Ram 4000mhz safe ?

[DukiNuki]

Hey guys

if i get Asus Maximus VIII Impact which is capable of running memories at 4000mhz with xmp
and get G.Skill TridentZ 16GB 4000mhz DDR4 and run them on this am i at more risk of failure than if i went with 3200mhz sticks ?

what are the risks of getting a 4000mhz memory ? ( note that both 3200 and 4000 run at 1.35v )

would you recommend 4000mhz over 3200mhz just for gaming ?

 

[Robert Cook]

well the timing of the RAM have to be good as well. for instance the world record for RAM OC is something over 5.0GHz, but the latency and other timings are so bad, it probably is not much if better than regular RAM. the trident memory by Gskill is great stuff, if it is rated for 4000MHz, then it will run it with no ill effects. RAM is very hard to kill, you would either have to over volt it, or step on it a lot. quite a few tests exist which have shown that even between decent RAM and super fast RAM, that there is at most a few FPS difference, and not all the time. so totally up to you, you are looking at a great board, might as well get the great RAM as well?

 

[slyverine]

4000Mhz is overkill for gaming. Even 3200Mhz is overkill. How high and stable your RAM can run depend on your cpu as well.

 

[techgeek]

Just a word of caution with high speed RAM. Although the motherboard says that it's compatible with the advertised speed (as in you can select it in the BIOS), the actual limiting factor will the the IMC in your CPU.

Also since Haswell, OC RAM speeds limit OC core clock speeds. It's fairly well understood that core clock is king when it comes to overclocking. You would never want a memory OC to limit the CPU OC. So even if your IMC can run @ 4000, if you are overclocking your CPU and it limits the core clock to run the RAM at that speed, it's not worth it.

 

[DukiNuki]

So its either ( God its so hard to decide , i saw benchmarks that show how ram sometimes Improves fps in some games like Fallout 4 but cost of getting ASUS ROG plus 4000 Memory is much higher and 2 fps gain does not really justify it , by the way i don't think upcoming GTX 1080 Rog will have difficulty running any of these games on 1080p with pair of 3200mhz but anyway , i really want something monster but also dont wanna waste money on nothing )

MSI Z170I Gaming Pro AC + TridentZ 16GB 3200 14 CAS

or

Asus Maximus VIII Impact + TridentZ 16GB 4000 19 CAS

 

[Robert Cook]

4000Mhz is overkill for gaming. Even 3200Mhz is overkill. How high and stable your RAM can run depend on your cpu as well.

with motherboards being able to set ratios of clock speeds, it is very easy to get RAM running at high speeds without pushing the CPU base clock too high. as I said, the timings matter more than the speed. 5000MHz at CL31 is trash, 2400 at CL12 is great. then there are the other timings which also play a large role. just saying the fast sounding one is overkill does not really clarify the matter.

 

[Robert Cook]

Perhaps the ROG board and the 3200, that is trident stuff as well, and looks plenty fast as well. should save some money. what is the processor you were looking at? if you want to do hardcore overclocking then the Maximus is the answer, if you do not plan to OC much then perhaps just get the MSI board.

 

[DukiNuki]

techgeek thanks for the tip never heard that before anywhere , if i only new more tips like that i would be able to save a alot building a new computer .

i Didn't quite get where the limitation is applied cz i'm a noob 😀 , the cpu im going with is i7 6700k and i don't wanna OC it so the highest number it will ever work on is 4.2 Ghz which is its own turbo mode . i might do a slight OC after many years when it might struggle to run some games which is unlikely , ok you got the info can you compare these two ?

i7 6700 + 4000mhz vs i7 6700 + 3200mhz , which one doesnt have the limitation you just mentioned , how do these two compare in performance and limitations and stability . and note that im mainly doing gaming so i just need good performance not a unstable waste of money

 

[DukiNuki]

Robert Cook if i run the memory at 4000 or 3200 that means that my CPU should work on heavier load ? like over 4.2ghz ?

 

[DukiNuki]

perhaps msi 😀 ? its like i should try to avoid msi boards . the one i mentioned has cool features and i love how cool its antennas look ( if i get another board i should pay extra for pair of good wifi antennas ) , but i'm not basing my purchase on antennas but they sure make difference when trying to pick one

 

[DukiNuki]

before thinking about 4000mhz i was gonna go with 3200 cas 16 over cas 14 to save money and i thought it would be useless but later i saw this benchmark of few games where ram speed made difference and i considered 4000 . so to make it clear i cant decide between 3200 14 3200 16 and 4000 19

 

[Robert Cook]

Robert Cook if i run the memory at 4000 or 3200 that means that my CPU should work on heavier load ? like over 4.2ghz ?

neither one should hold back the CPU even when overclocking. so you can overclock you processor to lets say 4.8 GHz ( if you can) and the RAM should keep up unless you raised the base clock a ton and did not change the RAM to base clock ratio. but raising the base clock a lot is not a great idea in the first place. As for the boards, the MSI one is solid, it is just not as crazy of a board as the ROG one. that in no way makes it bad, it just means that it was not designed to be the be all end all of little motherboards. if it is in your price range, then go for it. sorry if this is not very helpful, but in the end as it is with most PC builds it is really up to the builder.

 

[techgeek]

The strength or weakness of the IMC is CPU dependent. Running higher than JEDEC standard RAM speeds is overclocking (though not in the most common sense), so since you are running the IMC past where it's guaranteed to work, it's a gamble. You might get a CPU that will run @ 4000 no problem, or you could get one that doesn't, it's a silicon lottery.

If you don't plan to overclock your CPU, then you don't have to worry limiting a CPU overclock by running faster than standard memory.

Unless the gaming paradigm changes drastically in the next few years, this CPU will not limit you in any games that you play for it's practical life time.

As slyverine mentioned before though, high speed RAM is not going to give you any performance gains in gaming. You'd be better off saving your money and putting it towards a better graphics card where you will actually be able to tell the difference. The only time fast RAM makes a difference in gaming is when you are using the iGPU. However no "serious" gamer would ever use the iGPU for gaming.

The only time that most of this very high speed RAM shows any performance differences is in Hyper Pi, or synthetic benchmarks. Any time game benchmarks show a frame or two difference in favor of the high speed RAM, the reader needs to consider that it falls within the margin of error. Meaning if your run the test multiple times, the difference would average out to be the same.

 

[techgeek]

Robert Cook if i run the memory at 4000 or 3200 that means that my CPU should work on heavier load ? like over 4.2ghz ?

neither one should hold back the CPU even when overclocking. so you can overclock you processor to lets say 4.8 GHz ( if you can) and the RAM should keep up unless you raised the base clock a ton and did not change the RAM to base clock ratio. but raising the base clock a lot is not a great idea in the first place. As for the boards, the MSI one is solid, it is just not as crazy of a board as the ROG one. that in no way makes it bad, it just means that it was not designed to be the be all end all of little motherboards. if it is in your price range, then go for it. sorry if this is not very helpful, but in the end as it is with most PC builds it is really up to the builder.

Here is a direct excerpt from the link I'm providing:

But – and this is a big, bold, italicized, very notable but – overclocking a Haswell CPU at the same time as overclocking the RAM will reduce your IMC’s ability to overclock or reduce your CPU’s ability to overclock. You have to choose one or the other, which is why the CPU came first in this guide. Core speed is king; remember that. If it comes down to choosing which to push farther, the CPU should always win in your calculations.

3 Step Guide to Overclock Your i7 / i5 Haswell Platform

While this guide is for Haswell, it is very much relevant to Skylake.

 

[techgeek]

@ OP, have a look at this link. Legit Reviews tests the affect high RAM speeds have on real world performance. It pretty much shows flat performance regardless of what RAM speed is used.

DDR4 Memory Scaling on Intel Z170 – Finding The Best DDR4 Memory Kit Speed


Part of the reason that performance doesn't scale well with memory bandwidth is that Intel has done a great job of their cache design (L1, L2, L3). It pretty much hides limitations in memory bandwidth.

 

[DukiNuki]

Great info guys , so ill go for 3200 and save some money for other parts just few questions

1. i know msi board is not as crazy as ROG but when you compare them they both give equal features and power , ok ROG gives higher ram support but thats it . msi has two usb 3.1 for front , no such thing on ASUS ROG , msi stated that it supports WiDi , didnt see that on asus page but guess all wifi boards support that . why should i consider ROG over MSI ? what makes this board better than the rest ? guarantee and ram support aside

2. What kind of users go for 4000mhz sticks ?

 

[Robert Cook]

Robert Cook if i run the memory at 4000 or 3200 that means that my CPU should work on heavier load ? like over 4.2ghz ?

neither one should hold back the CPU even when overclocking. so you can overclock you processor to lets say 4.8 GHz ( if you can) and the RAM should keep up unless you raised the base clock a ton and did not change the RAM to base clock ratio. but raising the base clock a lot is not a great idea in the first place. As for the boards, the MSI one is solid, it is just not as crazy of a board as the ROG one. that in no way makes it bad, it just means that it was not designed to be the be all end all of little motherboards. if it is in your price range, then go for it. sorry if this is not very helpful, but in the end as it is with most PC builds it is really up to the builder.

Here is a direct excerpt from the link I'm providing:

But – and this is a big, bold, italicized, very notable but – overclocking a Haswell CPU at the same time as overclocking the RAM will reduce your IMC’s ability to overclock or reduce your CPU’s ability to overclock. You have to choose one or the other, which is why the CPU came first in this guide. Core speed is king; remember that. If it comes down to choosing which to push farther, the CPU should always win in your calculations.

3 Step Guide to Overclock Your i7 / i5 Haswell Platform

While this guide is for Haswell, it is very much relevant to Skylake.

see in actual practice, I never ran into a situation where I had to choose. an example was when dealing with X99, I simply ran a base clock of 105 and a multiplier of 44 yielding 4.620 GHz. the memory was rated for I believe 3200, but natuarly it was not at that speed with a 105 base clock, so I simply chose to alter the CPU to RAM clock ratio to 1:1.333.... which yielded soemthing like 139 MHz base for the RAM which resulted in the memory running at 3000MHz or so. technically I lost some memory speed, but the results were fine, it is still a huge boost from 2133.

 

[DukiNuki]

that article kinda convinced me to go for even cheaper options as it really makes no real world gaming difference and i ask my self is it really necessary to pay for anything above 2133 ? but guess 3200 is a good balance and a safe and future proof choice

and one last question

3. if i'm going for 3200 should i go for cas 14 for 25 bucks more or cas 16 ?

 

[Robert Cook]

Great info guys , so ill go for 3200 and save some money for other parts just few questions

1. i know msi board is not as crazy as ROG but when you compare them they both give equal features and power , ok ROG gives higher ram support but thats it . msi has two usb 3.1 for front , no such thing on ASUS ROG , msi stated that it supports WiDi , didnt see that on asus page but guess all wifi boards support that . why should i consider ROG over MSI ? what makes this board better than the rest ? guarantee and ram support aside

2. What kind of users go for 4000mhz sticks ?

the ROG board is great for if you have to have the highest overclocks. a lot of it is simply the status of knowing the board could be used for LN2 overclocking, but never actually using it for that. so if you want to overclock like crazy and care about every single MHz, then go ROG, or if you can afford to and like the board go ROG, but if not, really it is a statement.

as for the 4000MHz ram I am not sure. there are now 4300MHz kits around, but I do not see the point. I think it is supposed to be for overclockers, but frankly pre overclocked RAM sounds no fun to me.

 

[Robert Cook]

that article kinda convinced me to go for even cheaper options as it really makes no real world gaming difference and i ask my self is it really necessary to pay for anything above 2133 ? but guess 3200 is a good balance and a safe and future proof choice

and one last question

3. if i'm going for 3200 should i go for cas 14 for 25 bucks more or cas 16 ?

I would go for the 14, that is a fair difference in latency there. what brand is this 16 stuff?

 

[techgeek]

Robert Cook if i run the memory at 4000 or 3200 that means that my CPU should work on heavier load ? like over 4.2ghz ?

neither one should hold back the CPU even when overclocking. so you can overclock you processor to lets say 4.8 GHz ( if you can) and the RAM should keep up unless you raised the base clock a ton and did not change the RAM to base clock ratio. but raising the base clock a lot is not a great idea in the first place. As for the boards, the MSI one is solid, it is just not as crazy of a board as the ROG one. that in no way makes it bad, it just means that it was not designed to be the be all end all of little motherboards. if it is in your price range, then go for it. sorry if this is not very helpful, but in the end as it is with most PC builds it is really up to the builder.

Here is a direct excerpt from the link I'm providing:

But – and this is a big, bold, italicized, very notable but – overclocking a Haswell CPU at the same time as overclocking the RAM will reduce your IMC’s ability to overclock or reduce your CPU’s ability to overclock. You have to choose one or the other, which is why the CPU came first in this guide. Core speed is king; remember that. If it comes down to choosing which to push farther, the CPU should always win in your calculations.

3 Step Guide to Overclock Your i7 / i5 Haswell Platform

While this guide is for Haswell, it is very much relevant to Skylake.

see in actual practice, I never ran into a situation where I had to choose. an example was when dealing with X99, I simply ran a base clock of 105 and a multiplier of 44 yielding 4.620 GHz. the memory was rated for I believe 3200, but natuarly it was not at that speed with a 105 base clock, so I simply chose to alter the CPU to RAM clock ratio to 1:1.333.... which yielded soemthing like 139 MHz base for the RAM which resulted in the memory running at 3000MHz or so. technically I lost some memory speed, but the results were fine, it is still a huge boost from 2133.

While the number 3000 is larger than 2133, it provided no practical boost in performance. Unless you ran Hyper Pi or were looking at synthetics like SiSoft Sandra or AIDA64 memory benchmarks.

I am running a i7 4770K and initially I had 8GB of DDR3 1600 RAM. Then I moved to GSKill Trident 16GB DDR3 2400, the net affect in anything realworld was a big fat 0 improvement. Neither the speed or increased capacity improved anything. Though I totally expected this, I wanted the additional memory size for "future proofing". I've had it almost 2 years and I still could have gotten by on 8GB without an issue.

 

[DukiNuki]

if that test had ran on Fallout 4 and Arma 3 it would probably be a bit different but i don't think more than 0-4 fps

 

[Robert Cook]

Robert Cook if i run the memory at 4000 or 3200 that means that my CPU should work on heavier load ? like over 4.2ghz ?

neither one should hold back the CPU even when overclocking. so you can overclock you processor to lets say 4.8 GHz ( if you can) and the RAM should keep up unless you raised the base clock a ton and did not change the RAM to base clock ratio. but raising the base clock a lot is not a great idea in the first place. As for the boards, the MSI one is solid, it is just not as crazy of a board as the ROG one. that in no way makes it bad, it just means that it was not designed to be the be all end all of little motherboards. if it is in your price range, then go for it. sorry if this is not very helpful, but in the end as it is with most PC builds it is really up to the builder.

Here is a direct excerpt from the link I'm providing:

But – and this is a big, bold, italicized, very notable but – overclocking a Haswell CPU at the same time as overclocking the RAM will reduce your IMC’s ability to overclock or reduce your CPU’s ability to overclock. You have to choose one or the other, which is why the CPU came first in this guide. Core speed is king; remember that. If it comes down to choosing which to push farther, the CPU should always win in your calculations.

3 Step Guide to Overclock Your i7 / i5 Haswell Platform

While this guide is for Haswell, it is very much relevant to Skylake.

see in actual practice, I never ran into a situation where I had to choose. an example was when dealing with X99, I simply ran a base clock of 105 and a multiplier of 44 yielding 4.620 GHz. the memory was rated for I believe 3200, but natuarly it was not at that speed with a 105 base clock, so I simply chose to alter the CPU to RAM clock ratio to 1:1.333.... which yielded soemthing like 139 MHz base for the RAM which resulted in the memory running at 3000MHz or so. technically I lost some memory speed, but the results were fine, it is still a huge boost from 2133.

While the number 3000 is larger than 2133, it provided no practical boost in performance. Unless you ran Hyper Pi or were looking at synthetics like SiSoft Sandra or AIDA64 memory benchmarks.

I am running a i7 4770K and initially I had 8GB of DDR3 1600 RAM. Then I moved to GSKill Trident 16GB DDR3 2400, the net affect in anything realworld was a big fat 0 improvement. Neither the speed or increased capacity improved anything. Though I totally expected this, I wanted the additional memory size for "future proofing". Though I've had it almost 2 years and I still could have gotten by on 8GB without an issue.

well it was a slight boost as I also pushed the latency down by one. although my main point was really It was still a 800MHz overclock, so choosing is not really a limit. I agree, that the difference is negligible, could you call it a statement overclock?

 

[techgeek]

Don't get me wrong, I love the bigger numbers too. However many new builders get the idea that those bigger numbers translate into tangible performance increases. While for some system components this statement holds true, RAM just isn't one of them anymore. It used to be more important, but it's really diminished since pretty much Ivy Bridge and newer.

So I tend to let new builders / novice builders know that while they will have greater memory bandwidth in theory, in the practical world they probably wouldn't know the difference outside of benchmark software.

@ the OP, if you looked at that Legit Review link I provided, there was a game (forget which one) the slowest RAM gave a average framerate of 117.5 where the fastest RAM "improved" it to 121.0. This equates to less than 3% difference. Now compare the price difference (I don't have the numbers), it will be a lot more than 3% increase in cost. Of course you should expect this somewhat as premium parts come with a premium price, but I expect that most users want a little more than 3% improvement for their dollar bills.

Rather than feeling bad that this is the way it is, users should be happy. It's one purchase where you can safely spend less of your overall budget and not get penalized heavily for having a budget. The same can't be said for GPU's or in some cases CPU's (though for gaming, the fastest / most threads doesn't translate into better performance either).

 

[DukiNuki]

Both 14 cas and 16 cas are TridentZ but theres like 25 bucks difference . just wanted to know if 14 cas is worth the 25 bucks 😀

i really like ROG boards but they are overkill for my situation as im not OCing but still it screams quality and high endness , damn

my wild side still says burn that money and go ROG + 4000 but when i actually think 😀 i wanna go 3200 + ROG or MSI ( that s another night mare i gotta go through deciding )