Questions about Supermicro X8STi

[imrazor]

I was considering picking up one of these used, and adding a supercheap Xeon L5638 or E5645 for a bargian basement VM server. I don't have much experience with server/workstation boards, so I began investigating. Here are the specs:

http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon3000/X58/X8STi.cfm


Taking a closer look at the board raised a few questions. Here's a closeup of the board:

http://sishardware.com/imgs/a/a/c/v/x/supermicro_x8sti_computer_server_board___motherboard_1_lgw.jpg

While the specs state that the board has a PCIe x16 v2.0 slot, the slot looks unusually long. Is it really suitable for a video card? Would a video card need to be physically modified? Would a standard ATX power supply work with it? The cooler mounting holes look a little small too; would an Arctic Freezer Pro 7 work with this? Does it need a backplate on the CPU?

 

[bambiboom]

I was considering picking up one of these used, and adding a supercheap Xeon L5638 or E5645 for a bargian basement VM server. I don't have much experience with server/workstation boards, so I began investigating. Here are the specs:

http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon3000/X58/X8STi.cfm


Taking a closer look at the board raised a few questions. Here's a closeup of the board:

http://sishardware.com/imgs/a/a/c/v/x/supermicro_x8sti_computer_server_board___motherboard_1_lgw.jpg

While the specs state that the board has a PCIe x16 v2.0 slot, the slot looks unusually long. Is it really suitable for a video card? Would a video card need to be physically modified? Would a standard ATX power supply work with it? The cooler mounting holes look a little small too; would an Arctic Freezer Pro 7 work with this? Does it need a backplate on the CPU?

imrazor,

The Supermicro X8STi has a lot of potential as a VM server. It uses one of the best Xeon series, the LGA1366 which have some fast and reliable 4 and 6-core CPU's that today are amazingly inexpensive. CPU"s that cost $1,500 in 2010 are $80 now. I upgraded a Dell Precision T3500 in December and made a chart of the potential CPU's with Passmark CPU scores and Ebay prices:

LGA1366 CPU’s:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Xeon_microprocessors

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php

http://ark.intel.com/products

4-Core: Passmark CPU Average Ebay_12.13.15

_W-3500 series / 45nm / 8MB cache / 130W / 24GB > 800,1066 / HT

I. W3520
II. W3530 2.8 / 3.06GHz _5372 [5587 actual] _$11 > $65
III. W3540 2.93 / 3.2 _5492
IV. W3550 3.06 / 3.33 _5761
V. W3565 3.2 / 3.46 _6083
VI. W3570 3.2 / 3.46 _6261 _$25 > $50
VII. W3580 3.33 / 3.6 _6586 _$50 > $95

_X-5500 series (8MB cache / 45nm / 95W_ 2009)

I. X5550 2.67 / 3.06 _5422
II. X5560 2.8 / 3.2 _5442
III. X5570 2.93 / 3/33 _5638 _$14 > $45
IV. X5590 3.33 / 3.6 _9216 _$37 >

_W-5500 series (8MB cache / 45nm / 95W_ 2009)

I. W5580 3.2 / 3.46 (130W) _5718 _$21 > $50
II. W5590 3.33 / 3.6 _6314 _$32 > $200

_X-5600 series 32nm/ 8MB/ 95W_ 2011)

I. X5647 2.93 / 3.2 _5996
II. X5667 3.07 / 3.46 _4655 _$16 > $40
III. X5672 3.2 / 3.6 _5148 _$45 > $87
IV. X5677 3.46 / 3.73 (130W)_7046 _$33 > $80
V. X5687 3.6 / 3.86 _7217 _$70 > $130

6-Core

_X-5600 series 32nm / 12MB / 95W_2011)

I.- X5660 2.87 / 3.2 _7587 _$68 > [$100] > $180
II. X5670 2.93 / 3.33 _ 8130 _ $50 > $100
II.- X5675 3.07 / 3.46 _8584 _$78 > [$112] > $215
III. -X5680 3.33 / 3.6 (130W) _9011 _$113> [$140] > $274
IV. -X5690 3.47 / 3.73 (2011) _9216 _$182 >[$220] > $291

_W-3600 series / 32nm / 12MB / 130W > 24GB >

I. W3670 3.2 / 3.46 (1066) _6261 _$90 > $160
II. W3680 3.33 / 3.6 (1333) _9398 _$140 > $208
III. W3690 3.47 / 3.73 _9703 _$160 > $400

Many current CPU coolers are avaialbe for the LGA1366

The X8STi is full ATX form factor and, I'd recommend a mid or full tower case with 8 drive bays.

The W-Series were made for single CPU use and X-Series are for dual CPU systems, but can be used as single CPU's I rehabilitated the T3500 for visualization use and chose an X5677 4-core (3.47 /3.73) for $60 as it was a more modern 32nm design. For VM use, I'd suggest A 6-core X5670 for about $70-90.

The Supermicro X8STi has integrated graphics which may or may not sufficient for your use, but it appears to have a PCI 2.0 x16 slot and if the configuration of the slot (it might have to be mounted with the bracket removed) with the and the budget supports it, you might consider a used GTX 650 ti or similar so the integrated video system doesn't use the CPU and system RAM.

The board supports 24GB of DDR3-1333 and I recommend using 24GB of PC3-10600E which is ECC unbuffered. There is piles of it on Ebay. For the T3500 project I bought 8GB (4X 2GB) for $43. For another LGA1366 project, a 12-core Precision T5500 I bought 48GB (6X4GB + 3X8GB) for about $140. LGA1366 uses the X59 chipset which is triple channel so the best results use 3X of each choice- two sets of three identical modules. In my T3500 I have 6X2GB Samsung single rank and the T5500 has 6X4GB Samsung for CPU1 and 3X8GB Samsung for CPU2.

Performance using a Supermicro X8STi can be very good. On Passmark, there are 8 systems tested:

CPU:

8735 (i7-980X @ 3.6GHz)
5668 (Xeon X5560)
5244 (i7-920)

3D:

6573 (Radeon HD 7970)
2559 (GTX 560)

The i7-980X is 6-core @ 3.33 /3.6GHz and appears to be the i7 version of the Xeon W3680 and is unlocked so it may be overclocked. However, these are expensive- about $250 and I don't recommend overclocking fro a server, not do I think it's necessary. A W3680 cost about $160 but an X5670 (6-core 2.9 /3.33) is more in the $80 range.

Yes, very good potential for a very reasonable price given the performance possibilities.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

Modeling:

1. HP z420 (2015) > Xeon E5-1660 v2 (6-core @ 3.7 / 4.0GHz) > 32GB DDR3 1866 ECC RAM > Quadro K4200 (4GB) > Intel 730 480GB (9SSDSC2BP480G4R5) > Western Digital Black WD1003FZEX 1TB> M-Audio 192 sound card > 600W PSU> > Windows 7 Professional 64-bit > Logitech z2300 speakers > 2X Dell Ultrasharp U2715H (2560 X 1440)>
[ Passmark Rating = 5064 > CPU= 13989 / 2D= 819 / 3D= 4596 / Mem= 2772 / Disk= 4555] [Cinebench R15 > CPU = 1014 OpenGL= 126.59 FPS] 7.8.15

Rendering:

2. Dell Precision T5500 (2011) (Revised) > 2X Xeon X5680 (6 -core @ 3.33 / 3.6GHz), 48GB DDR3 1333 ECC Reg. > Quadro K2200 (4GB ) > PERC H310 / Samsung 840 250GB / WD RE4 Enterprise 1TB > M-Audio 192 sound card > Logitech z313 > 875W PSU > Windows 7 Professional 64> HP 2711x (27", 1920 X 1080)
[ Passmark system rating = 3844 / CPU = 15047 / 2D= 662 / 3D= 3550 / Mem= 1785 / Disk= 2649] (12.30.15)

Research:

3. Dell Precision T3500 (2011) (Rev 2) Xeon X5677 4-core @ 3.46 / 3.73GHz > 12GB (6X 2GB) DDR3-1333 ECC > Quadro 4000 (2GB) > PERC 6/i + Seagate 300GB 15K SAS ST3300657SS + WD Black 500GB > 525W PSU> Windows 7 Professional 64-bit > 2X Dell 19" LCD
[Passmark system rating = 2751, CPU = 7236 / 2D= 658 / 3D=2020 / Mem= 1875 / Disk=1221]



,

 

[CBender]

I think that the pci slot is reversed and coupled with a 1x slot on the same row. A lot of these boards are not built with a pci gpu in mind, rather raid controllers and such. Could be wrong though.

 

[bambiboom]

I think that the pci slot is reversed and coupled with a 1x slot on the same row. A lot of these boards are not built with a pci gpu in mind, rather raid controllers and such. Could be wrong though.

CBender,

Yes, the slot arrangement is an interesting aspect. My assumption was that it's necessary to use the GPU without the bracket and I suppose run the cable through the back panel.

On Passmark, all 8 systems tested with Supermicro X8STi boards have a dedicated graphics card: three have Radeon HD 7970's, two with GTX 560, a Radeon R9 290 and a 9800GT.

The Supermicro site does mention that with the Supermicro X8STi to use a "Revision K" chassis which I think is a 2U server chassis, so perhaps there is more than one slot layout?

Cheers,

BambiBoom

 

[imrazor]

Thanks for the comprehensive response! Yes, I thought these old Xeons had a lot of potential.

I've seen a few scattered reports of people getting 48GB of RAM on these boards, even though Supermicro states that only 24GB are supported. The 24GB limit would be one of my few concerns about this board.

As for the PCIe slot, I've seen at least one video of someone cutting off the locking tab on a video card with a saw to fit it to a server motherboard. It seems this would be a similar situation. Not sure I want to mutilate a video card for this. I wonder if Linux supports the onboard Matrox chip.

It seems that Precision T3500s/T5500s are going cheap too. How hard was it to change out the CPU in one of those? Were you able to keep the stock Dell cooler? Do they require ECC RAM? I've had really good luck with the Precision laptops, but have never tried one of the desktops.

 

[bambiboom]

Thanks for the comprehensive response! Yes, I thought these old Xeons had a lot of potential.

I've seen a few scattered reports of people getting 48GB of RAM on these boards, even though Supermicro states that only 24GB are supported. The 24GB limit would be one of my few concerns about this board.

As for the PCIe slot, I've seen at least one video of someone cutting off the locking tab on a video card with a saw to fit it to a server motherboard. It seems this would be a similar situation. Not sure I want to mutilate a video card for this. I wonder if Linux supports the onboard Matrox chip.

It seems that Precision T3500s/T5500s are going cheap too. How hard was it to change out the CPU in one of those? Were you able to keep the stock Dell cooler? Do they require ECC RAM? I've had really good luck with the Precision laptops, but have never tried one of the desktops.

imrazor,

I've had excellent results with the T3500 and T5500 given the cost:

Purchased for $53 + $24 shipping:

Precision T3500 (2011) (Original) Xeon W3530 4-core @ 2.8 /3.06GHz > 4GB (2X 2GB) DDR3-1333 ECC > GeForce 9800 GT (1GB)> WD Black 500GB
[[Passmark system rating = 1963, CPU = 4482 / 2D= 609 / 3D=805 / Mem= 1409 / Disk=1048]

CPU: $60
RAM: $43
GPU. RAID, controller, Drives: Left over from T5500 upgrade

Results:

Dell Precision T3500 (2011) (Rev 2) Xeon X5677 4-core @ 3.46 / 3.73GHz > 12GB (6X 2GB) DDR3-1333 ECC > Quadro 4000 (2GB) > PERC 6/i + Seagate 300GB 15K SAS ST3300657SS + WD Black 500GB > 525W PSU> Windows 7 Professional 64-bit > 2X Dell 19" LCD
[Passmark system rating = 2751, CPU = 7236 / 2D= 658 / 3D=2020 / Mem= 1875 / Disk=1221]

Purchased for $171 + $22 shipping:

Dell Precision T5500 (2011) (Original): Xeon E5620 quad core @ 2.4 / 2.6 GHz > 6GB DDR3 ECC Reg 1333 > Quadro FX 580 (512MB) > Dell PERC 6/i SAS /SATA controller > Seagate Cheetah 15K 146GB and 300GB > Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
[ Passmark system rating = 1479 / CPU = 4067 / 2D= 520 / 3D= 311 / Mem= 1473 / Disk= 1208]

CPU 1: $230
CPU2: $170
CPU riser board: $70
RAM: $140
PERC H310: $60 (converts disk form 3GB/s to 6GB's) (Disk score changed from 1940 to 2649)
GPU: left over from z420 upgrade, valaue about $230

Results:

2. Dell Precision T5500 (2011) (Revised) > 2X Xeon X5680 (6 -core @ 3.33 / 3.6GHz), 48GB DDR3 1333 ECC Reg. > Quadro K2200 (4GB ) > PERC H310 / Samsung 840 250GB / WD RE4 Enterprise 1TB > M-Audio 192 sound card > Logitech z313 > 875W PSU > Windows 7 Professional 64> HP 2711x (27", 1920 X 1080)
[ Passmark system rating = 3844 / CPU = 15047 / 2D= 662 / 3D= 3550 / Mem= 1785 / Disk= 2649] (12.30.15)

And that is a 12-core /24 thread @ 3.33 3.6GHz, 48GB RAM, 4GB Quadro , 250GB SSD /1TB, 875W system for about $1,000. On Passmark, the CPU performance is the 3rd highest of 645, T5500 systems tested.

For your use, you might find that a used Dell Precision T3500/ T5500 / T7500 would be a simpler and in the end less expensive way to have to have a faster VM server as the chassis, CPU cooling, power supply are all worked out, you just plug in the new components as you buy them. I'd suggest a T5500 or T7500 and you can start our with a single CPU and add a second one and more RAM later. All these have two conventional GPU slots for 2X 150W cards. The T7500 also has four drives bays and can use 192GB RAM- an 1100W PSU also.

I had an earlier used dual CPU Precision, a T5400 that was my main system for 5 years and it ran usually 16-20 hours per day rendering and sometimes days continuously all without a single components failure or any data loss.

The T5400, T3500, and T5500 were all , working systems and completely usable systems as arrived. I was testing these on Passmark two hours after opening the boxes. It's much simpler and more cost effective to buy a working system and upgrade while using it.

Cheers,

BamibiBoom

 

[imrazor]

I found this old post about the X8STi: http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2591196/mbd-x8sti-motherboard-support-standard-gpu.html
It looks like most graphics cards would require physical modification to fit in the slot. Perhaps Quadros would fit in without having to cut the locking tab?

I tried to buy a used HP Z400 years ago and had a rather negative experience both with the hardware and HP support (it was under warranty.) So I've been nervous about buying used workstations ever since. Given the prices, I may go ahead and take the plunge again. I did find a T3500 with a dual-core Xeon that was <$100. How hard is it to change out the processor? Do they take unbuffered non-ECC DDR3 RAM?

 

[bambiboom]

I found this old post about the X8STi: http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2591196/mbd-x8sti-motherboard-support-standard-gpu.html
It looks like most graphics cards would require physical modification to fit in the slot. Perhaps Quadros would fit in without having to cut the locking tab?

I tried to buy a used HP Z400 years ago and had a rather negative experience both with the hardware and HP support (it was under warranty.) So I've been nervous about buying used workstations ever since. Given the prices, I may go ahead and take the plunge again. I did find a T3500 with a dual-core Xeon that was <$100. How hard is it to change out the processor? Do they take unbuffered non-ECC DDR3 RAM?

imrazor,

Looking at the X8STi, from Passmark results, it seems certain a GPU can be used but I think it would need to have to have the mounting bracket modified. Overall, that and given the complication of the case, CPU cooling, power supply possibly being unconventional will make both the effort and cost more than buying a used complete system As mentioned, it's worth paying a bit more to have a complete, working system even if it has a 1.8 Processor.

Changing a CPU is very simple and takes about 20-30 minutes once you're used to it. On a T3500, remove the CPU heatsink shroud, undo the four spring loaded screws holding on the Heatsink, (You need a long, medium thickness Philips screwdriver to reach the scews,) remove the heatsink, clean the mating surface, unlock the CPU holder by unclipping (pushing doew a little and to the side) / pulling up the lever, remove the CPU, put the new on in, add a little X shape of CPU thermal paste put the CPU in carefully in the correct orientation reseat the Heasink, screw down- quite firmly but not really cranking on it, clip the shroud back in place. This has to be done carefully and with extreme cleanliness, the amount of thermal paste correct, but after the first time it seems routine and s quite fast. The X500 had two kinds of heatsink, the all cast Aluminum one I call the "Organ Pipes" mode was used for the low power ones, and the Steel one with Copper Pipes I call the "Model Office Building" style for the more powerful CPU's. As the uprated ones cost only about $10-15, I'd use the Model Office Building every time.

There is always some risk with used components, but I think of every system as used beginning the second time it's turned on. Workstations have more latitude as they're design cousins to servers and Xeons do have a demonstrably lower failure rate and company support for Precisions seems to be enthusiastic. When I bought the $171 T5500, I phoned Dell and they sent a Windows 7 re-installation disk free of charge which even included the drivers for the PERC 6/i RAID controller. I put the PERc 6/i in the T3500 and when I loaded Windows, I used the T5500 disk and in both cases it activated Windows automatically to the separate Product key numbers.

If you provide a budget, I could make some suggestions. With the Tx500 Precisions, unless the CPU included is near the top end, it's usually less expensive to buy a low specification system and change the CPU. But, if you want to have a dual Xeon T5500 or T7500 try and find one with dual CPU's already as the 2nd CPU riser boards can cost nearly as much as the CPU. The $53 T3500 at $100 would have been questionable, but as $53 since the included W3530 was worth $25 and the Geforce 9800 GT about $25 to resell, the system really cost about only a few Dollars- nearly free. The W3520 performance actually was nearly good enough to use as it it was.

Cheers,

BambiBoom