Question Question of GPUS.

[Daynhg]

This was going to be a longer thread, asking about power consumption.

But I just wanted to firstly ask about the 4080.

I'm not flush at this time in life, but have been savin'mi'pennies, and am looking at investing in either a new GPU, or who new rig as mine is pretty rubbish.

Question.
• Is the 4080 worth going for? I've read / watched mixed reviews.
• Or should I wait for the 5 series, which I heard as "imminent.". (And does anyone have any news if its launching anytie soon, 2023? please) As I read it was "going to a who new deal / gamechanger, in architecture, and performance. As well as much lower price than the crazed prices now.
• Or is there a 4080ti on the way?

Any help on this question/s, really appreciated.

Depending on feedback. I hope I get some.

Will post the thread on the main question.

Thanks anyone for any help.
Andy.

 

[punkncat]

It is super difficult for me to recommend any consumer support Nvidia and partners on this raping currently going on with the 4xxx series. As you have stated yourself, it is easy to be a choice of almost completely new high end PC OR A graphics card.

We could probably offer more assistance if you would list complete specs of what you are currently using, a general budget and desired use case.

 

[Daynhg]

It is super difficult for me to recommend any consumer support Nvidia and partners on this raping currently going on with the 4xxx series. As you have stated yourself, it is easy to be a choice of almost completely new high end PC OR A graphics card.

We could probably offer more assistance if you would list complete specs of what you are currently using, a general budget and desired use case.

Hi
@punkncat

Thank you so much for the reply.
I fully agree with your terminology of what's being charged for these cards.

My existing system is a cobbled together assortment, of a VERY old GPU. And a mix of low-end parts, I bought a couple years ago, and put in.
Listed below.

• GTX 980ti
• Intel Core i5 11400F
• BE QUIET BK021 Dark Rock 4
• CORSAIR VENGEANCE LPX 64GB 2 x 32GB DDR4 3200 PC4-25600
• Evga Psu 650W Supernova 650 G5 Atx Mod 80+G
• MSI MAG B560M MORTAR WIFI Gaming Motherboard, M-ATX
• GameMax Silent Mid-Tower PC Gaming case
• 2 x SSDs, plus 1 HDD.
• 3 case fans.

I use the PC for mainly gaming, (not competitive, just Steam) Blender, and VR.
But it chugs in VR, when things get to high poly.
And lags in Blender, especially sculpting. I managed to get a sculpt of 3 mil verts, but it was like pulling teeth.

I was looking for the best card I could afford to replace the 980ti, (which I have to say has been utterly incredible for an 8-year-old card.) But the rest of my rig is struggling.
I looked on "part picker" and it said a 4000 series would fit my mobo, but I would need an 850 (or more) PSU.

As said above, my initial thought was to just put a much better GPU, and higher PSU in what I already have.

But then I thought, about the Ram, and the CPU, both of which are not great.
And instead upgrade to a whole new PC, including the new GPU.
I would only be using the same drives, (except include a new 2tb m.2 SSD.
But would loose everything else.

I looked (again) on Part picker, and not having anything definite in mind. But was looking at something like this, below..

•• Intel Core i9-12900K 3.2 GHz 16-Core Processor
Or an..
•• Intel® Core™ i7-13700K Desktop Processor 16 cores.
I like the 1300, but saw that the 1300 would need an update on the Mother board bios. And I'll be honest I've never done this.
And don't know if it's possible on a new build.
I could download the bios update for the new motherboard onto a USB thumb drive on my existing PC. But would the new PC boot up using the 1300 CPU, if the mobo needed an update to work? to enable me to update it? <- if that makes sense.

•• MSI MAG Z690 TOMAHAWK WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard

•• Be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4 50.5 CFM CPU Cooler
I've never used water cooling, so was going to stick with air. But would not rule water out, if better.

•• Corsair DOMINATOR PLATINUM RGB DDR5 64GB (2x32GB) 5200MHz C40 Intel Optimised Desktop Memory
or.
•• Corsair DOMINATOR PLATINUM RGB DDR5 64GB (4x16GB) 6400MHz C32
Not sure which would be better.

•• Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive

•• Be quiet! Pure Base 500DX ATX Mid Tower Case
I just want as quiet, and affordable case as possible. I'm not at all bothered what it looks like.

•• Cooler Master MWE Gold 850 - V2 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply
Or equivalent 850 fully modular. As there are none of these in stock. But again I would like to keep it around the £100 or so mark, and not pay £250 for a PSU.

•• Possibly a couple more case fans.

And then the GPU.
Something like.

•• MSI GAMING X TRIO GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB Video Card.

But none of this is set in stone, its been years since I built the last PC.

The 3 ½ big questions would be.

1 ♦ Are there any alternatives that would be suggested, to replace any of the above listed components.
The only stipulation as well as a quiet case, would be, I really would like Bluetooth on whatever Motherboard, as I find dongles never work for me.

2 ♦ The 4080 question.
Is it worth going for one, or should I wait for the 5000 series? I have waited a long time to get a new PC, and on my budget, I really would not want to go for an extortionate 4080, and the in 3 months, they launch the 5080 with a lower price tag, and a much better performance.
Or even a 4080ti.
I can wait I'm in no real hurry. this PC plays most games, and I can plod along in Blender for now.

2 ½ ♦ Would an 850 PSU be enough to power the above rig, or the likes.

And finally question 3. ♦
And I don't want to sound like scrooge, unfortunately as much as I want/need a new PC, with the price of energy at this time.
This is a question I have no clue about.
I am unemployed ATM, so I get up switch the PC on, and leave it on all day. Sometimes I'm on it, playing, or modelling, or just surfing.
Other times its just idling.
Would this new kit, going from a 650 PSU, to an 850 <(if an 850 is powerful enough.) As well as the "power draw" of the higher spec CPU, and GPU, make a huge dent in the energy used?
With all of our electricity bills through the roof ATM, would this massively impact the energy consumption further. Or would it just be slight?

I hope this doesn't sound too "penny pinching." I'm not usually, I just really wondered.

I hope I haven't put too much info here, about speck, and questions.
Any, and all help really appreciated.

Thank you so much

Best.
Andy.

 

[hotaru.hino]

• Is the 4080 worth going for? I've read / watched mixed reviews.

That's a question only you can answer. I didn't think it was worth it. Quite a few people didn't think it was worth it. But a lot of people thought it was worth it.

• Or should I wait for the 5 series, which I heard as "imminent.". (And does anyone have any news if its launching anytie soon, 2023? please) As I read it was "going to a who new deal / gamechanger, in architecture, and performance. As well as much lower price than the crazed prices now.

Graphics card generations tend to be spaced about 18-24 months apart. We're in month 5 of the current one. The RTX 50 series is nowhere near imminent.

Also nobody should be that dumb any more to announce the next gen product so close to or just after the launch of the current one. See The Osborne Effect

• Or is there a 4080ti on the way?

If there is, you may as well get a 4090 since the price points between the 4080 and 4090 can overlap.

In any case, here's another question to ask: why do you need a 4080? Coming from a 980 Ti, even say a 4060 would be a pretty significant upgrade at this point.

 

[punkncat]

Honestly don't feel like the base aspect of your system is bad or terribly outdated. 11th gen wasn't received well as the last in a long long line of refreshes. By many reviewers the 11600K was the best value of the lineup, but is only marginally faster than the 11400F you already have. I tend to agree with your assessment that IF you were going to do anything with those base components, going all new would be better.

Your 980ti should still be a strong card for 1080/60 on mid-high settings. Asking more than that of it is surely questionable.

I don't want to seem like I am getting in your financial business aside from so much that you offered the information. It would be very hard of me to recommend you go out and purchase a $1200+ graphics card and what would surely be +$100 PSU to support it, however, the major shortcoming of your system seems to me to be the current graphics card. You have to decide how to manage your own situation, so it's not for us to say.....so with that, I would probably update the graphics card and power supply (if you are stuck on the 4080) now, and then update your base hardware later.

Just for information's sake, I run a 3070 with an 11900K at 1440/144. I typically get ~90-110 FPS on highest settings and without using RT. I have to utilize the resolution scalers to get any manner of decent perf with RT on. My GPU stays at 99-100% while gaming and the CPU is almost always under ~5% utilization other than load in. Even with the 11400, there is still room for a better graphics card on that CPU.

 

[Daynhg]

Honestly don't feel like the base aspect of your system is bad or terribly outdated. 11th gen wasn't received well as the last in a long long line of refreshes. By many reviewers the 11600K was the best value of the lineup, but is only marginally faster than the 11400F you already have. I tend to agree with your assessment that IF you were going to do anything with those base components, going all new would be better.

Your 980ti should still be a strong card for 1080/60 on mid-high settings. Asking more than that of it is surely questionable.

I don't want to seem like I am getting in your financial business aside from so much that you offered the information. It would be very hard of me to recommend you go out and purchase a $1200+ graphics card and what would surely be +$100 PSU to support it, however, the major shortcoming of your system seems to me to be the current graphics card. You have to decide how to manage your own situation, so it's not for us to say.....so with that, I would probably update the graphics card and power supply (if you are stuck on the 4080) now, and then update your base hardware later.

Just for information's sake, I run a 3070 with an 11900K at 1440/144. I typically get ~90-110 FPS on highest settings and without using RT. I have to utilize the resolution scalers to get any manner of decent perf with RT on. My GPU stays at 99-100% while gaming and the CPU is almost always under ~5% utilization other than load in. Even with the 11400, there is still room for a better graphics card on that CPU.

That's a question only you can answer. I didn't think it was worth it. Quite a few people didn't think it was worth it. But a lot of people thought it was worth it.


Graphics card generations tend to be spaced about 18-24 months apart. We're in month 5 of the current one. The RTX 50 series is nowhere near imminent.

Also nobody should be that dumb any more to announce the next gen product so close to or just after the launch of the current one. See The Osborne Effect


If there is, you may as well get a 4090 since the price points between the 4080 and 4090 can overlap.

In any case, here's another question to ask: why do you need a 4080? Coming from a 980 Ti, even say a 4060 would be a pretty significant upgrade at this point.

Thank you hotaru.hino
For you reply, and help.

Your thought s on the 4080 are basically what I saw online. Some great, others trashed it. But then I saw some of the haters of it, change their minds.

You would be surprised how many sites, and YT'ers, are saying the 5000 series is literally imminent, after Nvidia "unreleased" the 12gb 4080.

And TBH the difference between the 4080 price, and the 4090 is utterly huge.

So, I guess it's all about research, and taking the plunge.
Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Daynhg]

Honestly don't feel like the base aspect of your system is bad or terribly outdated. 11th gen wasn't received well as the last in a long long line of refreshes. By many reviewers the 11600K was the best value of the lineup, but is only marginally faster than the 11400F you already have. I tend to agree with your assessment that IF you were going to do anything with those base components, going all new would be better.

Your 980ti should still be a strong card for 1080/60 on mid-high settings. Asking more than that of it is surely questionable.

I don't want to seem like I am getting in your financial business aside from so much that you offered the information. It would be very hard of me to recommend you go out and purchase a $1200+ graphics card and what would surely be +$100 PSU to support it, however, the major shortcoming of your system seems to me to be the current graphics card. You have to decide how to manage your own situation, so it's not for us to say.....so with that, I would probably update the graphics card and power supply (if you are stuck on the 4080) now, and then update your base hardware later.

Just for information's sake, I run a 3070 with an 11900K at 1440/144. I typically get ~90-110 FPS on highest settings and without using RT. I have to utilize the resolution scalers to get any manner of decent perf with RT on. My GPU stays at 99-100% while gaming and the CPU is almost always under ~5% utilization other than load in. Even with the 11400, there is still room for a better graphics card on that CPU.

Thank you for the feedback punkncat


Forgive me, I was a little confused at your reply.

In paragraph 1, you said it would be better to replace all the kit.

In paragraph 3, to just replace the GPU, and PSU.


4 last quick Questions.

I hope you dont mind.

1-- If I did keep using the existing CPU, Ram, mobo, etc. but just added a 4080, plus higher PSU, Would I see a major difference in performance?
I was worried my CPU and low clock Ram, would impact on the GPU performance significantly.
But if this is not the case, this would be a good way to go for now?

2-- I didn't really understand what you meant about a 1300-pound GPU, and a £100 PSU?
So, do you think I should invest in a better, more expensive PSU? or would the one listed do the job?
As it gets great reviews on amazon.

3-- Would an 850 PSU be high enough to powers both this system, and the newer kit when purchased. or would I ned a 1000. WHich I really dont want to go for if an 850 would be powerful enough.

And lastly,
4-- Does an 850 PSU, combined with a 4xxx series, use a LOT more power, as in electricity, or is it pretty samey as the 650 PSU, and the 980TI?


Thank you again for any help.

 

[hotaru.hino]

You would be surprised how many sites, and YT'ers, are saying the 5000 series is literally imminent, after Nvidia "unreleased" the 12gb 4080.

Most of these sites and Youtubers feed off rumor mills for the views. The problem with reporting on the rumor mill is you can claim NVIDIA is rumored to be making toilet paper because they had an "inside source" and if it turns out to be false, well, it was a rumor, so you shouldn't have taken it seriously anyway.

NVIDIA doesn't care as long as it's not outright slander because it generates hype.

And TBH the difference between the 4080 price, and the 4090 is utterly huge.

MSI RTX 4090 Gaming Trio - $1599
ASUS RTX 4080 ROG Strix - $1599

Any 4080 Ti is going to be hard sell because the 4090 pricing is close enough at some points unless it outright replaces the 4080.

I mean yes, there are cheaper RTX 4080s, but when both cards can be found at the same price, slotting something in between doesn't really make sense.

 

[punkncat]

Thank you for the feedback punkncat


Forgive me, I was a little confused at your reply.

In paragraph 1, you said it would be better to replace all the kit.

In paragraph 3, to just replace the GPU, and PSU.


4 last quick Questions.

I hope you dont mind.

1-- If I did keep using the existing CPU, Ram, mobo, etc. but just added a 4080, plus higher PSU, Would I see a major difference in performance?
I was worried my CPU and low clock Ram, would impact on the GPU performance significantly.
But if this is not the case, this would be a good way to go for now?

2-- I didn't really understand what you meant about a 1300-pound GPU, and a £100 PSU?
So, do you think I should invest in a better, more expensive PSU? or would the one listed do the job?
As it gets great reviews on amazon.

3-- Would an 850 PSU be high enough to powers both this system, and the newer kit when purchased. or would I ned a 1000. WHich I really dont want to go for if an 850 would be powerful enough.

And lastly,
4-- Does an 850 PSU, combined with a 4xxx series, use a LOT more power, as in electricity, or is it pretty samey as the 650 PSU, and the 980TI?


Thank you again for any help.

I meant so much as, there is zero sensible upgrade path for your current base hardware. You already have a lot of RAM, and spending towards 11th gen CPU is not really economical unless you happen across something nearly free. Even then, the differences for most situations between what you have now (the 11400F) and an 11900K aren't as big as even if you went with a 13th gen i5.

The part holding you back now in gaming is for sure that 980ti, making assumptions about our monitor/resolution/framerate. IF you were to build an entirely new system (aside from graphics) then the shortcoming of that card is only going to amplify.

I think an 850 should be fine, but would be worth checking out on a power supply calculator. I like Outervision.

Honestly, the 4080 itself will pull more power alone than about 3/4 of your existing load on current system. That card pulls 320W according to Nvidia and I have read unconfirmed reports of well more than that. I would expect to see this on your power bill, particularly if you also update to the above mentioned hardware.

 

[Eximo]

980Ti -> 1080 -> 2070 -> 3060 12GB

If you wanted better architecture/performance I would say the RTX3060 12GB is probably where you should start. No new PSU, no real need for a new CPU and you can bide your time for GPU prices to become more reasonable.

That said the upcoming RTX 4070 is likely to be the best bang for the buck from Nvidia, but will be like $700. Supposedly still a 12GB card which will double your VRAM.

11400 is a good mid-range CPU. It wasn't amazing compared to 10th gen CPUs, a very minor improvement, and we didn't see real change until 12th gen. 11700K is the max I would go for with 11th gen. The i9 just has slightly higher clocks.

Well, this is an odd situation. The 4080 and 4090 this time around are not the same GPU. There is room for a 4090Ti because they've left a lot of cores off the 4090. But the 4080 is almost maxed out, so there might be a RTX ADA Quadro with all the cores, but even then they would be so close it isn't likely. Considering the mobile 4090 is essentially a 4080 in core and memory, they must have it down pretty well.

 

[Daynhg]

Most of these sites and Youtubers feed off rumor mills for the views. The problem with reporting on the rumor mill is you can claim NVIDIA is rumored to be making toilet paper because they had an "inside source" and if it turns out to be false, well, it was a rumor, so you shouldn't have taken it seriously anyway.

NVIDIA doesn't care as long as it's not outright slander because it generates hype.


MSI RTX 4090 Gaming Trio - $1599
ASUS RTX 4080 ROG Strix - $1599

Any 4080 Ti is going to be hard sell because the 4090 pricing is close enough at some points unless it outright replaces the 4080.

I mean yes, there are cheaper RTX 4080s, but when both cards can be found at the same price, slotting something in between doesn't really make sense.

Thank you, hotaru.hino

Yes, you have really hit the nail on the head with YouTube and clickbait. But it was worth asking the question, I think.

I have to admit I was surprised to see the price of 4090's I was expecting them to be 2k+.
But the MSI 3080 here in the UK is around 1300, whereas the 4090 is approx. 1600.

So that was a not what I was expecting.
Thanks.

 

[Daynhg]

I meant so much as, there is zero sensible upgrade path for your current base hardware. You already have a lot of RAM, and spending towards 11th gen CPU is not really economical unless you happen across something nearly free. Even then, the differences for most situations between what you have now (the 11400F) and an 11900K aren't as big as even if you went with a 13th gen i5.

The part holding you back now in gaming is for sure that 980ti, making assumptions about our monitor/resolution/framerate. IF you were to build an entirely new system (aside from graphics) then the shortcoming of that card is only going to amplify.

I think an 850 should be fine, but would be worth checking out on a power supply calculator. I like Outervision.

Honestly, the 4080 itself will pull more power alone than about 3/4 of your existing load on current system. That card pulls 320W according to Nvidia and I have read unconfirmed reports of well more than that. I would expect to see this on your power bill, particularly if you also update to the above mentioned hardware.

Thank you so much for the feedback on not upgrading, punkncat

Unless I went significantly higher. It's actually good to know that my existing kit, albeit not great, is not as bad as I thought.

The temptation to go for a big card is there. But after your comments about how much power it draws, not to mention the PSU as well, I think it prudent to look lower.
And combined with what Eximo put, maybe worth exploring a cheaper, in both card, and power usage option.

If viable.

I really appreciate the help.

 

[Daynhg]

980Ti -> 1080 -> 2070 -> 3060 12GB

If you wanted better architecture/performance I would say the RTX3060 12GB is probably where you should start. No new PSU, no real need for a new CPU and you can bide your time for GPU prices to become more reasonable.

That said the upcoming RTX 4070 is likely to be the best bang for the buck from Nvidia, but will be like $700. Supposedly still a 12GB card which will double your VRAM.

11400 is a good mid-range CPU. It wasn't amazing compared to 10th gen CPUs, a very minor improvement, and we didn't see real change until 12th gen. 11700K is the max I would go for with 11th gen. The i9 just has slightly higher clocks.

Well, this is an odd situation. The 4080 and 4090 this time around are not the same GPU. There is room for a 4090Ti because they've left a lot of cores off the 4090. But the 4080 is almost maxed out, so there might be a RTX ADA Quadro with all the cores, but even then they would be so close it isn't likely. Considering the mobile 4090 is essentially a 4080 in core and memory, they must have it down pretty well.

Hi Eximo

Thank you so much for the information, and help.

You raised some really great points.
As well as what you said about the 4090ti, so that could be maybe down the road. But for now.. what you said about going a different rout⤵

Combined with what the other excellent guys have been saying. And the cost of not only the card, which I was prepared to stretch to. But seems overkill from what I have now.
As well as putting it into my existing hardware.

I had a look, as best I could, on a site that punkncat suggested "outervision."

Thinking, if I went for a 4070ti, with my existing rig. (below)--(as you suggested, but the ti version.)

• RTX 4070ti <--- This GPU in place of the 980ti
• And then the rest leave.
• Intel Core i5 11400F
• BE QUIET BK021 Dark Rock 4
• CORSAIR VENGEANCE LPX 64GB 2 x 32GB DDR4 3200 PC4-25600
• Evga Psu 650W Supernova 650 G5 Atx Mod 80+G
• MSI MAG B560M MORTAR WIFI Gaming Motherboard, M-ATX
• GameMax Silent Mid-Tower PC Gaming case
• 2 x SSDs, plus 1 HDD.
• 3 case fans.

Am I correct in assuming my existing "Evga Psu 650W Supernova 650 G5 Atx Mod 80+G"
Would be powerful enough to run this PC, with the 4070ti?

This would seem to solve a lot of problems, again from what Punkncat said about the GPU being the sticking point, in what I need Gaming / Blender / and some VR.
While yor suggestion of a 4070(ti) not shooting my electricity bill SkyHigh?

I just did a Googe search and saw for the 3 cards. 4080 / 470ti / and 980ti.
Pasted below.

1.
"According to Nvidia's official information, the RTX 4080 needs at least a 750W unit to run properly. Nvidia states in its specs chart that the GPU alone uses up to 320W of power. Compared with other GPUs"

2.
"In addition to running faster than the GeForce RTX 3090 Ti, the GeForce RTX 4070 Ti uses 43% less power on average while gaming: just 226W, versus the 3090 Ti's 398W"

3.
"Being a dual-slot card, the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 Ti draws power from 1x 6-pin + 1x 8-pin power connector, with power draw rated at 250 W maximum. "


So, from my novice knowledge in this area, it looks like the 4070ti doesn't use anywhere near the 4080. And not a great deal more power than the 980ti, is this correct?

So, in conclusion.
The 2 final questions (I promise) are.

1- Will the 4070ti run in my existing rig, with the existing 650 PSU.
And.

2- And if so, Is it reasonable to assume the electricity bill,- (going from the Google data above, this is a genuine question, as I don't know) -with a 4070ti fitted, would be pretty much what it running cost is now, with the existing 980ti? Maybe slightly more?


I will leave you guys in peace after these two questions.
Any help on there, again really appreciated, as this if these two points are correct could solve a lot of things.

Thank you.

 

[Eximo]

4070Ti stock is a nominal 285W card. But it does have the potential to spike higher than that for brief periods. So the recommendation is a high quality 750W.


You can try running it on the 650W, it is good you have a locked CPU, so that won't draw that much.

35W extra over your existing card isn't a huge stretch, but it is the power spikes that 30 and 40 series cards that are concerning. You can always power limit the GPU a little if you want. Running it at 90% power would likely keep you within a few percent of its total capability.

It would be like running another light bulb, so you probably wouldn't notice on your power bill.

You just need to make sure you have enough PCIe 8-pin connectors to connect to the adapter the card will come with. And double check on size, most the cards have overkill coolers on them. (I recall seeing one review where they couldn't get the card to break 63C, basically had the 4080 cooler on it)

 

[Daynhg]

Thank so much Eximo, punkncat, and hotaru.hino

It was, and is very much appreciated.

Regards.
Andy.