Question Question about ryzen boost clock

[flarenial]

I was wondering if instead of doing a straight overclock, which leaves the frequency at the overclocked state, is it possible to just raise the boost clock?

For example, the processor I'm using, r3 2200g, has a base of 3500 and boost of 3700. Is it possible to raise the boost from 3700 to say 3900 or 4.0?

I've already determined that my chip can run at a constant and stable 3.9 ghz, so should be ok for boost clock if it's possible to change the boost clock?

 

[Darkbreeze]

Yes, easily done. Simply overclock to the desired settings, enable Cool N Quiet in the BIOS and then in the control panel/settings power plan options, for whichever plan you are using, go into the advanced settings and set the minimum processor power state to 8% and leave the maximum state at 100%. Also, make sure that the low power C-state settings in the BIOS are enabled or set to Auto.

That will allow the CPU to boost to whatever you have configured while also allowing it to reduce clock speed and voltage when a core is not needed to be at at it's peak load state or full clock speed. That is how I generally configure ALL overclocked systems unless it is a system that will always need to be at full speed, which, is pretty much never.

 

[flarenial]

Thank you very much for the fast reply. I did as you said and changed minimum power state to 8%, cool and quiet is enabled, and set the Global C-state Control to auto, but alas I am still stuck at a static 3.9

If it helps any, my mobo is
ASRock B450M-HDV R4.0 AM4 AMD Promontory

Also, I don't have any multiplier in bios, and the bridge only has an option of 100-103, which if changed from 100, becomes much slower to boot and enter bios so I assumed it would have made the system as a whole unstable, So I instead have the option in bios to set the frequency, which I set to 3.9
Multiplier is just a static x39.
Cpu vid also still seems to stay locked in at 1.4

 

[Darkbreeze]

Ok, it might be because of the board model. That is a very minimalistic motherboard and some options might not be possible. I don't know for sure, as I don't have extensive experience on Ryzen platforms yet, so I've asked somebody who does to chime in.

 

[flarenial]

I appreciate it. Also to note, I just tried the ryzen master utility, and even using it and applying any sort of over or underclock will lock it to the last applied frequency until restarting.

 

[prophet51]

You want to do bclk adjustments, that will raise the base and boost frequency. Increasing bclk to 101 will increase your boost freq by 37mhz, you might want to loosen your ram timings before adjusting bclk to find out how far you can push the cpu though I'm not sure it's possible to be stable above a 103 bclk on ryzen.

 

[DMAN999]

What BIOS version are you using ?

Have you installed the latest Chipset Drivers from AMD ?
https://www.amd.com/en/support/chipsets/amd-socket-am4/b450

If you haven't, then install those and choose the Ryzen Balanced Power Plan and set your minimum Processor state between 5% and 20% (it's up to you which you use)
I have my Minimum set to 10% and my 3700x clocks down to ~ 2.2 GHz when idle.

Also can you take a picture of the screen in your BIOS that allows you to change the CPU frequency (or Ratio) so we can see what settings are available to you.
You can upload it to imgur.com then post the link they provide here.

 

[flarenial]

I've tried raising the bclk, if I raise it even to 101, the post/asrock screen takes much longer to load out, and even makes it take longer to enter bios.

I have updated the chipset, and I even thought to switch it back to system provided balance power, from the ryzen power plan, to see if that was the problem. No dice. I will take a picture of my bios as soon as I can, but may be a while.

Bios version is P2.30-AMD AGESA Combo-AM4 1.0.0.1

According to the asrock site, they recommend not updating bios if everything is running stable, which it is, so I have not bothered trying to update it

 

[prophet51]

Might need to raise voltage slightly and reduce ram speed/loosen timings before adjusting bclk.

 

[Darkbreeze]

They always say that. It limits their liability. It doesn't mean it's in YOUR best interests, it just helps protect them against being liable if something should happen to go wrong. These days, updating the BIOS is just about as normal and expected a procedure as installing updated chipset drivers. Especially on Ryzen.

It's almost NOT optional that you update, and the fact is, you ARE having a problem because the CPU is not behaving normally. There are even significant articles regarding these selfsame problems and the fix in every case is a bios update. Listen to DMAN999, he isn't going to steer you wrong on this.

 

[prophet51]

Unlikey he needs an updated bios, I bricked my bios the other day trying to update(I figured out what I did wrong). Luckily my motherboard has a backup bios. I wouldn't update your bios unless you really need to.

 

[prophet51]

Btw op pstate overclocking is another way to acheive what you want, should be under the amd CBS menu in the bios. Though I think pstate overclocking might be broken on recent agesa.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Unlikey he needs an updated bios, I bricked my bios the other day trying to update(I figured out what I did wrong). Luckily my motherboard has a backup bios. I wouldn't update your bios unless you really need to.

You opinion is noted, and disregarded, because it's irrelevant and is not based on known facts or logic. Just because you screwed up your system, doesn't mean that's what everybody is going to do. In fact, aside from people who largely would be better off letting somebody else entirely do any upgrades or maintenance to their systems, you almost have to TRY to brick a motherboard these days.

So far, your advice has been questionable, at best. Maybe it would be best if you listened and learned rather than trying to force feed your minority opinion on a member trying to get real help.

To be blunt, anybody who makes a claim that a BIOS update being needed on a Ryzen platform is "unlikely", clearly has even less experience on this platform than I do with it and certainly has far less technical experience IN GENERAL. Blanket statements like that make for bad advice, especially if you haven't actually bothered to do any of the work that might lead you to that assumption.

 

[DMAN999]

BIOS version 2.30 should be fine for your CPU.
I really want to see exactly what BIOS options are available to you.

And as you learned raising the BCLK is not usually the way to go with these newer Ryzen CPUs.
The problem with increasing the BCLK is that you are effectively OCing every component connected to your motherboard.
And that makes getting every stable that much harder.
It can work but only on some MBs with certain BIOS versions.
My rig does NOT like BCLK being increased at all.

I should be online most of the day tomorrow (off and on).

 

[Darkbreeze]

Using BCLK to overclock ANY system, is stupid, unless it is the ONLY way to overclock anything on it, and if it IS, then it is probably better to simply leave the $#!& alone and stick with the stock configuration. Certainly you don't need or want to overclock, or mess, with the BCLK on any system that allows unlocked overclocking using standard methods. At least, in general. What a highly experienced overclocker or enthusiast who actually has an expansive grasp of what they are doing, does, is a different story, but that will be at the fine tuning end of things. It will never be a starting point.

 

[flarenial]

https://imgur.com/a/NSaGt9e

View: https://imgur.com/a/NSaGt9e


There are several pictures from the bios, I think it should give all the information needed. I've set everything back to stock except the ram oc (3000mhz sticks, upped to 3200) Also, notice in the pstates picture, that I am unable to adjust frequency or voltage, no matter what settings I have used so far. Also, the last picture is what reads in the OC tweaker tab when I switch the overclock mode to manual.

I will keep the bios update in mind, as I've been keeping it in mind, just haven't been too sure about it

 

[DMAN999]

I'm going to bed now, but you should read through this thread:
https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/voltage-on-ryzen-7-3700x.3500141/?view=date
There is a lot of good info on OCing.

 

[prophet51]

Thank you very much for the fast reply. I did as you said and changed minimum power state to 8%, cool and quiet is enabled, and set the Global C-state Control to auto, but alas I am still stuck at a static 3.9

If it helps any, my mobo is
ASRock B450M-HDV R4.0 AM4 AMD Promontory

Also, I don't have any multiplier in bios, and the bridge only has an option of 100-103, which if changed from 100, becomes much slower to boot and enter bios so I assumed it would have made the system as a whole unstable, So I instead have the option in bios to set the frequency, which I set to 3.9
Multiplier is just a static x39.
Cpu vid also still seems to stay locked in at 1.4

Btw doing multiplier overclocking will also overclock the p1state to 5mhz below whatever overclock you set, that's why your cpu wont downclock. Don't know why it's not downclocking to pstate 2 for you.
To get around this I manually edit the p1state in bios back to stock settings.(which on my 2600 is 2.8ghz.)

 

[prophet51]

You opinion is noted, and disregarded, because it's irrelevant and is not based on known facts or logic. Just because you screwed up your system, doesn't mean that's what everybody is going to do. In fact, aside from people who largely would be better off letting somebody else entirely do any upgrades or maintenance to their systems, you almost have to TRY to brick a motherboard these days.

So far, your advice has been questionable, at best. Maybe it would be best if you listened and learned rather than trying to force feed your minority opinion on a member trying to get real help.

To be blunt, anybody who makes a claim that a BIOS update being needed on a Ryzen platform is "unlikely", clearly has even less experience on this platform than I do with it and certainly has far less technical experience IN GENERAL. Blanket statements like that make for bad advice, especially if you haven't actually bothered to do any of the work that might lead you to that assumption.

My advice is fine, he wants to overclock the boost frequency while still having the cpu downclock/downvolt when idle. The only way to do that on ryzen is either bclk overclocking(I agree it's not the best solution but it is one of his only options) or pstate overclocking - which is broken on my bios anyway and I don't think it has worked properly for a while(it downclocks but doesn't downvolt), to do pstate overclocking he might have to downgrade instead of upgrade his bios which is much trickier..
I could have ignored his question like you and given advice to just tell him to do what he's already doing(multi overclock with cool n quiet is what his already doing didn't you read the opening post?)

 

[Darkbreeze]

Ok prophet. Preach on man.

BCLK overclocking is a poor substitute for finding an actual solution though. More importantly, telling people that updating the BIOS is going to be somehow a problem, is just not realistic. Without BIOS updates, most Ryzen owners would STILL be stuck on 2666mhz memory, maybe 2933mhz if they're lucky or bought a board later in the second cycle. It's just almost a must do part of the process these days. You seem reasonable enough, you should understand that. I can't EXPRESS how many kinds of problems on Ryzen have been solved through merely updating the BIOS, even as recently as last week, when AMD released new microcode.

It's not the old days, so people need to get used to and accept this as being part of the process.

 

[flarenial]

As for the bios update route, What all exactly is in the "AMD all in 1 with VGA driver ver:18.50.16.01_WHQL ? When I first got the machine going, I actually started to do that, but when I ran the installer, it seemed to only be drivers for the apu? Which I didn't want to get as I'm not using the igpu. Does it contain any kind of chipset drivers that isn't covered in the drivers with the ryzen power plan?

 

[DMAN999]

@ flarenial,
I would hold off on updating the BIOS for now.
Versions 3.10 and 3.20 are updates specifically targeting Matisse CPU's by adding updated AGESA versions which are optimized for the new 3000 series CPU's.
I would check on the Asrock support forum and see if anyone with your MB and CPU have tried those 2 newer BIOS versions and if they did were there any problems with them.

I would try Installing the AMD B450 Chipset Drivers:
https://www.amd.com/en/support/chipsets/amd-socket-am4/b450
And set the Minimum Processor State to 10%:

https://imgur.com/kM50aQO

View: https://imgur.com/kM50aQO


Then set your OC like you had it, with the CPU frequency at 3900 MHz and Voltage at 1.4 and see if it will downclock in Windows like it is supposed to.
I did exactly that with my Ryzen 2600 (set to 4 GHz and 1.35v) and it down clocked to 1.55 GHz and 1v when idle and only boosted to 4 GHz under heavy load.

Personally I would shoot for an OC (that might be 3.85 or even 3.8 GHz) that maxes the voltage out at around 1.35v for 24/7 use though.
And I would Not use a voltage higher than 1.3875v.


If that doesn't work you could try using PState OCing as described here:

RyZen Pstate Overclocking, method, calculation and Calculator

Processors use Pstates (power-performance states) of different frequency and voltage for different load conditions: P0 – max power, voltage and frequency P1 – less than P0 P2 – less than P1 . . . This allows lower clock speeds per core when you don’t need it and higher clock speeds...

hardforum.com

And you might want to watch this:

View: https://youtu.be/bzxn1hS7Nq4

 

[flarenial]

I have the chip drivers from the amd site and the ryzen plan. I also tried tried setting the minimum processor state to 10 in both ryzen balance plan and the windows balanced power plan, as previously suggested. Problem is, any method to manually affect the clock speed, so far, has locked in the multiplier and voltage.

Also tried looking at custom pstates in bios, but in any pstate the voltage and frequency are locked and not able to be changed. I will ask about the updates on the asrock forum

 

[drea.drechsler]

Yes, easily done. Simply overclock to the desired settings, enable Cool N Quiet in the BIOS ...

That trick is a bit sketch... probably depends as much on motherboard / BIOS implementation as anything is. If I try it on either of my boards all that happens is the processor gets locked at it's BASE frequency. This was true with my 1700 as currently with my 3700 processor.

Now if I DISABLE cool n' quiet it will achieve the overclock I set manually with the mulitiplier in BIOS. Then it never 'clocks back', of course, but at idle the voltage output from the VRM drops to low levels, effectively reducing power consumption and heat output.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Yeah, there are definitely some quirks with Ryzen that don't work like traditional behaviors for most platforms, so I get it and you're probably right. And, could depend on implementation per manufacturer too I guess.

As for the BIOS, let me clarify. I wasn't suggesting that a BIOS update was the answer for THIS problem, only that making blanket statements that updating the BIOS is not safe and should only be done "if you really need to", was good advice many years ago but isn't so great now AND the fact that these latest BIOS updates on Ryzen have TAKEN AWAY support for some CPU models, rather than ONLY adding support like a normal BIOS update, certainly makes for a confusing bit of nonsense especially since, and unless, they plan to branch off BIOS updates for people who do use those lower tiered CPUs IF the eventuality comes along where maybe a security update needs to be added or support for some newer hardware architectures, and now those people with the lower end CPUs can't get those updates without a forked update path that branches depending on what CPU you have. Ridiculous. They should have simply used ROMs from the start that could handle future additions or found some other way to create space.