Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (
More info?)
Just my two cents, YMMV:
> > Brian wrote:
> > Would this idea be good/under/overpowered or just
> > plain mess with the balance?
Overpowered
> > Does it set off the munchkin alarm?
Yes
> > A racial template that can be applied to any race
> > to reflect the fact that they were raised by a race
> > other than their own. A character raised by another
> > race would still get the physical modifiers inherent
> > to their race. However to reflect the training they
> > would miss by being raised outside of their own
> > culture, they do no get the other bonuses of their
> > race and instead get the bonuses of the race that
> > raised them.
The way the gaining culture treats outsiders should be a major factor.
Consider a spectrum of response from closed, fearful, prejudiced, and
parochial to open, nurturing, and inclusive. YMMV as you choose the
cultural responses of your world, but fear of outsiders is a common
thread in real world and fantasy cultures; it is still true today. Most
cultures would shade heavily toward the closed end of the spectrum.
Examples of relatively open cultures that I can think of off hand are
university campuses, large corporations, and the Internet. I am sure
you can think of examples why even those are closed to some folks.
You should ask yourself, given the harsh nature of the typical DnD
world, is it even likely that this culture will raise that other race
offspring? Maybe return it to its own kind or take it as a slave, but
to treat it as a blood born member of the culture? That's quite a
stretch.
Anyone raised as a slave should not get the benefits of that culture.
Also consider that many of the cultural skills are learned, they tend
to be skills that are for implements that are particularly suited to
the race, and would not necessarily benefit an outsider, even if raised
within the culture. A gnome weapon is still a size class smaller to a
human or an elf. The fighting techniques that a gnome uses with that
weapon should be unavailable to a medium-sized person.
> laszlo_spamhole@freemail.hu wrote:
> ====================================================
> HUMAN
> * If a member of another race is raised as a human, they get an extra
2
> skill points at level 1, and an extra skill point at every even
> character level (2, 4, 6, 8, etc). They also gain the human favoured
> class of Any in place of their original favoured class.
Typical fantasy Humans are more open to other races than other races
are. The DnD rules reflect this; hence Half-Elves and Half-Orcs.
If a member of another race is raised as a Human, they get an extra 1
skill point at level 1, Period. This is based on a view of Human
flexibility and curiousity as being intrinsic, not learned. Other races
have intrinsic traits and skill points is where Humans are compensated.
[Another (different) view of this is: if flexibility and curiousity are
cultural, then Human culture is open and other cultures are not; then
this whole thread is meaningless; only Humans will raise other races.
The DnD rules imply something like this with Half-Elves and Half-Orcs
.... ]
I agree that the favored class should come from the raising culture.
> * If a human is raised as a member of another race, he or she does
not
> gain the human skill point bonus, and gains the favoured class of
that
> race instead of Any.
If a human is raised as a member of another race, he or she looses 1
initial skill point, so gets 1 at level 1 and 1 at every even character
level.
> DWARF
> * If a member of another race is raised as a dwarf, they get dwarven
> stonecunning, weapon familiarity with dwarven waraxes and urgoshes,
and
> a +2 competence bonus to Appraise and Craft checks that are related
to
> stone or metal. These competence bonuses do not stack with any racial
> bonuses.
Typically, Dwarves are presented as a closed, clanish group. It seems
unlikely that they would raise outsiders.
Extrapolating from prior versions of DnD, the stonecunning skill is
somewhat physiological. Dwarven weapons would be proportioned and
balanced for a short, stout, strong individual, and should typically be
an unsuitable weapon for other races. A +1 competence bonus to Appraise
and Craft checks that are related to stone and metal would be
appropriate; "the slow kid in class". It should stack with racial
bonuses up to +2, however; "not slow after all".
> * If a dwarf is raised as a member of another race, he or she does
not
> gain stonecunning, dwarven weapon familiarity, the racial bonuses to
> attack rolls against orcs and goblinoids, the dodge bonus against
> giants, or the racial bonuses to Appraise and Craft checks.
Looses familiarity with Dwarven weapons due to lack of exposure; still
gets stonecunning (half skill where relevant - untrained), and the +1
competence bonus to A & C. I think I agree that a Dwarfs racial enemies
are learned and trained, hence lost.
> ELF
> * If a member of another race is raised as an elf, they gain martial
> weapon proficiencies for the longsword, rapier, longbow, and shortbow
> as bonus feats. They also gain a +1 competence bonus on Listen,
Search,
> and Spot checks. These competence bonuses do not stack with any
racial
> bonuses.
Typically, Elves are portrayed as helpful, but closed. It seems more
likely that Elves would go out of their way to return an outsider child
to its own kind than to raise it.
A halfling and a gnome can not even wield the longbow, and cannot wield
the long sword in the Elven fashion. I'd say shorties get rapier and
short bow, maybe short sword if the Elves were generous ("a long sword
made in your size".) Definite nix on the senses bonuses; those are not
strictly speaking skills bonuses, just are treated as such for
simplicity.
> * If an elf is raised as a member of another race, he or she does not
> gain the elven bonus martial weapon proficiency feats. Furthermore,
he
> or she gets -2 Charisma, as elves raised by non-elven parents
generally
> become withdrawn and find it difficult to relate to others or
> understand their own place in the world.
I would give Elves a free proficiency in a missle weapon and a finesse
weapon common in the culture in which they are raised (natural affinity
for dex-based fighting); default short bow, short sword, and dagger if
nothing else is culturally favored.
I would generalize the -2 Charisma bonus to all who are raised outside
of their culture take a Charisma hit, not just Elves. I think your
rational is a good call, but applies to a broader group.
> GNOME
> * If a member of another race is raised as an gnome, they gain weapon
> familiarity with gnome hooked hammers, a +2 competence bonus on Craft
> (alchemy) checks, as well as a +1 competence bonus on Listen checks
and
> saving throws against illusions. These competence bonuses do not
stack
> with any racial bonuses. Furthermore, add +1 to the Difficulty Class
> for all saving throws against illusion spells cast by such
characters.
Gnomes and Halflings have special problems raising other races - where
do they house the member of the other race? The stuff they use is not
sized for the newcomer. Gnomes and Halflings should be able to use each
other's stuff fairly well.
The only Gnome skill that should transfer is +1 competence bonus on
Craft (alchemy) - see my comments on Dwarf for analogous rational;
essentially the bonuses are mostly physiological; in alchemy we have a
slow learner.
> * If a gnome is raised as a member of another race, he or she does
not
> gain the gnomish weapon familiarity, the racial bonuses to attack
rolls
> against kobolds and goblinoids, the dodge bonus against giants, or
the
> racial bonuses to saving throws against illusions and Craft (alchemy)
> checks. They also do not gain the +1 DC for saving throws against
their
> illusion spells.
See Dwarf - not get gnome weapons (no exposure), should get the
illusions (intrinsic), and should get craft (alchemy) at an untrained
level, +1 to Craft (alchemy). Should get the bonus against giants based
on size.
> HALFLING
> * If a member of another race is raised as a halfling, they gain a +2
> morale bonus on saving throws against fear, and a +1 competence bonus
> on Listen, Climb, and Move Silently checks. These competence bonuses
do
> not stack with any racial bonuses.
I would say that these bonuses are not learned and do not transfer. You
do not mention thrown weapons and slings; I'd say these should not
transfer either, except Elves raised by Halflings should get sling.
> * If a halfling is raised as a member of another race, he or she
loses
> the racial bonus on saving throws against fear and the racial bonus
on
> attack rolls with thrown weapons and slings. Furthermore, he or she
> gains the +1 halfling racial bonus to only one saving throw (Fort,
> Reflex, or Will), as he or she chooses.
Keeps most racial bonuses. I would only loose the sling. It's easy to
find stuff to practice throwing if you already have the knack.
Should get the bonus against giants based on size.
> HALF-ELF
> * If a member of another race is raised as a half-elf, they gain a +1
> competence bonus on Listen, Spot, Diplomacy, and Gather Information
> checks. These competence bonuses do not stack with any racial
bonuses.
Half-Elf should not be a culture.
> * If a half-elf is raised as a member of another race, he or she
loses
> the racial bonuses to Listen, Spot, Search, Diplomacy and Gather
> Information. He or she also gains the favoured class of that race
> instead of Any.
LS&S are intrinsic, no loss. Diplomacy and Gather Information sould be
a benefit of any cross cultural exposure, hence should apply to all
raised outside their own culture. Hmm, maybe "or", you choice, pick
one, Diplomacy or Gather Information, because otherwise, there is not
much point to Half-Elf (not that there is, but why diminish it?) and
because it is not a benefit of Half-Orc.
> HALF-ORC
> * If a member of another race is raised as a half-orc, they may
choose
> to switch their favoured class to Barbarian.
Half-Orc should not be a culture. Raised by Orcs might work, but
enslaved by Orcs or eaten by Orcs seems more in genre.
> * If a half-orc is raised as a member of another race, he or she
loses
> 2 points from Strength, Constitution, or Dexterity, as he or she
> chooses, since the upbringing of other races is less focused on the
> martial aspects, and thus do not allow the half-orc to develop his or
> her physical attributes to their full potential.
The notion of a culture accepting even a Half-Orc ... seems to go too
much against the grain for my tastes. Orcs are supposed to be the hated
racial enemy of the cultured races.
The Half-Orc would be encouraged to use his or her physical attributes
for the benefit of the culture; there isn't much else for the Half-Orc
to do for that culture. All they can contribute is brawn.
> ====================================================
> This looks more or less balanced, as far as I can see, and the
bonuses
> and penalties gained are at least somewhat plausible. Similar entries
> could be made for the non-PHB races.
>
> Laszlo
I would err on the side of underpowering the cross-cultural transplant.
I can't think of where this has been beneficial early in life. Later in
life, it can be a broadening experience. Hmm, how about "raised by
natural parents in another culture"? That should actually be
beneficial, and give the best of two worlds. Might sacrifice a bit of
the home culture's benefits but gain from the host culture. Real world,
this is true, and is easy to find. In DnD a merchant family or the
family of a diplomat might do this.
MadKaugh
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