Questions about 144hz monitors

salawow

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Hello, feel free to skip to questions if you don't feel like reading. :)

Short story, i currently have a 5 years old acer x223w monitor and want something bigger/better. Initially i wanted a 27", so i tried an asus vx279q IPS monitor. Didn't like that "ips glow" thing, and blacks were not dark enough to my taste. Then i tried a benq gw2760hs. Colors and blacks were perfect, but the ghosting in game was horrible and the motion blur when moving makes me dizzy. So i thought why not stay with a TN, i like how my current monitor looks like after all. However, the only 27" TN choice in my price range is the benq RL2755hm, but i've read alot of negative comments about it being a bad monitor being wrapped in golden adveritsement.

So now i'm considering a 24" 144hz monitor instead, since everyone seem to agree about how great it is for gaming. However, i only have a single gtx 970 graphic card, so playing at a constant 144fps is not possible, i even strugle to get a constant 60fps in some games. And unfortunately, with my budget i can't afford any g-sync monitor.

So, questions:

1- Playing a game at 60fps on a 144hz monitor, will it look worst or better then playing at 60fps on a 60hz monitor ?

2- If the question 1 answer is "worst", can i instead easily change the monitor frequency between each games ? (like setting the screen to 70hz while playing a game that i can't get more than 70fps, then setting it back to 144 to play a less GPU intensive game)

3- Is there less ghosting on a 144hz monitor compared to a 60hz TN ?

4- does all games support 144hz ?

5- will i see a difference between 60 and 144hz only in games, or on everything else ?

6- Is it really a good idea to buy a 144hz monitor considering that i probably won't be able to get more than 80fps in most games ?

thanks :)

 
Solution
Hi,
You need to understand how VSYNC works.

If you turn VSYNC OFF then you get screen tearing but the refresh rate of the monitor doesn't matter too much.

If you turn VSYNC ON (to avoid screen tear) but can't output 144FPS minimum then you get a STUTTERING issue since you end up with different frame times.

Solutions:

1) VSYNC - force on "Half Adaptive VSYNC" from the NVidia Control Panel-> Manage 3D settings-> "add game" (enable and save)

This will then force to 72FPS and if you still can't output that it turns VSYNC OFF automatically (thus screen tearing but no stuttering from VSYNC mismatch).

2) VSYNC OFF:
Screen tear but that's it.

Other:
If you aren't going to be regularly gaming much above 60FPS then why even bother with a...
1. If it is a steady 60 fps, then it would look the same. Below 60 fps it will look the same. Above 60 fps there will be no tearing.
2. You can't change the frequency per game. You wouldn't need to really.
3. No. Ghosting occurs when the panel can't change colors fast enough between frames. a 60 fps panel has plenty of time between frames to not ghost, especially since response time is down to 1ms in most TN panels. You could argue that there is more ghosting at 144hz. But there would be so little ghosting as to be invisible for the most part.
4. Yes.
5. The mouse moves very smooth across the screen at 144hz.
6. Depends. If you value speed over anything else then yes. However a good IPS panel, especially after calibration produces colors like no ones business. The monitor you had (vx279q) is TERRIBLE out of the box. I calibrated one for a friend and it was 1000times better looking. A dell ultrasharp comes pretty well calibrated out of the box and most of the IPS issues are non exsistant.
 
Hi,
You need to understand how VSYNC works.

If you turn VSYNC OFF then you get screen tearing but the refresh rate of the monitor doesn't matter too much.

If you turn VSYNC ON (to avoid screen tear) but can't output 144FPS minimum then you get a STUTTERING issue since you end up with different frame times.

Solutions:

1) VSYNC - force on "Half Adaptive VSYNC" from the NVidia Control Panel-> Manage 3D settings-> "add game" (enable and save)

This will then force to 72FPS and if you still can't output that it turns VSYNC OFF automatically (thus screen tearing but no stuttering from VSYNC mismatch).

2) VSYNC OFF:
Screen tear but that's it.

Other:
If you aren't going to be regularly gaming much above 60FPS then why even bother with a 144Hz panel?
 
Solution

salawow

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Thanks for the answers, very informative :)

I think i will keep trying to find a 60hz monitor then. About the vx279q i tried, i spent some time trying to calibrate it, but the problem of black being not dark enough was always present, i assumed all the IPS panel were like that. (unfortunately i didn't even try gaming on it so i couldnt see if there was any ghosting).

After my horrible ghosting experience of the benq gw2760hs, and after reading so many people stating that only TN panels are fast enough for gaming, i stopped considering anything other than TN.

I'll just round up what i think i understood so far about difference between panels, would you please tell me if i got something wrong ?

IPS: Very good colors, some ghosting due to average response time, no dark blacks.
VA: Good colors, dark blacks, horrible ghosting
TN: Bad colors, average blacks, good response time, no ghosting.

Considering that my priorities are 1-no ghosting and 2-deep blacks as much as possible, and that 144hz is a waste since i won't play at much more than 60fps, would my best bet be a 60hz TN panel ?

 


Close.
1) Higher response times does mean ghosting, however you still need a TN panel with low response time (i.e. 2ms). There are also newer IPS panels with 4ms response time though those are expensive (like the Acer Predator).

There are TN panels with higher response times as well. See pcpartpicker list at bottom.

2) TN also has issues with viewing angles which also affects color more near the edges.

3) *I'm not aware of a general issue with the BLACK LEVEL. The spec is TCR (True Contrast Ratio) and most panels are 1000:1 for desktop monitors. There is another term usually used which is DCR but that's confusing and often pointless nor is it panel specific either.

4) ULMB exists for some monitors which strobes the backlight and reduce motion blur even further. So an IPS panel with higher response can have similar ghosting to a TN panel with lower response that isn't using ULMB (don't ask me to quite numbers... that's simply not possible since manufacturer response time numbers don't always compare.)

ULMB does make the monitor less bright which should be fine for a darker room but I've not tested it myself.

Final point:
You seem to be very picky. Not saying that is a bad thing, however it does make recommending a particular monitor quite difficult. I'll take a small amount of ghosting to get better colors but apparently you are the reverse.

If I start HERE: http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/monitor/

If you can find an IPS 5ms monitor with ULMB for a reasonable price that may be worth considering. Unfortunately I just have no more time to help.
 
I'm only linking this so you can read about blur reduction:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/motion_blur.htm

*It's worth noting that the same monitor at 144Hz has much less motion blur than at 60Hz even with response time being equal.

But then 144Hz is more expensive and you have to compensate for VSYNC (like Half Adaptive) if that's an issue (screen tearing).

**Again, to be clear even if you have a 144Hz panel and force a sync to 72FPS (the GPU output) the actual image is being updated TWICE per frame. This still reduces motion blur. Your GPU is outputting 72FPS but your monitor always updates 144X per second no matter what.
 
Calibrating a monitor by eye is nearly impossible. I use a datacolor spyder 3. It's hard to justify spending a 100 dollars on a calibration tool but the difference it makes is mind boggling. I just charge my friends 10 dollars to calibrate their monitors. made most of the investment back.
 

salawow

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well, yeah i'm picky.. with a low budget, which is not good at all, haha. But maybe it could be easier to recommand a monitor to me by comparing it to my current monitor.

So here's the monitor i have had for the last 5 years, linking it for the specs. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009145

5 years ago, i walked into a store, looked at a random monitor, noticed it was on sale, didn't ask any question, bought it, and enjoyed it. I always liked it, the colors looks good, the blacks are dark enough for my taste. I've never been annoyed by any ghosting either. I want to change now because i want something bigger, because i want 1080p instead of 1680*1050, and because there are some stains on i'm not able to clean up. (5 years of eating in front of my computer is not a good thing).

So basically, if i could have the same monitor in 27" and 1080p instead, i would be happy.

Based on that, is there any particular monitor you would recommand ?

Or maybe i've just been extremely lucky 5 years ago and bought the perfect monitor, and won't be able to find something similar now at a price i'm willing to pay ?