Putting spells with illegal targets on the stack

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hello, All!
Let's say that at the end of a busy turn my opponent plays Brain Freeze,
targeting me:

Brain Freeze
{1}{U}
Instant
Target player puts the top three cards of his or her library into his or
her graveyard.
Storm (When you play this spell, copy it for each spell played before it
this turn. You may choose new targets for the copies.)

The Storm ability triggers while Brain Freeze is played and is put on
the stack above the original spell. Suppose, I play Gilded Light in
response to the Storm ability (with no additional copies of Brain Freeze
on the stack yet):

Gilded Light
{1}{W}
Instant
You can't be the target of spells or abilities this turn.
Cycling {2} ({2}, Discard this card from your hand: Draw a card.)

After that, we both pass throughout.

Gilded Light resolves, making me untargetable this turn. When Storm
ability resolves, it puts many copies of the original Brain Freeze -
copying everything, including target. My opponent *may* choose new
targets for any number of the copies (according to the rule 502.30
"Storm"), which sounds like he/she also may leave the targets untouched.
Does it mean that the Storm ability can put spells with illegal targets
on the stack? Or does he/she have to mill his/her own library?

Regards,
Arkady.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Arkady Zilberberg <arkadyz1@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Gilded Light resolves, making me untargetable this turn. When Storm
> ability resolves, it puts many copies of the original Brain Freeze -
> copying everything, including target. My opponent *may* choose new
> targets for any number of the copies (according to the rule 502.30
> "Storm"), which sounds like he/she also may leave the targets untouched.

Yes. The Scourge FAQ includes:

* Each storm spell with a target allows you to change the target for
each copy of that spell. You make that choice for each copy
individually.

> Does it mean that the Storm ability can put spells with illegal targets
> on the stack? Or does he/she have to mill his/her own library?

And if your opponent doesn't change any of the targets, they will all be
countered on resolution.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Arkady Zilberberg <arkadyz1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Let's say that at the end of a busy turn my opponent plays Brain Freeze,
>targeting me:

Whee!

>Brain Freeze 1U Instant
> Target player puts the top three cards of his or her library into his or her
> graveyard. / Storm (When you play this spell, copy it for each spell played
> before it this turn. You may choose new targets for the copies.)
>
>The Storm ability triggers while Brain Freeze is played and is put on
>the stack above the original spell. Suppose, I play Gilded Light in
>response to the Storm ability (with no additional copies of Brain Freeze
>on the stack yet):

The Gilded Light will not be counted when the Storm ability resolves; it only
counts spells played before the Brain Freeze was played.

>Gilded Light 1W Instant
> You can't be the target of spells or abilities this turn. / Cycling 2 (*)

....and yes, this is somewhat nasty, as you will no longer be a legal target
at the time the Storm copies all go on the stack.

However: notice that Storm's reminder text (and the actual rule) says "may";
nothing says he HAS TO change the target. He can leave it as a copy of the
original Brain Freeze's target. If he _changes_ the target, he has to check
that the new target will be legal ... but nothing says to check it if he
just leaves it the same on each copy.

(Of course, if he does, the copies will each be countered on resolution, and
later the original will be also, so in that sense the Gilded Light works fine.
But you can't in any way "force him to target himself with the copies".)


>Gilded Light resolves, making me untargetable this turn. When Storm
>ability resolves, it puts many copies of the original Brain Freeze -
>copying everything, including target. My opponent *may* choose new
>targets for any number of the copies (according to the rule 502.30
>"Storm"), which sounds like he/she also may leave the targets untouched.

Right.

>Does it mean that the Storm ability can put spells with illegal targets
>on the stack? Or does he/she have to mill his/her own library?

Yes. No. They aren't being played / announced; they're appearing full-blown on
the stack. No checking of their target is done +unless+ he chooses to
+change+ the target of one or more, at which point 415.7a gets invoked and
tells him it can only change -to- a legal target. There's no rule about
whether the target being changed -from- is legal or not.

Dave
--
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It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
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