru the article:

1 fan PULL - 10.1C
1 fan PUSH - 9.2
1 fan PULL w/ shroud - 8.5
1 fan PUSH w/ shroud - 8.2
2 fans PUSH / PULL - 7.6
2 fans PUSH / PULL w/ shroud- 7.3

Ofcourse the tricky part is .... the shroud is 31mm thick....so if ya have say 70mm of room as in the phanteks worth the loss of 31mm ? That takes ya from a 70mm rad, past the 45 to the 30mm ..... no ya know why water cooling afficionados are all using monster size cases

 

[4Ryan6]

Your choice does not space the fan far enough from the radiator.

I would get 2 of these, they allow plenty of spacing, and come with all the screws you need.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=30188

 

[JackNaylorPE]

Pull is my preference because if there is any fan motor heat, no matter how slight, it's not pushed through the rad.

Based upon Martin's results, I'm planning pull as I'm using 1350 rpm fans .....

 

[Iglesias]

Your choice does not space the fan far enough from the radiator.

I would get 2 of these, they allow plenty of spacing, and come with all the screws you need.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=30188

Like screws that would get the fan onto the shroud and locked onto the radiator?

 

[JackNaylorPE]

Your choice does not space the fan far enough from the radiator.

I would get 2 of these, they allow plenty of spacing, and come with all the screws you need.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=30188

Thats the question tho I was worried about up above.... those buggers do a great job .... but...

rad is 27mm .... shroud is 42mm .... and fan is 25mm

Is 27mm Kraken rad w/ 42mm shroud as good as a 60mm Rad w/o shroud ?

And can the Kraken be disassembled / reassembled to accommodate ?

And if we still talking push / pull .... 27mm + 2 x (42mm + 25mm) = is there room for 161 mm ?

 

[4Ryan6]

Your choice does not space the fan far enough from the radiator.

I would get 2 of these, they allow plenty of spacing, and come with all the screws you need.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=30188

Thats the question tho I was worried about up above.... those buggers do a great job .... but...

rad is 27mm .... shroud is 42mm .... and fan is 25mm

Is 27mm Kraken rad w/ 42mm shroud as good as a 60mm Rad w/o shroud ?

And can the Kraken be disassembled / reassembled to accommodate ?

And if we still talking push / pull .... 27mm + 2 x (42mm + 25mm) = is there room for 161 mm ?

That's definitely a point to consider for an inside the box setup, for myself I realized a long time ago to get the cooling I was after required thinking outside the box, but not everyone thinks that way, so good point for him to consider.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

Pulled the AC and car radiators from my son's car yesterday .... and I thought "Ryan would like these". Cost him $90 for a replacement and I thought .... hell this is 32" a 24" .... the dang 3 x 140 is costing me $125 !

left ya a question BTW in 106

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1787372/water-cooling-106-pumps.html

 

[4Ryan6]

In the early days of water cooling car radiators were the choice for the overclockers.

Todays computer water cooling radiators have come a long way in their design advancements the choices are as complicated as choosing what CPU to run.

Fin grouping requiring either low air flow or high airflow or high static pressure air flow, takes radiators into, the, must study the cooling need including overclocking, or get seriously disappointed with the end performance results.

I have no doubt you could cool a car with the Watercool MO-RA3 I use just to cool my GPU.