Questions on DIY wiring your house with Ethernet, HDMI, Coax & Wall USB

[iamiansteven]

Hi. I'm really new to all of this, so I want to ask some help and learn from this. My parents house is about to be done, and I want to ready it for wiring.

First of all about Ethernet, I am contemplating for Cat 7 already, to future proof our house like for impending IoT shits. But supply of Cat 7 in bulk is so rare here, I can't even find one here in the Philippines none other than ordering it to Amazon. I do find a Cat 6a, which basically the same thing right, but Cat 7 got improved shielding and added +100MHz. So do you think Cat 7 is still overkill despite modern demands and usages these days? Should I just go with Cat 6a instead? Also shielding is important to me bc I'll pull this along the electrical wires on those orange plastic wiring tubings. I worry since its side by side with these electrical wires (tho have rubber insulation of course at the outside) it might cause so much drop and degrade and I'll not get what I pay for this. Concrete houses is a must here in the Philippines so no dry walls.

Also about the Ethernet cable I want to use, I'm confused if I'll see this flat Cat 7 Ethernet cable that I'm seeing all over Amazon (like this), which is can even max up to 100ft, tho I really wont use it straight 100ft, more likely just cut and cut it, and crimp each sides, I've heard that Flat ethernet cables, aren't viable to use it at full length as there's more likely for cross talk as most are not twisted and shielded. Well that cable is twisted and have their own shielding, tho no outer mesh shielding like on regular ones (like this one). Also for some reasons flat cables are much expensive than regular ones, I also like flat cables as it's much easier to pull with and it's much more likely to be easier to pull with, and it's aesthetics and not be able to kink and tangle much. So what do you think, should I go with the flat cables or regular ones instead? And also, will flat cables much easier to cut, strip and crimp than regular ones? Will regular crimping and stripping tools work with flat too? I asked the manufacturer about it on Amazon and they replied they wouldn't suggest it and said

"We don't advice any customer to crimp it because you don't have the correct RJ45 connectors for it. Our flat cable is small in the copper wire, so the RJ45 connectors are not the same as the traditional connector that is for round cable. So i would say NO to it and you could order the length you need, we have 5ft, 10ft, 25ft, 50ft and 100ft available. Thanks anyway"

Is that any true? I'm asking you guys, do you think I could cut, strip or crimp flat ethernet cables?

I plan to wire it first, then later is putting wall outlets and on it and maybe buying a network switch if it's applicable. But first some questions about those bc I think I don't understand them, and maybe how to structural plan it.

We want every room, all rooms both on first & second floor (some rooms have 4 Ethernet like my room and Family Room), plus 2 Google Wifi spots for each floors (those will have their own eth, to have their own Ethernet ports, so they could just get Ethernet port, and either put it directly on their PCs or their media devices. And female keystone will be wired to an Ethernet cable and all of them are gonna meet at the ceiling, the internet modem will be at the second floor family room, which it's gonna be wired to a gigabit switch at the attic ceiling, using a keystone again right? (or do we need coupler for this time), for it to be distributed and the internet be separated right? That's how it works right? Is this is a wrong setup? Especially the separated modem to network switch to rooms route (does that degrade speed?) (I want hidden and separated network switch bc I bet I'll barely work and touch network switch anyways, and I don't want blinking lights on my Family Room, I want it clean)

Also about network switches, I like this nicely design Asus one (yea I know I'm buying it for aesthetics not functionality), each ports need to be ported on each room's number of ports right? So the total number of Ethernet wall ports I'll have, that's how many ports I should have in my network switch right? So what if that 8 port from Asus Network Switch isn't enough, can I buy 2 and like bridge or combine them so I'll have 16 ports? Is that possible on any network switches? Will that degrade performance too? Also does network switches needed cooling or not? Especially even just for home uses? Can you turn them off, like when you're about to sleep or something, to save some power?

About keystone, couplers & wall Ethernet ports, what's the difference between usage of keystone and wall couplers? Does both work both ways? I also want keystone setup so I could customize the ports I'll have on that wall port, e.g. mix coax & Ethernet, or add HDMI or USB, such that. Or should I just buy wall ports combinations that's already as is? The thing is if I do that there will be wall plates design consistencies.

About coax, HDMI and wall USB, is all just a coupler keystone right? You couple a coax, HDMI or USB cable inside the wall, with the wall socket to the other wall socket or directly right?

On wall HDMI, can you essentially cut HDMI's each port, and buy another port and crimp it again or nah? Bc that's all fiber and really manufactured? Bc I think our wall tubing on concrete won't gonna fit the HDMI port there, but the cable will, so I'll just need to cut the other HDMI port, pull the cable first and crimp a new one? Is that possible or nah? Also can you use wall USB to distribute duplication of an input to other rooms or such? I'll most likely need that for that, atleast maybe not in immediate but in the future, but since the port can't go into the tubing itself, I'm less considering it now. But important thing is I'll still learn about it.

On wall USB, do you just use this to have much longer applications and ports for USB, or can you use that for wall USB charging as well? That's what I'm confused about? Bc some legit wall USB charging sockets that I'm seeing is bundled right with power socket, is it bc it basically needs an AC regulator inside right? And I really want the keystone setup as much as possible bc like I've said I want to customize the setup and layout, and separate power sockets on USB too. I both want USB A and USC too, with Qualcomm's Quick Charge as much as possible, So is wall charging with USB coupler keystone impossible? Can you still make it work?

I know this is are long ass questions, but pardon me for the bother. Please I really need some help and I want to learn to do this myself. Thanks in advance

 

[jsmithepa]

Highly suggest segregate signal from power cables, 6" or more apart if they are to be run alongside, crossing no big deal. If u end up running CAT7 should follow grounding procedure otherwise it may make it worse. Do not use flat CAT cables for in-wall, use standard round solid-core CAT cables, that's all I have to say about that from this IT guy. In-wall CAT, be very careful about Chinese CCA/fake knock off, if they are cheap it maybe a reason, once in-wall you are stuck so don't say nobody warned you. CCA cables=is either stamped on the jacket or when u cut it, you see the wire's outside is copper but the core is silver aluminum. Also real CAT cables are twisted ~3 twists per inch, fake cables have hardly any twist.

HDMI/USB cables have relatively short length limitations. I hear there are ACTIVE HDMI cables that can run longer but I have no experience. Hope u know what you are doing.

 

[Solandri]

If the house is currently being built, the best way to future-proof it is not to install cables, but to install conduit. It can be as simple as 2" or 3" PVC pipe from everywhere you want an outlet, to some central location (a network closet). If you can, I'd also suggest using two 45 degree elbows instead of a 90 degree elbow at turns. Once the conduit is in place, you simply run some fish tape through it, and use that to pull the cables you want through the conduit. In the future if you wish to replace (say) Cat 6 with Cat 7, you just tie the Cat 7 to the Cat 6, and pull the Cat 6 through the conduit.

The power lines should be in separate metal conduit. That's a legal requirement in the U.S. Dunno about the Philippines. It's to prevent a fire in the power wiring short from spreading to the rest of the house. The metal conduit acts as a faraday cage and prevents electrical interference to nearby data cables.

Avoid flat Ethernet cables for long runs. The twisting is a noise-rejection mechanism. Doesn't really matter for short cables (up to about 3-5 meters). But beyond that, the flat cables are more susceptible to noise and signal degradation. Depending on how much electrical noise there is in the house, you may not get as much distance out of them. Regular RJ45 plugs crimp (on the cable side) by biting into the plastic sheath of the round ethernet cable. They won't be able to do that with flat cable. So you'll need to find special RJ45 plugs for flat cable (if they even exist) and a crimping tool for them.

Whether to use keystones or couplers really depends on how easy it is to wire the cables yourself. Ethernet will probably be keystones. HDMI will probably be a coupler. Coax can be either, though it's such stiff cable that a coupler is usually easier. I haven't hooked up USB through the wall - are you sure it'll work through a long cable run?

If you wish to wire every room, a trick I used in my house was to run conduit to a common wall between two rooms. Run the cables for both rooms through that conduit, then place the network wall plates on both sides of that wall, one in each room. That roughly halved the amount of conduit I needed.

Ideally you want a single switch, placed in your network closet, and all wires going to that switch. Multiple switches complicate things and makes troubleshooting more difficult. 16-, 24-, and 48-port switches are readily available. But if you're willing to live with the clutter and difficulty troubleshooting, you can daisy chain multiple 8-port switches. For home use I recommend a dumb switch. But if you want to do fancy things like segment the network or have multiple VLANs, you might want a managed switch. I don't recommend a managed switch if you don't plan to do these things, because it just adds an extra troubleshooting step. (With a dumb switch, either it works or doesn't. With a managed switch, you need to login to it and confirm that its configuration didn't change.)

Your router should also be in the network closet. Ideally the modem would be as well, but worst case you can run one Ethernet cable from the modem to the network closet, to plug into the router's WAN port. If the modem room needs Ethernet, you run an extra Ethernet cable(s) from the network closet back to the modem room.

If a room will need multiple Ethernet connections, another switch just for that room is permissible if you need a lot of ports but don't want to run that many Ethernet cables from the network closet to that room.

Long lengths of HDMI are a problem. The HDMI spec calls for a low voltage signal, which means it degrades very quickly with distance. You'll start to encounter intermittent signal dropouts beyond about 5 meters. Definitely beyond 10 meters. To counter this, longer HDMI cables need to use thicker wires. This makes longer HDMI cables very thick and stiff (and expensive). Tough to pull through conduit. You might be able to get around this by using active HDMI cables (Redmere). These use a signal booster to transmit HDMI signals at a higher voltage than the HDMI spec, then convert it back, allowing longer lengths with thinner cables. But they're directional - one end of the cable must be plugged into the source, the other end to the TV. Won't work if you swap the source and TV locations.

Be sure to test the cable with your source and TV to make sure everything works before installing it. I didn't have time to test, and unfortunately the HDMI signal to my TV occasionally cuts out for a few seconds once or twice a day.

I wouldn't recommend trying to crimp your own HDMI cables. It's 21 wires.

USB charging sockets are usually added to the power outlet wall plates. You can buy those with the USB charging port built in.

 

[kanewolf]

I agree with @Solandri that conduit is the best answer. I disagree with the size recommendation. 2 inch diameter conduit is WAY too big. For low voltage conduit, I would recommend "smurf" tubing -- https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-3-4-in-x-100-ft-ENT-Coil-Blue-12007-100/100404116 1 inch or 1.25 inch diameter.

 

[Alabalcho]

USB is not designed, and probably won't operate, on long runs, so you can skip this from your setup. Wholly agree with idea of having conduits, both horizontally and vertically.

 

[USAFRet]

1. Conduit, yes.

2. "Flat" Cat7, no. The 'flat' cables are not up to spec. Thinner gauge wires.

3. USB more than 15 feet, no. USB relies on a 2 way signal, and past 15 feet, the return signal is too late for the device to recognize it.

 

[Solandri]

[quotemsg=21465704,0,1329358]I agree with @Solandri that conduit is the best answer. I disagree with the size recommendation. 2 inch diameter conduit is WAY too big. For low voltage conduit, I would recommend "smurf" tubing -- https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-3-4-in-x-100-ft-ENT-Coil-Blue-12007-100/100404116 1 inch or 1.25 inch diameter. [/quotemsg]
For a few Ethernet cables, 1.25" tubing is fine.

For all the cables he outlined together (Ethernet + HDMI + coax), you're gonna need bigger conduit. Especially if you use HDMI cable rated for 15+ meters (which itself will be just under 1" in diameter).

 

[kanewolf]

[quotemsg=21469683,0,648445][quotemsg=21465704,0,1329358]I agree with @Solandri that conduit is the best answer. I disagree with the size recommendation. 2 inch diameter conduit is WAY too big. For low voltage conduit, I would recommend "smurf" tubing -- https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-3-4-in-x-100-ft-ENT-Coil-Blue-12007-100/100404116 1 inch or 1.25 inch diameter. [/quotemsg]
For a few Ethernet cables, 1.25" tubing is fine.

For all the cables he outlined together (Ethernet + HDMI + coax), you're gonna need bigger conduit. Especially if you use HDMI cable rated for 15+ meters (which itself will be just under 1" in diameter).[/quotemsg]

I wouldn't recommend long point-to-point HDMI cables (although the price is attractive). HDMI over cat6a or over coax would be way more flexible.

 

[failboat]

For ethernet go CAT6A UTP. Don't buy shielded. As it only costs more and it's not practical to ground. If you really want fast networking for a few desktops I would suggest running fiber. You can't terminate fiber yourself. It looks like the industry is leaning a lot more towards fiber than RJ45 for multigig. used 10G nics are only $20 on ebay. The switches are very expensive. A lot of fiber is rated for much higher speeds than 10G. Mikrotec has some new switches coming out with spf+ that are much less expensive than others. A lot of people use the $350 dlink 4 spf+ switch which is also layer2+ and has 24 1G. You want to run all your networking back to a single point into a patch panel and then into the same switch.

For USB I wouldn't recommend some wall plate for it. You want to use the little brick thing that comes with your device. The cable doesn't really matter. New stuff is USB C as well.

https://www.amazon.com/D-Link-Systems-SmartPro-Stackable-DGS-1510-28X/dp/B00MCZNW5G/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1541716924&sr=8-10&keywords=10G+switch

 

[iamiansteven]

[quotemsg=21469683,0,648445][quotemsg=21465704,0,1329358]I agree with @Solandri that conduit is the best answer. I disagree with the size recommendation. 2 inch diameter conduit is WAY too big. For low voltage conduit, I would recommend "smurf" tubing -- https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-3-4-in-x-100-ft-ENT-Coil-Blue-12007-100/100404116 1 inch or 1.25 inch diameter. [/quotemsg]
For a few Ethernet cables, 1.25" tubing is fine.

For all the cables he outlined together (Ethernet + HDMI + coax), you're gonna need bigger conduit. Especially if you use HDMI cable rated for 15+ meters (which itself will be just under 1" in diameter).[/quotemsg]

Yea that's what I'm saying. Also it's already built in concrete walls, already finished, and the house is almost finished too. So I'm probably will just use HDMI over Ethernet bc it's not really possible

The conduits is already there (so that's what it really called) but it's just plastic (orange, I think I have no choise but to run with the electrical wire too. Don't worry I think we bought the best electrical wires so I doubt short circuits.

 

[iamiansteven]

For USB I wouldn't recommend some wall plate for it. You want to use the little brick thing that comes with your device

Why tho?

 

[iamiansteven]

If the house is currently being built, the best way to future-proof it is not to install cables, but to install conduit. It can be as simple as 2" or 3" PVC pipe from everywhere you want an outlet, to some central location (a network closet). If you can, I'd also suggest using two 45 degree elbows instead of a 90 degree elbow at turns. Once the conduit is in place, you simply run some fish tape through it, and use that to pull the cables you want through the conduit. In the future if you wish to replace (say) Cat 6 with Cat 7, you just tie the Cat 7 to the Cat 6, and pull the Cat 6 through the conduit.

Like I've said, the house is already built, with concrete walls, and finished cement, the whole house is almost finished itself too. Yes there's already conduit in place, these are what I call orange wire tubing, and yes there's already those orange boxes for wall ports. Yea we'll probably just pull the wires in place and cut it

The power lines should be in separate metal conduit. That's a legal requirement in the U.S. Dunno about the Philippines.

Yea it's already placed, and they're not metal, they're plastic instead so I think I'll have no choice but to run it together with the electrical wires, don't worry I think we both good and strong wires so short circuits are more less likely

Avoid flat Ethernet cables for long runs. The twisting is a noise-rejection mechanism. Doesn't really matter for short cables (up to about 3-5 meters). But beyond that, the flat cables are more susceptible to noise and signal degradation. Depending on how much electrical noise there is in the house, you may not get as much distance out of them. Regular RJ45 plugs crimp (on the cable side) by biting into the plastic sheath of the round ethernet cable. They won't be able to do that with flat cable. So you'll need to find special RJ45 plugs for flat cable (if they even exist) and a crimping tool for them.

Copy that, that's out of my option now. Glad I researched a bit about it first than just look outright on it's reviews. I think I'll still consider it tho on external short cables usage

I haven't hooked up USB through the wall - are you sure it'll work through a long cable run?

Tbh I don't know but like I've said, I just want it for USB charging, like the USB keystone will be connected the power wires or a power source (is that how it works, or nah bc it'll probably still need an AC or regulator inside, like how are charging bricks so big) No I don't plan to have long USB cables input ports from one device to another device on other room. That's just extra lol

Ideally you want a single switch, placed in your network closet, and all wires going to that switch. Multiple switches complicate things and makes troubleshooting more difficult. 16-, 24-, and 48-port switches are readily available. But if you're willing to live with the clutter and difficulty troubleshooting, you can daisy chain multiple 8-port switches. For home use I recommend a dumb switch. But if you want to do fancy things like segment the network or have multiple VLANs, you might want a managed switch. I don't recommend a managed switch if you don't plan to do these things, because it just adds an extra troubleshooting step. (With a dumb switch, either it works or doesn't. With a managed switch, you need to login to it and confirm that its configuration didn't change.)

Your router should also be in the network closet. Ideally the modem would be as well, but worst case you can run one Ethernet cable from the modem to the network closet, to plug into the router's WAN port. If the modem room needs Ethernet, you run an extra Ethernet cable(s) from the network closet back to the modem room.

If a room will need multiple Ethernet connections, another switch just for that room is permissible if you need a lot of ports but don't want to run that many Ethernet cables from the network closet to that room.

Tbh this just made things more complicated to me, I guess I really need to learn basics of networking to grasp this. But I'll just figure this out later or ask for someone's help. Anyways, if I already run cables in the walls, and my network setup as how I understand it on my mind is actually wrong, will that be a waste of time, or that still can be remedied and still be used when I really set this up now (or set it up by a professional) Like what I mean can I run cables already on my home without knowing where or how to make them work or setup for now, or what I mean is will the cable run layouts of my house will depend to the network setup itself? And no I don't think we'll have a network closet. I think I'll just need a ISP modem, connected to two or 1 switches and a wifi mesh spots by Google Wifi. that's all. Also like I've said I would want to hide the switch on the attic ceiling so I'll not see it and will not deal with it regularly, but the ISP modem will be at the second floor, so a one floor vertical length with ISP modem to network switch. Is that even viable or recommended. Also does network switches needs cooling? Also ISP modems here usually are just wifi modem, (but I'd rather use my Google Home mesh spot instead so I think i'll disable that) with Ethernet ports on it's behind. And you still doesn't answer my assumption with network switches based on my understanding, am I right that switches is for separating and splitting internet to other devices via ethernet port. Am I right with that?

USB charging sockets are usually added to the power outlet wall plates. You can buy those with the USB charging port built in.

The thing is like I've said, I really want to customize the layout of my wall sockets, I also want to separate USB ones to the power outlet ones? Is that even possible? Can you really put power wires on just USB keystones?

 

[jsmithepa]

Over here I can have 120v+5v on the same socket, or just 120v or just 5v, totally flexible. I dunno if same exists for 220v.

 

[Solandri]

[quotemsg=21473851,0,2829136]Tbh this just made things more complicated to me, I guess I really need to learn basics of networking to grasp this. But I'll just figure this out later or ask for someone's help. Anyways, if I already run cables in the walls, and my network setup as how I understand it on my mind is actually wrong, will that be a waste of time, or that still can be remedied and still be used when I really set this up now (or set it up by a professional) Like what I mean can I run cables already on my home without knowing where or how to make them work or setup for now, or what I mean is will the cable run layouts of my house will depend to the network setup itself? And no I don't think we'll have a network closet. I think I'll just need a ISP modem, connected to two or 1 switches and a wifi mesh spots by Google Wifi. that's all.[/quotemsg]
If it's a small house, then you don't need a network closet. But I'd highly recommend it for a larger house. Otherwise when a wall port in a room stops working, you're left running all over the house trying to figure out where its cable goes, which switch it plugs into, etc. Troubleshooting is just a lot easier when everything is in one room (closet). "What happens if I move this plug from here to there?" can be answered in 3 seconds, instead of taking several minutes while you run around the house. It also makes it easier to use a single UPS to keep your entire network powered up during power outages (most ISPs have battery backups as well, so can continue to provide service for 20 minutes to several hours into a power failure).

And you still doesn't answer my assumption with network switches based on my understanding, am I right that switches is for separating and splitting internet to other devices via ethernet port. Am I right with that?

Yes, modern network switches can be used as splitters / repeaters. Just be aware that unless you go with a fancier router or managed switch, a device on "the network" will be able to see all other devices. For the vast majority of home users, this is good enough (you can add a guest WiFi network for some isolation).

The thing is like I've said, I really want to customize the layout of my wall sockets, I also want to separate USB ones to the power outlet ones? Is that even possible? Can you really put power wires on just USB keystones?

The wall plate has an AC adapter built in. It converts whatever your local AC power is into 12V and 5V DC for the USB port.

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Electrical-Wiring-Devices-Light-Controls-Electrical-Outlets-Receptacles/USB-Port/N-5yc1vZc33aZ1z0r7vs