Quicksilver elemental copying bola ability

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hello all,
I have a question concerning the copy of the tap target creature
ability, granted by leonin bola, by Quicksilver Elemental. I read
somewhere that it is possible for QE to copy the ability. However, I
have my doubts ;-)

Quicksilver Elemental
{3}{U}{U}
Creature -- Elemental
3/4
{U}: Quicksilver Elemental gains all activated abilities of target
creature until end of turn. (If any of the abilities use that
creature's name, use this creature's name instead.)
You may spend blue mana as though it were mana of any color to pay the
activation costs of Quicksilver Elemental's abilities.

Leonin Bola
{1}
Artifact -- Equipment
Equipped creature has "{T}, Unattach Leonin Bola: Tap target
creature."
Equip {1} ({1}: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a
sorcery. This card comes into play unattached and stays in play if the
creature leaves play.)

Now, when I copy the ability by paying {U}, the QE gets the ability
{T}, Unattach Leonin Bola: tap target creature

Now my question: Is it possible to activate this ability of the QE ?

Rule 409.1f reads, in part, ...Once the total cost is determined, it
becomes "locked in." ...
->Total cost here means, tapping and unattaching.
Then, rule 409.1h reads : The player pays the total cost in any order.
Partial payments are not allowed.
->Since partial payments are not allowed, I interpret this rule as
have to tap and unattach before the ability can be considered played.

Now, how do I unattach the bola ? I assume I can't unattach the bola
from the creature I copied the ability from since I don't control the
bola.

Sincerely,
Paul

 

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On 9 Jul 2004 05:56:02 -0700, UnK <paul.debakker@skynet.be> wrote:
>Hello all,
>I have a question concerning the copy of the tap target creature
>ability, granted by leonin bola, by Quicksilver Elemental. I read
>somewhere that it is possible for QE to copy the ability. However, I
>have my doubts ;-)

It is possible; it is an activated ability that the creature has. (It's not
_printed_ on the creature, but QE doesn't require that.)

>Quicksilver Elemental 3UU Creature -- Elemental
>3/4 U: ~ gains all activated abilities of target
>creature until end of turn. (If any of the abilities use that
>creature's name, use this creature's name instead.)
>You may spend blue mana as though it were mana of any color to pay the
>activation costs of ~'s abilities.

>Leonin Bola 1 Artifact -- Equipment
>Equipped creature has "Tap,Unattach ~: Tap target creature.". / Equip 1 (*)

If the QE has the ability, using it requires tapping the QE ... and unattaching
the Bola which generated the _original_ ability from whatever creature it
currently is attached to. If that Bola has left play, the QE ability can't be
used; if that Bola is in play but isn't on a creature, the QE ability can't be
used. The QE ability doesn't actually care who controls the Bola its original
came from.

>Now, when I copy the ability by paying {U}, the QE gets the ability
>{T}, Unattach Leonin Bola: tap target creature
>
>Now my question: Is it possible to activate this ability of the QE ?

Yes. It's weird, but yes.

>Rule 409.1f reads, in part, ...Once the total cost is determined, it
>becomes "locked in." ...
>->Total cost here means, tapping and unattaching.
>Then, rule 409.1h reads : The player pays the total cost in any order.
>Partial payments are not allowed.
>->Since partial payments are not allowed, I interpret this rule as
>have to tap and unattach before the ability can be considered played.

Yes. And you are allowed to tap the QE, and are allowed to unattach the Bola
from whatever it's currently attached to. Note that even with an "original"
copy of the ability, the Bola is not necessarily controlled by the same player
who controls the creature (and therefore is playing the ability)...

>Now, how do I unattach the bola ? I assume I can't unattach the bola
>from the creature I copied the ability from since I don't control the bola.

It doesn't say "Tap,Unattach Leonin Bola if you control it:".

Dave
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It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"UnK" <paul.debakker@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:290ea008.0407090456.2c8d3c68@posting.google.com...
> Hello all,
> I have a question concerning the copy of the tap target creature
> ability, granted by leonin bola, by Quicksilver Elemental. I read
> somewhere that it is possible for QE to copy the ability. However, I
> have my doubts ;-)
>
> Quicksilver Elemental
> {3}{U}{U}
> Creature -- Elemental
> 3/4
> {U}: Quicksilver Elemental gains all activated abilities of target
> creature until end of turn. (If any of the abilities use that
> creature's name, use this creature's name instead.)
> You may spend blue mana as though it were mana of any color to pay the
> activation costs of Quicksilver Elemental's abilities.
>
> Leonin Bola
> {1}
> Artifact -- Equipment
> Equipped creature has "{T}, Unattach Leonin Bola: Tap target
> creature."
> Equip {1} ({1}: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a
> sorcery. This card comes into play unattached and stays in play if the
> creature leaves play.)
>
> Now, when I copy the ability by paying {U}, the QE gets the ability
> {T}, Unattach Leonin Bola: tap target creature
>
> Now my question: Is it possible to activate this ability of the QE ?
>
> Rule 409.1f reads, in part, ...Once the total cost is determined, it
> becomes "locked in." ...
> ->Total cost here means, tapping and unattaching.
> Then, rule 409.1h reads : The player pays the total cost in any order.
> Partial payments are not allowed.
> ->Since partial payments are not allowed, I interpret this rule as
> have to tap and unattach before the ability can be considered played.
>
> Now, how do I unattach the bola ? I assume I can't unattach the bola
> from the creature I copied the ability from since I don't control the
> bola.
>
This works. Although it's pretty weird that you can pay the cost of
de-equipping a piece of equipment you don't control, this specific situation
lets you do you just that. This may seem weird (and frankly, it is) but it's
fully supported by the rules.


Jasper Overman

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

UnK <paul.debakker@skynet.be> sent:
(Quicksilver Elemental, Leonin Bola on opponent's creature)

> Now, how do I unattach the bola ? I assume I can't unattach the bola
> from the creature I copied the ability from since I don't control the
> bola.

There's nothing in the rules that specify that you can only unattach
something you control. So, it works just fine - the ability knows
which Bola it came from, so it knows which permanent needs to be
unattached for the cost to be paid.

--
-- zoe

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

UnK sez:

<<
>Hello all,
>I have a question concerning the copy of the tap target creature
>ability, granted by leonin bola, by Quicksilver Elemental. I read
>somewhere that it is possible for QE to copy the ability. However, I
>have my doubts ;-)

>
>>snip card text<<
>Now, when I copy the ability by paying {U}, the QE gets the ability
>{T}, Unattach Leonin Bola: tap target creature
>>

Yes.

<<
>Now my question: Is it possible to activate this ability of the QE ?
>>

Yes, it is. Weirdly, the Bola gets unattached from the creature it was attached
to...This is one of the few times where a cost can use something under another
player's control or from another player's zone (Night Soil and Eater of the
Dead being classic examples...)

<<
>Now, how do I unattach the bola ? I assume I can't unattach the bola
>from the creature I copied the ability from since I don't control the
>bola.
>>

Well, nothing in the rules specifically states that to pay a cost, you have to
control all parts of the cost. Sure, you can't sacrifice another player's
creature, but that's part of the definition of sacrifice rather than being
anything to do with the cost. And if the rules team wanted to "correct" this,
they'd have a tough time doing it without destroying the playability of Night
Soil and Eater of the Dead...


----
"I feel like 'Cactus Gavvy' Cravath. Do you know who that is? Right. Nobody
does. He's the guy who had the home run record before Babe Ruth came along."
--Tom Walsh, whom Ken Jennings passed to become winningest ever Jeopardy!
champion