RAID vs External HDD

[Guest]

I'm probably missing something here but how come people keep saying that an external backup drive is safer than RAID? I mean safer than RAID0 sure but even 1 seems safer or technically to me it looks kimda the same as a backup drive.
I'm looking for an external soution for storage (1ssd in case and a 2T storage for games etc but I need to put my other 10T or so outside the box. I'm thinking of setting up a raid 6 for the externals with 2 hot swap spares. Is it really such a bad idea?

 

[USAFRet]

I'm probably missing something here but how come people keep saying that an external backup drive is safer than RAID? I mean safer than RAID0 sure but even 1 seems safer or technically to me it looks kimda the same as a backup drive.
I'm looking for an external soution for storage (1ssd in case and a 2T storage for games etc but I need to put my other 10T or so outside the box. I'm thinking of setting up a raid 6 for the externals with 2 hot swap spares. Is it really such a bad idea?

A RAID of any type (*) only helps with a physical drive fail. Which is somewhat rare.
All the other ways of data loss....does nothing for it. Accidental deletion, virus, ransomware...nope.

* Excepting of course RAID 0. That doesn't even do that.

 

[Guest]

I'm probably missing something here but how come people keep saying that an external backup drive is safer than RAID? I mean safer than RAID0 sure but even 1 seems safer or technically to me it looks kimda the same as a backup drive.
I'm looking for an external soution for storage (1ssd in case and a 2T storage for games etc but I need to put my other 10T or so outside the box. I'm thinking of setting up a raid 6 for the externals with 2 hot swap spares. (and knock on wood but I've never had any other issues than a drive failing, notably an external one at that) Is it really such a bad idea?

A RAID of any type (*) only helps with a physical drive fail. Which is somewhat rare.
All the other ways of data loss....does nothing for it. Accidental deletion, virus, ransomware...nope.

* Excepting of course RAID 0. That doesn't even do that.

That's true but backing up huge amounts of data to an external drive takes ages. I mean I keep my sensitive data backed up in 3 different places (2 off site) but for mass storage like movies, music, games, etc...a RAID 6 or 60 seems more reasonable to me - mostly because I already have a bunch of HDD's and even if 2 drives fail I could get the data back unlike with an external backup. I could run a scheduled backup to an external too at night I guess but I don't feel comfortable leaving my PC on when I'm not in front of it because of the wc loop. (Yes I'm paranoid). So, is this a terrible idea?

 

[PsyKhiqZero]

RAID is designed to add redundancy to a system (Redundant Array of Independent Devices). Redundancy is a systems ability to keep running in a event of a failure. Basically it's all about keeping uptime.

The reason RAID is not recommended for backups is that it will copy everything. This includes data corruption. It also does not protect against user error or provide a means to roll data back. When comparing RAID 1 vs a plain back up you still lose the same amount of total drive space.

There is software out there to help automate your backups. This way they can run daily during downtime.

 

[USAFRet]

Done correctly, backing up huge amounts of data does NOT take ages.

Read the first post here here for my current backup situation:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-3383768/backup-situation-home.html

Incremental backups don't take long at all. No need to copy/backup the same files every single day. Only what has changed since yesterday.

RAID does have its place. That's what my NAS box is...4 x 4TB, RAID 5.
But there is also a full weekly backup of that. As a backstop against actual data loss. Not just a drive loss.

If you're already doing backups, a RAID 5 or 6 is no problem. The issue comes in where people assume a RAID array is the backup.

 

[captaincharisma]

I'm probably missing something here but how come people keep saying that an external backup drive is safer than RAID? I mean safer than RAID0 sure but even 1 seems safer or technically to me it looks kimda the same as a backup drive.
I'm looking for an external soution for storage (1ssd in case and a 2T storage for games etc but I need to put my other 10T or so outside the box. I'm thinking of setting up a raid 6 for the externals with 2 hot swap spares. (and knock on wood but I've never had any other issues than a drive failing, notably an external one at that) Is it really such a bad idea?

A RAID of any type (*) only helps with a physical drive fail. Which is somewhat rare.
All the other ways of data loss....does nothing for it. Accidental deletion, virus, ransomware...nope.

* Excepting of course RAID 0. That doesn't even do that.

That's true but backing up huge amounts of data to an external drive takes ages. I mean I keep my sensitive data backed up in 3 different places (2 off site) but for mass storage like movies, music, games, etc...a RAID 6 or 60 seems more reasonable to me - mostly because I already have a bunch of HDD's and even if 2 drives fail I could get the data back unlike with an external backup. I could run a scheduled backup to an external too at night I guess but I don't feel comfortable leaving my PC on when I'm not in front of it because of the wc loop. (Yes I'm paranoid). So, is this a terrible idea?

the point of an external drive being safer is that its "external" meaning you can do a backup and disconnect it from the computer and there is only one point of fail. a RAID is internal and you has multiple points of failure. even with a RAID array it can still fail to rebuild the array after replacing a failed drive and you will still have lost all your data

 

[gasaraki]

RAID is not backup. RAID constantly changes with your PC. If you messed up Windows, RAID is not going to help you. A backup will though.

You can use an internal drive as 'backup'.

 

[Guest]

Done correctly, backing up huge amounts of data does NOT take ages.

Read the first post here here for my current backup situation:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-3383768/backup-situation-home.html

Incremental backups don't take long at all. No need to copy/backup the same files every single day. Only what has changed since yesterday.

RAID does have its place. That's what my NAS box is...4 x 4TB, RAID 5.
But there is also a full weekly backup of that. As a backstop against actual data loss. Not just a drive loss.

If you're already doing backups, a RAID 5 or 6 is no problem. The issue comes in where people assume a RAID array is the backup.

Wow, that's...elaborate o.o It works fine if you leave your PC on overnight but I don't. At least not this one. I could do the backups the way you described if I built a secondary, cheap PC connected to my main one (which I have to do anyway because I don't have more space in the primary for internal drives anyway) and get something like a NAS on top of that.

 

[Guest]

RAID is not backup. RAID constantly changes with your PC. If you messed up Windows, RAID is not going to help you. A backup will though.

You can use an internal drive as 'backup'.

About that, honest question not sarcasm or anything, why would I need to back my OS up when reinstalling it is so quick and simple? (Unless you have some nasty, elaborate setup on it that took ages to configure just right. In that case yeah, I get it)

 

[Guest]

I'm probably missing something here but how come people keep saying that an external backup drive is safer than RAID? I mean safer than RAID0 sure but even 1 seems safer or technically to me it looks kimda the same as a backup drive.
I'm looking for an external soution for storage (1ssd in case and a 2T storage for games etc but I need to put my other 10T or so outside the box. I'm thinking of setting up a raid 6 for the externals with 2 hot swap spares. (and knock on wood but I've never had any other issues than a drive failing, notably an external one at that) Is it really such a bad idea?

A RAID of any type (*) only helps with a physical drive fail. Which is somewhat rare.
All the other ways of data loss....does nothing for it. Accidental deletion, virus, ransomware...nope.

* Excepting of course RAID 0. That doesn't even do that.

That's true but backing up huge amounts of data to an external drive takes ages. I mean I keep my sensitive data backed up in 3 different places (2 off site) but for mass storage like movies, music, games, etc...a RAID 6 or 60 seems more reasonable to me - mostly because I already have a bunch of HDD's and even if 2 drives fail I could get the data back unlike with an external backup. I could run a scheduled backup to an external too at night I guess but I don't feel comfortable leaving my PC on when I'm not in front of it because of the wc loop. (Yes I'm paranoid). So, is this a terrible idea?

the point of an external drive being safer is that its "external" meaning you can do a backup and disconnect it from the computer and there is only one point of fail. a RAID is internal and you has multiple points of failure. even with a RAID array it can still fail to rebuild the array after replacing a failed drive and you will still have lost all your data

I get that but I also keep thinking that exactly because the 'backup' would occur once a day at best, what if myinternal drive fails before that happens and I loose hours upon hours of work? That's why I currently have all stuff I work on in a Dropbox folder, instant sync but it's getting full pretty fast and I don't want to delete anything because I want instant access from anywhere in case I need to make adjustments.　

 

[PsyKhiqZero]

Backup can happen as often as you need them too. You could have it done every 30 minutes if you wanted really. If for example is was just a small folder you needed to keep backed up, it wouldn't even be that unreasonable.

Different folders can have different backup schedules. For example a media folder can be set to backup once a week, while the documents folder can backup every nite.

 

[Guest]

Backup can happen as often as you need them too. You could have it done every 30 minutes if you wanted really. If for example is was just a small folder you needed to keep backed up, it wouldn't even be that unreasonable.

Different folders can have different backup schedules. For example a media folder can be set to backup once a week, while the documents folder can backup every nite.

Sounds reasonable. How would I set up backups for the following setup: main rig with 2 drives - 1SSD for Windows which I mostly use for gaming, 1SSD for Linux that I have set up just so and would really hate having to redo so this particular one is already backed up, and a dedicated HDD for storage of files I usually need immediate access to, including work and school stuff most of which are currently in a rapidly filling Dropbox folder (2T). (The main computer has a custom water cooling loop that I put together for the first time so tbh I don't trust it enough to leave it on or even powered when I'm not around so the backups from that would have to occur while I'm doing other stuff on it.
In an old, very old, secondary computer 8x1T of disks storing data I don't usually need immediate access to, this was the part I'm considering a raid for.
If I buy just an external HDD rack, could I set up backups from both the main rig and the secondary storage PC to that? Any software suggestions that would work?