Archived from groups: rec.games.mahjong (
More info?)
"Tom Sloper" <tomsterSPAM@sloperamaSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:MoydnclZiJ2p2trfRVn-og@comcast.com...
> Martin Rep wrote:
>
>>> EE EE SS SS WW WW NN
>>>
>> Imho, there is only one way to make hu in COMJ, and that is by claiming
>> Seven Pairs. You can combine it with Half flush (semi pure), so that
>> makes
>> 24+6 = 30 points. I think you cannot combine with All honors, since that
>> mjst be a Pung- or Kong-hand. (May be that the Takeshobo-digest is not
>> correct on this point.)
>
> I think that if someone made this seven pairs hand, no reasonable person
> would deny that it is also All Honors. I would certainly agree that it
> was. Just because the OIRB doesn't mention this obscure possibility
> (making All Honors with three sets of twin pairs, all winds, no dragons)
> doesn't mean that that should be disallowed. It's obviously a very rare
> and valuable hand, and should score commensurately.
I must have had an oversight of Martin's meaning. Let's first clarify some
terms:
Half Flush = Semi Pure (CMCR #49 hun yi se) = Mixed Same - IMJ art. 27.4(4)
Full Flush = All Numerals (CMCR #22 qing yi se) = Pure Same - IMJ art.
27.4(3)
All Honors = All Words (CMCR #11 quan zi) = Pure Same - IMJ art. 27.4(3)
(CMCR # means the element # in Article 9 of CMCR.)
After referring to the CMCR (the original Chinese book), this "very rare and
valuable hand" doesn't seem to value anything more than just Seven Pairs
(excepting any Selfmake etc.).
Surprised!
According to the definition of CMCR, Article 9, Element #11 All Honors ("All
Words" or "quan zi"), the combination must be in the forms of "chow" or
"kong" and "pair". Therefore, there is no way All Honors can be included in
a Seven Pairs hand. Compare to IMJ art. 27.4(3), Pure Same is not required
to be in any specific form, hence it can be included in the above sample
hand (Seven Pairs).
As to what Martin said: "You can combine it with Half flush (semi pure)", I
don't see any reasoning, based purely on CMCR, this can be correct, because
by definition, Half Flush (semi pure) must involve the numeral pieces.
I also found these interesting differences:
CMCR, Article 9: Element #8 All Terminals, Element #11 All Honors, Element
#18 All Terminals And Honors, are required in the forms of "chow" or "kong"
and "pair".
However, Element #22 Full Flush and Element #49 Half Flush both do not
require any specific form. (Hence these can be counted in a Seven Pairs
hand.)
Yet another interesting finding:
Although in the definition portion, i.e., Article 9, Element #11
specifically requires that the pieces are in the forms of "chow" or "kong"
and "pair". In the "sample hands" section included in the Chinese rule book
(page 65, sample 3 - it's on the top of the page), it clearly says that
Seven Pairs can also include All Honors! Only according to this sample hand,
Tom will be correct to include All Honors in a Seven Pairs hand.
But if the explanatory samples (and perhaps some Q&A booklets) can easily
replace the formal rules...
--
Cofa Tsui
www.iMahjong.com
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