Radeon Pro's and non-Pro's

pitsi

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Ok, I know that most of you will consider this a really stupid question ... anyway, here it is: Is Radeon 9800 that much better than Radeon 9500 Pro? The obvious answer is yes, but what I am thinking is whether that "Pro" thing makes a difference. What kind of performance gains should I expect? And to make this question a little bit more general, is the following correct? :

Radeon 9500 < Radeon 9500 Pro < Radeon 9700 < Radeon 9700 Pro < Radeon 9800 < Radeon 9800 Pro !??!?!

P.S. Some of you may say that this upgrade is not necessary for me right now. I am aware of that but please help me by answering my questions :)

Thanks.
 
Well I'm running a 9800 Pro, core clock is 380Mhz, while the 9800 Non Pro runs at 325Mhz, just passing that on in case you didn't know it already.

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pitsi

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Yes, I am aware of course that the pro's are always better than the non-pro's when talking about the same model (e.g. 9500, 9700, 9800). My question was mainly focused on when comparing models from different "families" (e.g. the Radeon 9800 vs Radeon 9500 Pro or 9700 Pro).
 

rower30

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You can be emotional about this or look at the facts. I've tested both cards in an identical system.

9800np runs about 13500 3Dmarks in a 2.4 P4 system.
9800pro runs about 15600 3Dmarks in the same system.

If you compare the prices (go to pricewatch.com) you pay for each card, the 9800np is giving you more 3D marks per dollar spent. Its a better "deal" on a 3D mark/dollar metric. The 9800pro gives you the best performance. Take your pick. There is no magic to it.

Overclocking results are highly unreliable and aren't going to be discussed and a cost / performance basis with overclocking is illogical at best. If you want to overclock, simply get the best card you can. This way when it all goes for naught, you'll at least have excellent stock performance. Remember, overclocking makes your power supply, card, CPU, and average temperatures of components ETC all critical to your individual results.
 

lhgpoobaa

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Dec 31, 2007
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You cannot compare a R9800 to a R9500.

The R9800nonpro runs slower in core and ram Mhz only. Overclocking can be done to get it to Pro levels, allthough this isnt allways sucessful as they also occasionally use lower quality ram.

the 9500 series is different though, namely as a budget line they lack the 256bit memory bandwidth, only havign 128bit.
The 9500np also has disabled pipelines IIRC.
Lack of such things has a big impact on performance.

And yes, your scaling of the cards is pretty accurate.


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Mr no integrity coward.</b>
 

Crashman

Polypheme
Former Staff
It's all the same thing, just that some are enhanced, others handicapped:

9800 Pro is an enhanced 9700 chip that runs higher clock speeds, it also has faster RAM, and some updated features in the driver.

9800 is an underclocked 9800 Pro.

9700 Pro is the original chip from the series, offering 8 rendering pipes and a 256-bit memory pathway

9700 is an underclocked 9700 Pro.

9500 Pro is the 9700 with 1/2 the memory buswidth (128-bit instead of 256-bit)

9500 is a 9500 Pro minus, get this, 4 pipes. They are disabled in software.

Early 9500 128MB cards used the 9700 PCB (printed circuit board). Because of this, they had 256-bit memory instead of the 128-bit they were specified with. A driver hack could make one act as a 9700. Overclocking from there could make it act as a 9700 Pro. More driver hacks could make it act as a 9800. And further overclocking could make it act as a 9800 Pro!

Now imagine if you were lucky enough to get just the right 9500 non-pro for $150, and it was good enough to support all those driver hacks and overclocking, you'd have a 9800 Pro for $150!

Your chances of getting one that good, about 1 in 10. So buy 10 of the older version 9500 Non-Pros, keep the best one, and hack the heck out of it. Then sell the rest on eBay as the "hackable" version at a profit!

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Hey man! You forgot my R9600Pro! :tongue:

The R9600Pro is the new kid in town with a different core 0.13 vs 0.15, and runs cooler. Unfortunately it is like an R9500non-pro running very quick with quick memoy. It has the same 4 pipes (instead of 8, and also only 128bit memory), but runs at a stock 400mhz core and 300mhz memory memory. It performs at about 97% (or make up your own figure based on your findings) of the R9500PRO when both are at stock speed (and both overclock [in different ways]).
The R9600/non-pro is a slower version of the PRO that also uses an older type of memory TSOP (vs BGA) which doesn't overclock worth a damn!

Just thought I'd add that for the complete roundup of the top (ie DX9) cards.


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pitsi

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So, just to make things even more clear for me:

(a) How much performance (%) gain should I expect when upgrading from R9500 Pro to 9800 ?
(b) How much performance (%) gain should I expect when upgrading from R9700 Pro to 9800 ?

Thanks.
 

cleeve

Illustrious
a) just a guess, but around 15 to 20% with AA & ansio enabled

b)9700 PRO to 9800 non-pro? Maybe 5%, give or take

------------------
Radeon 9500 w/256 bit memory bus @ 367/310
AMD AthlonXP 2000+
3dMark03: 3439
 

daddywags214

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Right, and you'd only get that 5% in certain situations.

These days, no matter what company you like, be it <b>nVidia, ATi, or whatever,</b> no matter how logical your reasons, you're labeled an <b>idiot</b> or a <b>fanboy</b>, or <b>both.</b>
 

Crashman

Polypheme
Former Staff
Well, my comparison was based on cards that used the same chip! The sucky 9500 non-Pro through the 9700 Pro use the same chip, and the 9800 series uses a new stepping of that chip.

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