News Rare Earth Metal Pricing Skyrockets, May Result in Higher Electronics Pricing

gargoylenest

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yeah, I think we can see a pattern here... Wind blew on the wrong side of the factory, chip price hike...too much sun, chip price hike...wife of ceo was in a bad mood this morning, chip price hike...They just chose to raise the price, now they are telling us its not greed, its everybody else's fault. They do the same with gaz, electricity, milk, etc.
 

fball922

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yeah, I think we can see a pattern here... Wind blew on the wrong side of the factory, chip price hike...too much sun, chip price hike...wife of ceo was in a bad mood this morning, chip price hike...They just chose to raise the price, now they are telling us its not greed, its everybody else's fault. They do the same with gaz, electricity, milk, etc.
I mean, these are commodities where pricing is very publicly visible. When the cost of inputs rise, so does the price of the output...
 

gargoylenest

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What I mean is, they are not just passing the cost down to the customer. They take advantage of a very small rise in input material price to make it a medium rise in output material price. I mean, there is not 200g of copper per chip. The main cost of a chip is the technology, knowledge and research. Material price can not be more than the weight of the chip, and most of it is silicon.
 
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spongiemaster

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What I mean is, they are not just passing the cost down to the customer. They take advantage of a very small rise in input material price to make it a medium rise in output material price. I mean, there is not 200g of copper per chip. The main cost of a chip is the technology, knowledge and research. Material price can not be more than the weight of the chip, and most of it is silicon.
Ok, and what prices increases are you specifically talking about? Despite all the talk of price increases, Ryzen 5000 CPU's are as cheap now as they have ever been, selling below list usually. Most Intel CPU's are selling at list or below as well.
 

InvalidError

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Ok, and what prices increases are you specifically talking about? Despite all the talk of price increases, Ryzen 5000 CPU's are as cheap now as they have ever been, selling below list usually. Most Intel CPU's are selling at list or below as well.
CPUs contain very little valuable raw material: a few grams of copper in the IHS and substrate, that's about it, only a few dimes worth. Most of the value comes from all of the transformation steps required to make them so AMD and Intel can easily afford to eat the minute raw material cost increase on fat-margins $150+ parts.

GPU board manufacturers on the other hand are using raw material cost increases as an excuse for jacking up most of their SKUs' MSRP by $100+ over their usual markups over the new post-covid AMD/Nvidia MSRPs despite the true raw material cost increasing by less than $5 if we assume the whole GPU's weight is copper, the most valuable element present in a meaningful quantity.

What will hurt the worst a few months from now will be TSMC's 10% and 20% because-we-can greed tax on sub-7nm and 12nm respectively.
 

bigdragon

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Hey, these price increases need to stop. Grocery stores and electronics manufacturers are telling me I need to go job hunting for a higher salary or go back to "college years behaviors" given all the inflationary cost increases this year. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm really noticing these recent price spikes. One would hope that the increased costs are actually going to the employees, but people are as disgruntled as ever right now.

Rare earth metals, oil, meat production, farming, chip shortages, covid....it all feels like companies are seeking the ceiling of what people can pay now. Customers and employees be screwed -- gotta get those investors all the money.
 
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that's grim news...

just when the price of 1660 Super lowered from 600 usd to 500 usd over here in my country... I thought things were getting better.

now, prices might go up again..

need gather funds more quickly to get one asap..
 

spongiemaster

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CPUs contain very little valuable raw material: a few grams of copper in the IHS and substrate, that's about it, only a few dimes worth. Most of the value comes from all of the transformation steps required to make them so AMD and Intel can easily afford to eat the minute raw material cost increase on fat-margins $150+ parts.
The person I quoted said "chip." Then, as you said he mentioned how little of the cost is for raw materials cost to begin with compared to other factors. Chips have not seen any really increase in prices at the consumer level, so I asked for examples, and you gave non relevant ones.

GPU board manufacturers on the other hand are using raw material cost increases as an excuse for jacking up most of their SKUs' MSRP by $100+ over their usual markups over the new post-covid AMD/Nvidia MSRPs despite the true raw material cost increasing by less than $5 if we assume the whole GPU's weight is copper, the most valuable element present in a meaningful quantity.
GPU manufacturers have given multiple reasons for board cost increases, not just raw materials, but that has no real relevance to anything. Firstly, in the current market, except for FE cards, it's pretty difficult to figure out what actually is MSRP for a GPU right now. There is no way for us to know who in the chain is increasing prices and by how much. 2ndly, as you said, pretty much any reason they give is an excuse. No board partner is going to publicly state that the market is completely jacked up right now, and we want a piece of that so we're increasing our prices. I have no problem with any of them actually doing that, from a smart business perspective, they should be doing that. IMO, it is ridiculous that scalpers are pulling in more profits per board than the board partners and Nvidia/AMD, but again, no company is going to send out a press release that that's what they're doing. So, AIB's can say prices are going up because raw materials are more expensive, but whatever public excuse they come up with doesn't matter. If they weren't saying raw material costs increases, they would come up with something else.
 
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JoBalz

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Time to tap Alaska and stop this nonsense.
So, do you have inside knowledge where in Alaska the ore deposits containing rare earth elements are located. Or even if such deposits exist at all. Just throwing out the name of a place and saying we should open it up and "stop this nonsense" has no value in the conversation.
 
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JoBalz

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yeah, I think we can see a pattern here... Wind blew on the wrong side of the factory, chip price hike...too much sun, chip price hike...wife of ceo was in a bad mood this morning, chip price hike...They just chose to raise the price, now they are telling us its not greed, its everybody else's fault. They do the same with gaz, electricity, milk, etc.
Try looking at that list again. How many of the rare earth elements listed are involved with the production of batteries, particularly vehicle batteries. As countries phase out petroleum-based engines, rare earth elements will only increase in value unless exploration locates many more ore deposits that are economically feasible to mine. Then there is the use of rare earths in solar cells. Again, as we move away from petroleum, solar power will increase in importance which will require more rare earth elements to manufacture solar panels. And of course, the electronics industry will continue to grow and require rare earth elements. Either new exploitable ore deposits have to be found, or we'll see prices continue to rise.
 

InvalidError

Titan
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Either new exploitable ore deposits have to be found, or we'll see prices continue to rise.
You don't necessarily need to find new ore: you could also invest in more cost-effective methods of reusing and recycling what has already been mined. Modern automotive battery packs designed with recycling in mind are expected to be 95+% recyclable, so the pressure on new lithium and other EV battery materials will drop significantly once the market approaches saturation. There is also a dozen alternative energy storage technologies being developed for utility/campus-scale storage to reduce pressure on lithium cell supply, though many of those just shift pressure to different relatively rare elements like vanadium.

Worst case, we have hydrogen-based storage. One of the worst options for charge-discharge cycle efficiency but we have a nearly infinite supply of it as long as we don't shoot it all off into space. A fair amount of research is going into finding more efficient and practical hydrogen cycles.
 
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King_V

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These items aren't actually "rare" per se - as I recall, a good part of this is because China was more than willing to give the world these materials on the cheap, by ignoring pollution issues, as well as worker safety.

And the world looked the other way, got complacent with it, and decided not to use their own sources or worry about extracting rare earths more cleanly/safely.

Pretty much the same thing the US did with plastic recycling. We outsourced the problem, and now China doesn't want our plastics anymore.
 
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Jul 25, 2021
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not sure if it's because of this rare earth metal news... but gpu prices have jumped again in our local stores. 1050ti increase to 260 usd from 230 usd. And1660 Super being sold at 500-600 usd each are all sold out. I phone two stores once each week, it's how I know their prices, because waiting for a 1660 super to become available.
 

Kridian

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So, do you have inside knowledge where in Alaska the ore deposits containing rare earth elements are located. Or even if such deposits exist at all. Just throwing out the name of a place and saying we should open it up and "stop this nonsense" has no value in the conversation.
THEY EXIST (an ocean of copper!) and I'M NOT TELLING YOU WHERE. (y)
 

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