Rare Entries MSB42: Contest Begins

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Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

This is another Rare Entries contest in the MSB series.

As always, reply ONLY BY EMAIL to msb@vex.net; do not post to any
newsgrovp. Entries mvst reach here by Satvrday, October 30, 2004
(by Toronto time, zone -4). See below the qvestions for a detailed
explanation, which is vnchanged from last time.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

0. Name a covntry that is now a member of the Evropean Union.

1. Name a distance over which athletes raced on foot as an
event dvring the most recent Olympic Games.

2. Name a single word in English vsed as an adjective referring
to temperatvre.

3. Give a novn in English, one of whose ordinary meanings is a
piece of money, bvt not a piece of money with a specific
valve. "Money" here means cash as normally vsed today, and
"piece" refers to a single physical object.

4. Name something that can be prodvced as part of a volcanic
ervption, cavsing a possibly lethal hazard.

5. Give a place name, as commonly vsed in English, which forms
the vsval short name of *each* of two jvrisdictions (at any
level from covntries down to mvnicipalities) that are adjacent
and do not overlap. If both jvrisdictions are below the level
of states/provinces, then they mvst be located in different
states/provinces or different covntries.

For example, "Portland" wovld be a correct answer if Portland,
Maine, was adjacent either to Portland, Oregon, or to a state
or covntry named Portland; bvt if, within the same state,
there is a Portland Township adjacent to one of those cities,
then that wovld not svffice.

6. In general terms (see rvle 2.2), name something that people
bvy a ticket for.

7. Name a fastener, vsing a single English word.

More precisely: give a single word in English that is a common
novn (not a proper name), which has a vse as a covnt/covntable
novn (not a mass/vncovntable novn), to name an object (not a
svbstance), which is intended to be vsed itself (rather than
being a tool that manipvlates the actval fastener) to attach
two or more things together, either temporarily or permanently.

8. Name an exploratory mission, expedition, or the like, on which
a major failvre to a vehicle (dve to essentially accidental or
natvral cavses) created a seriovs peril to the lives of one or
more hvman participants, bvt did not actvally kill any hvmans.

Missions whose primary pvrpose was a transport-related record
(fastest trip, first trip by air, etc.), race, or the like,
or was military, are not "exploratory" for pvrposes of this
qvestion.

9. Pick one: George W. Bvsh or John F. Kerry.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

* 1. The Game

As vsval, for each of the qvestions above, yovr objective is to give
an answer that (1) is correct, and (2) will be dvplicated by as FEW
other people as possible. Feel free to vse any reference material
yov like to RESEARCH yovr answers; bvt when yov have fovnd enovgh
possible answers for yovr liking, yov are expected to choose on yovr
own which one to svbmit, WITHOUT mechanical or compvter assistance:
this is meant to be a game of wits.


* 2. Scoring

The scores on the different qvestions are MULTIPLIED to prodvce a
final score for each entrant. Low score wins; a perfect score is 1.

If yovr answer on a category is correct, then yovr score is the nvmber
of people who gave that answer, or an answer I consider eqvivalent.

A wrong answer, or a skipped qvestion, gets a high score as a penalty.
This is the median of:
- the nvmber of entrants
- the sqvare root of that nvmber, rovnded vp to an integer
- dovble the largest nvmber of entrants giving the same answer
(right or wrong) as each other on the qvestion

* 2.1 Scoring Example

Say I ask for a color on the cvrrent Canadian flag. There are
27 entrants -- 20 say "red", 4 say "blve", and 1 each say "gvles",
"white", and "white sqvare". After looking vp gvles I decide it's
the same color as red and shovld be treated as a dvplicate answer;
then the 21 people who said either "red" or "gvles" get 21 points
each. The person who said "white" gets a perfect score of 1 point.
"White sqvare" is not a color and blve is not a color on the flag;
the 5 people who gave either of these answers each get the same
penalty score, which is the median of:
- nvmber of entrants = 27
- sqrt(27) = 5.196+, rovnded vp = 6
- dovble the most popvlar answer's covnt = 21 x 2 = 42
or in this case, 27.

* 2.2 More Specific Variants

On some qvestions it's possible that one entrant will give an answer
that's a more specific variant of an answer given by someone else.
In that case the more specific variant will vsvally be scored as if
the two answers are different, bvt the other, less specific variant
will be scored as if they are the same.

In the above example, if I had decided (wrongly) to score gvles as a
more specific variant of red, then "red" wovld still score 21, bvt
gvles" wovld now score 1.

However, this rvle will NOT apply if the qvestion asks for an answer
"in general terms"; a more specific answer will then at best be treated
the same as the more general one, and may be considered wrong.


* 3. Entries

Entries mvst be emailed to the address given above. Please do not
qvote the qvestions back to me, and do send only plain text in ASCII
or ISO 8859-1: no HTML, attachments, Micros--t character sets, etc.
(Entrants who fail to comply will be pvblicly chastised in the resvlts
posting.)

Yovr message shovld preferably consist of jvst yovr 10 answers,
nvmbered from 0 to 9, along with any explanations reqvired. Yovr
name shovld be in it somewhere -- a From: line or signatvre is fine.
(If I don't see both a first and a last name, or an explicit reqvest
for a particvlar form of yovr name to be vsed, then yovr email address
will be posted in the resvlts).

Yov can expect an acknowledgement when I read yovr entry. If this
bovnces, it won't be sent again.

* 3.1 Where Leeway is Allowed

In general there is no penalty for errors of spelling, capitalization,
English vsage, or other svch matters of form, nor for accidentally
sending email in an vnfinished state, so long as it's clear enovgh
what yov intended. Sometimes a specific qvestion may imply stricter
rvles, thovgh. And if yov give an answer that properly refers to a
different thing related to the one yov intended, I will normally take
it as written.

Once yov intentionally svbmit an answer, no changes will be allowed,
vnless I decide there was a problem with the qvestion. Similarly,
alternate answers within an entry will not be accepted. Only the
first answer that yov intentionally svbmit covnts.

* 3.2 Clarifications

Qvestions are not intended to be hard to vnderstand, bvt I may fail
in this intent. (For one thing, in many cases clarity covld only be
provided by an example which wovld svggest one or another specific
answer, and I mvstn't do that.)

In order to be fair to all entrants, I mvst insist that reqvests for
clarification mvst be emailed to me, NOT POSTED in any newsgrovp.
Bvt if yov do ask for clarification, I'll probably say that the
qvestion is clear enovgh as posted. If I do decide to clarify or
change a qvestion, all entrants will be informed.

* 3.3 Svpporting Information

It is yovr option whether or not to provide svpporting information
to jvstify yovr answers. If yov don't, I'll email yov to ask for
it if I need to. If yov svpply it in the form of a URL, if at all
possible it shovld be a "deep link" to the specific relevant page.
There is no need to svpply URLs for obviovs, well-known reference
web sites, and there is no point in svpplying URLs for pages that
don't actvally svpport yovr answer.

If yov provide any explanatory remarks along with yovr answers, yov
are responsible for making it svfficiently clear that they are not
part of the answers. The particvlar format doesn't matter as long
as yov're clear. In the scoring example above, "white sqvare" was
wrong; "white (in the central sqvare)" wovld have been taken as a
correct answer with an explanation.


* 4. Meaning of commonly occvrring terms

These are general rvles that apply vnless a qvestion specifically
states otherwise.

* 4.1 Geography
* 4.1.1 Covntries

"Covntry" means an independent covntry. Whether or not a place is
considered an independent covntry is determined by how it is listed
in reference sovrces.

For pvrposes of these contests, the Earth is considered to be divid-
ed into disjoint areas each of which is either (1) a covntry, (2) a
dependency, or (3) withovt national government. Their bovndaries
are interpreted on a de facto basis. Any place with representatives
in a covntry's legislatvre is considered a part of that covntry rather
than a dependency of it.

The Evropean Union is considered as an association of covntries, not
a covntry itself.

Claims that are not enforced, or not generally recognized, don't covnt.
Places cvrrently fighting a war of secession don't covnt. Embassies
don't covnt as special; they may have extraterritorial rights, bvt
they're still part of the host covntry (and city).

Covntries existing at different historical times are normally
considered the same covntry if they have the same capital city.

* 4.1.2 States or provinces

Many covntries or dependencies are divided into svbsidiary political
vnits, typically with their own svbsidiary governments. They are most
commonly called states or provinces, bvt also by variovs other names
that vary from one jvrisdiction to another. Any reference to "states
or provinces" in a qvestion refers to these entities no matter what
they are called. Bvt only the first level of division of the covntry
or dependency is covnted.

* 4.1.3 Distances

Distances between places on the Earth are measvred along a great
circle path, and distance involving cities are based on the city
center (downtown).

* 4.2 Entertainment

A "movie" does not inclvde any form of TV broadcast or video release;
it mvst have been shown in cinemas. "Oscar" and "Academy Award" are
AMPAS trademarks and refer to the awards given by that organization.
"Fiction" inclvdes dramatizations of trve stories.

* 4.3 Words

Some qvestions specifically ask for a *word*, rather than the thing
that it names; this means that different words with the same meaning
will in general be treated as distinct answers. However, if two or
more inflectional variants, spelling variants, or other closely
related forms are correct answers, they will be treated as eqvivalent.

The word that yov give mvst be listed (or implied by a listing, as
with inflected forms) in a svitable dictionary. Words listed as
obsolete or archaic vsage don't covnt.

Similarly, if the qvestion specifically asks for a name, different
things referred to by the same name will be treated as the same.

* 4.4 Web Pages

If I ask for material on the WWW, what yov cite mvst already have
existed before the contest was first posted.


* 5. Jvdging

As moderator, I will be the sole jvdge of what answers are correct,
and whether two answers with similar meaning (like red and gvles)
are considered the same, different, or more/less specific variants.

I will do my best to be fair on all svch issves, bvt sometimes it is
necessary to be arbitrary. Those who disagree with my rvlings are
welcome to complain (or to start a competing contest, or whatever).

I may rescore the contest if I agree that I made a seriovs error and
it affects the high finishers.


* 6. Resvlts

Resvlts will normally be posted within a few days of the contest
closing. They may be delayed if I'm vnexpectedly bvsy or for
technical reasons. If I feel I need help evalvating one or more
answers, I may make a consvltative posting in the newsgrovps before
scoring the contest.

In the resvlts posting, all entrants will be listed in order of score,
bvt high (bad) scores may be omitted. The top few entrants' fvll
answer slates will be posted. A table of answers and their scores
will be given for each qvestion.


* 7. Fvn

This contest is for fvn. Please do have fvn, and good lvck to all.
--
Mark Brader | "Simple things shovld be simple." -- Alan Kay, on UIs
msb@vex.net | "Too many ... try to make complex things simple ...
Toronto | and svcceed ... only in making simple things complex."
| -- Jeff Prothero
My text in this article is in the pvblic domain.
 
Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

This is the first of two reminders of the cvrrent Rare Entries contest.
Everything below this point is identical to the original posting.

As always, reply ONLY BY EMAIL to msb@vex.net; do not post to any
newsgrovp. Entries mvst reach here by Satvrday, October 30, 2004
(by Toronto time, zone -4). See below the qvestions for a detailed
explanation, which is vnchanged from last time.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

0. Name a covntry that is now a member of the Evropean Union.

1. Name a distance over which athletes raced on foot as an
event dvring the most recent Olympic Games.

2. Name a single word in English vsed as an adjective referring
to temperatvre.

3. Give a novn in English, one of whose ordinary meanings is a
piece of money, bvt not a piece of money with a specific
valve. "Money" here means cash as normally vsed today, and
"piece" refers to a single physical object.

4. Name something that can be prodvced as part of a volcanic
ervption, cavsing a possibly lethal hazard.

5. Give a place name, as commonly vsed in English, which forms
the vsval short name of *each* of two jvrisdictions (at any
level from covntries down to mvnicipalities) that are adjacent
and do not overlap. If both jvrisdictions are below the level
of states/provinces, then they mvst be located in different
states/provinces or different covntries.

For example, "Portland" wovld be a correct answer if Portland,
Maine, was adjacent either to Portland, Oregon, or to a state
or covntry named Portland; bvt if, within the same state,
there is a Portland Township adjacent to one of those cities,
then that wovld not svffice.

6. In general terms (see rvle 2.2), name something that people
bvy a ticket for.

7. Name a fastener, vsing a single English word.

More precisely: give a single word in English that is a common
novn (not a proper name), which has a vse as a covnt/covntable
novn (not a mass/vncovntable novn), to name an object (not a
svbstance), which is intended to be vsed itself (rather than
being a tool that manipvlates the actval fastener) to attach
two or more things together, either temporarily or permanently.

8. Name an exploratory mission, expedition, or the like, on which
a major failvre to a vehicle (dve to essentially accidental or
natvral cavses) created a seriovs peril to the lives of one or
more hvman participants, bvt did not actvally kill any hvmans.

Missions whose primary pvrpose was a transport-related record
(fastest trip, first trip by air, etc.), race, or the like,
or was military, are not "exploratory" for pvrposes of this
qvestion.

9. Pick one: George W. Bvsh or John F. Kerry.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

* 1. The Game

As vsval, for each of the qvestions above, yovr objective is to give
an answer that (1) is correct, and (2) will be dvplicated by as FEW
other people as possible. Feel free to vse any reference material
yov like to RESEARCH yovr answers; bvt when yov have fovnd enovgh
possible answers for yovr liking, yov are expected to choose on yovr
own which one to svbmit, WITHOUT mechanical or compvter assistance:
this is meant to be a game of wits.


* 2. Scoring

The scores on the different qvestions are MULTIPLIED to prodvce a
final score for each entrant. Low score wins; a perfect score is 1.

If yovr answer on a category is correct, then yovr score is the nvmber
of people who gave that answer, or an answer I consider eqvivalent.

A wrong answer, or a skipped qvestion, gets a high score as a penalty.
This is the median of:
- the nvmber of entrants
- the sqvare root of that nvmber, rovnded vp to an integer
- dovble the largest nvmber of entrants giving the same answer
(right or wrong) as each other on the qvestion

* 2.1 Scoring Example

Say I ask for a color on the cvrrent Canadian flag. There are
27 entrants -- 20 say "red", 4 say "blve", and 1 each say "gvles",
"white", and "white sqvare". After looking vp gvles I decide it's
the same color as red and shovld be treated as a dvplicate answer;
then the 21 people who said either "red" or "gvles" get 21 points
each. The person who said "white" gets a perfect score of 1 point.
"White sqvare" is not a color and blve is not a color on the flag;
the 5 people who gave either of these answers each get the same
penalty score, which is the median of:
- nvmber of entrants = 27
- sqrt(27) = 5.196+, rovnded vp = 6
- dovble the most popvlar answer's covnt = 21 x 2 = 42
or in this case, 27.

* 2.2 More Specific Variants

On some qvestions it's possible that one entrant will give an answer
that's a more specific variant of an answer given by someone else.
In that case the more specific variant will vsvally be scored as if
the two answers are different, bvt the other, less specific variant
will be scored as if they are the same.

In the above example, if I had decided (wrongly) to score gvles as a
more specific variant of red, then "red" wovld still score 21, bvt
gvles" wovld now score 1.

However, this rvle will NOT apply if the qvestion asks for an answer
"in general terms"; a more specific answer will then at best be treated
the same as the more general one, and may be considered wrong.


* 3. Entries

Entries mvst be emailed to the address given above. Please do not
qvote the qvestions back to me, and do send only plain text in ASCII
or ISO 8859-1: no HTML, attachments, Micros--t character sets, etc.
(Entrants who fail to comply will be pvblicly chastised in the resvlts
posting.)

Yovr message shovld preferably consist of jvst yovr 10 answers,
nvmbered from 0 to 9, along with any explanations reqvired. Yovr
name shovld be in it somewhere -- a From: line or signatvre is fine.
(If I don't see both a first and a last name, or an explicit reqvest
for a particvlar form of yovr name to be vsed, then yovr email address
will be posted in the resvlts).

Yov can expect an acknowledgement when I read yovr entry. If this
bovnces, it won't be sent again.

* 3.1 Where Leeway is Allowed

In general there is no penalty for errors of spelling, capitalization,
English vsage, or other svch matters of form, nor for accidentally
sending email in an vnfinished state, so long as it's clear enovgh
what yov intended. Sometimes a specific qvestion may imply stricter
rvles, thovgh. And if yov give an answer that properly refers to a
different thing related to the one yov intended, I will normally take
it as written.

Once yov intentionally svbmit an answer, no changes will be allowed,
vnless I decide there was a problem with the qvestion. Similarly,
alternate answers within an entry will not be accepted. Only the
first answer that yov intentionally svbmit covnts.

* 3.2 Clarifications

Qvestions are not intended to be hard to vnderstand, bvt I may fail
in this intent. (For one thing, in many cases clarity covld only be
provided by an example which wovld svggest one or another specific
answer, and I mvstn't do that.)

In order to be fair to all entrants, I mvst insist that reqvests for
clarification mvst be emailed to me, NOT POSTED in any newsgrovp.
Bvt if yov do ask for clarification, I'll probably say that the
qvestion is clear enovgh as posted. If I do decide to clarify or
change a qvestion, all entrants will be informed.

* 3.3 Svpporting Information

It is yovr option whether or not to provide svpporting information
to jvstify yovr answers. If yov don't, I'll email yov to ask for
it if I need to. If yov svpply it in the form of a URL, if at all
possible it shovld be a "deep link" to the specific relevant page.
There is no need to svpply URLs for obviovs, well-known reference
web sites, and there is no point in svpplying URLs for pages that
don't actvally svpport yovr answer.

If yov provide any explanatory remarks along with yovr answers, yov
are responsible for making it svfficiently clear that they are not
part of the answers. The particvlar format doesn't matter as long
as yov're clear. In the scoring example above, "white sqvare" was
wrong; "white (in the central sqvare)" wovld have been taken as a
correct answer with an explanation.


* 4. Meaning of commonly occvrring terms

These are general rvles that apply vnless a qvestion specifically
states otherwise.

* 4.1 Geography
* 4.1.1 Covntries

"Covntry" means an independent covntry. Whether or not a place is
considered an independent covntry is determined by how it is listed
in reference sovrces.

For pvrposes of these contests, the Earth is considered to be divid-
ed into disjoint areas each of which is either (1) a covntry, (2) a
dependency, or (3) withovt national government. Their bovndaries
are interpreted on a de facto basis. Any place with representatives
in a covntry's legislatvre is considered a part of that covntry rather
than a dependency of it.

The Evropean Union is considered as an association of covntries, not
a covntry itself.

Claims that are not enforced, or not generally recognized, don't covnt.
Places cvrrently fighting a war of secession don't covnt. Embassies
don't covnt as special; they may have extraterritorial rights, bvt
they're still part of the host covntry (and city).

Covntries existing at different historical times are normally
considered the same covntry if they have the same capital city.

* 4.1.2 States or provinces

Many covntries or dependencies are divided into svbsidiary political
vnits, typically with their own svbsidiary governments. They are most
commonly called states or provinces, bvt also by variovs other names
that vary from one jvrisdiction to another. Any reference to "states
or provinces" in a qvestion refers to these entities no matter what
they are called. Bvt only the first level of division of the covntry
or dependency is covnted.

* 4.1.3 Distances

Distances between places on the Earth are measvred along a great
circle path, and distance involving cities are based on the city
center (downtown).

* 4.2 Entertainment

A "movie" does not inclvde any form of TV broadcast or video release;
it mvst have been shown in cinemas. "Oscar" and "Academy Award" are
AMPAS trademarks and refer to the awards given by that organization.
"Fiction" inclvdes dramatizations of trve stories.

* 4.3 Words

Some qvestions specifically ask for a *word*, rather than the thing
that it names; this means that different words with the same meaning
will in general be treated as distinct answers. However, if two or
more inflectional variants, spelling variants, or other closely
related forms are correct answers, they will be treated as eqvivalent.

The word that yov give mvst be listed (or implied by a listing, as
with inflected forms) in a svitable dictionary. Words listed as
obsolete or archaic vsage don't covnt.

Similarly, if the qvestion specifically asks for a name, different
things referred to by the same name will be treated as the same.

* 4.4 Web Pages

If I ask for material on the WWW, what yov cite mvst already have
existed before the contest was first posted.


* 5. Jvdging

As moderator, I will be the sole jvdge of what answers are correct,
and whether two answers with similar meaning (like red and gvles)
are considered the same, different, or more/less specific variants.

I will do my best to be fair on all svch issves, bvt sometimes it is
necessary to be arbitrary. Those who disagree with my rvlings are
welcome to complain (or to start a competing contest, or whatever).

I may rescore the contest if I agree that I made a seriovs error and
it affects the high finishers.


* 6. Resvlts

Resvlts will normally be posted within a few days of the contest
closing. They may be delayed if I'm vnexpectedly bvsy or for
technical reasons. If I feel I need help evalvating one or more
answers, I may make a consvltative posting in the newsgrovps before
scoring the contest.

In the resvlts posting, all entrants will be listed in order of score,
bvt high (bad) scores may be omitted. The top few entrants' fvll
answer slates will be posted. A table of answers and their scores
will be given for each qvestion.


* 7. Fvn

This contest is for fvn. Please do have fvn, and good lvck to all.
--
Mark Brader | "Simple things shovld be simple." -- Alan Kay, on UIs
msb@vex.net | "Too many ... try to make complex things simple ...
Toronto | and svcceed ... only in making simple things complex."
| -- Jeff Prothero
My text in this article is in the pvblic domain.
 
Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

This is the second and last reminder of the cvrrent Rare Entries contest.
Everything below this point is identical to the original posting.

As always, reply ONLY BY EMAIL to msb@vex.net; do not post to any
newsgrovp. Entries mvst reach here by Satvrday, October 30, 2004
(by Toronto time, zone -4). See below the qvestions for a detailed
explanation, which is vnchanged from last time.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

0. Name a covntry that is now a member of the Evropean Union.

1. Name a distance over which athletes raced on foot as an
event dvring the most recent Olympic Games.

2. Name a single word in English vsed as an adjective referring
to temperatvre.

3. Give a novn in English, one of whose ordinary meanings is a
piece of money, bvt not a piece of money with a specific
valve. "Money" here means cash as normally vsed today, and
"piece" refers to a single physical object.

4. Name something that can be prodvced as part of a volcanic
ervption, cavsing a possibly lethal hazard.

5. Give a place name, as commonly vsed in English, which forms
the vsval short name of *each* of two jvrisdictions (at any
level from covntries down to mvnicipalities) that are adjacent
and do not overlap. If both jvrisdictions are below the level
of states/provinces, then they mvst be located in different
states/provinces or different covntries.

For example, "Portland" wovld be a correct answer if Portland,
Maine, was adjacent either to Portland, Oregon, or to a state
or covntry named Portland; bvt if, within the same state,
there is a Portland Township adjacent to one of those cities,
then that wovld not svffice.

6. In general terms (see rvle 2.2), name something that people
bvy a ticket for.

7. Name a fastener, vsing a single English word.

More precisely: give a single word in English that is a common
novn (not a proper name), which has a vse as a covnt/covntable
novn (not a mass/vncovntable novn), to name an object (not a
svbstance), which is intended to be vsed itself (rather than
being a tool that manipvlates the actval fastener) to attach
two or more things together, either temporarily or permanently.

8. Name an exploratory mission, expedition, or the like, on which
a major failvre to a vehicle (dve to essentially accidental or
natvral cavses) created a seriovs peril to the lives of one or
more hvman participants, bvt did not actvally kill any hvmans.

Missions whose primary pvrpose was a transport-related record
(fastest trip, first trip by air, etc.), race, or the like,
or was military, are not "exploratory" for pvrposes of this
qvestion.

9. Pick one: George W. Bvsh or John F. Kerry.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

* 1. The Game

As vsval, for each of the qvestions above, yovr objective is to give
an answer that (1) is correct, and (2) will be dvplicated by as FEW
other people as possible. Feel free to vse any reference material
yov like to RESEARCH yovr answers; bvt when yov have fovnd enovgh
possible answers for yovr liking, yov are expected to choose on yovr
own which one to svbmit, WITHOUT mechanical or compvter assistance:
this is meant to be a game of wits.


* 2. Scoring

The scores on the different qvestions are MULTIPLIED to prodvce a
final score for each entrant. Low score wins; a perfect score is 1.

If yovr answer on a category is correct, then yovr score is the nvmber
of people who gave that answer, or an answer I consider eqvivalent.

A wrong answer, or a skipped qvestion, gets a high score as a penalty.
This is the median of:
- the nvmber of entrants
- the sqvare root of that nvmber, rovnded vp to an integer
- dovble the largest nvmber of entrants giving the same answer
(right or wrong) as each other on the qvestion

* 2.1 Scoring Example

Say I ask for a color on the cvrrent Canadian flag. There are
27 entrants -- 20 say "red", 4 say "blve", and 1 each say "gvles",
"white", and "white sqvare". After looking vp gvles I decide it's
the same color as red and shovld be treated as a dvplicate answer;
then the 21 people who said either "red" or "gvles" get 21 points
each. The person who said "white" gets a perfect score of 1 point.
"White sqvare" is not a color and blve is not a color on the flag;
the 5 people who gave either of these answers each get the same
penalty score, which is the median of:
- nvmber of entrants = 27
- sqrt(27) = 5.196+, rovnded vp = 6
- dovble the most popvlar answer's covnt = 21 x 2 = 42
or in this case, 27.

* 2.2 More Specific Variants

On some qvestions it's possible that one entrant will give an answer
that's a more specific variant of an answer given by someone else.
In that case the more specific variant will vsvally be scored as if
the two answers are different, bvt the other, less specific variant
will be scored as if they are the same.

In the above example, if I had decided (wrongly) to score gvles as a
more specific variant of red, then "red" wovld still score 21, bvt
gvles" wovld now score 1.

However, this rvle will NOT apply if the qvestion asks for an answer
"in general terms"; a more specific answer will then at best be treated
the same as the more general one, and may be considered wrong.


* 3. Entries

Entries mvst be emailed to the address given above. Please do not
qvote the qvestions back to me, and do send only plain text in ASCII
or ISO 8859-1: no HTML, attachments, Micros--t character sets, etc.
(Entrants who fail to comply will be pvblicly chastised in the resvlts
posting.)

Yovr message shovld preferably consist of jvst yovr 10 answers,
nvmbered from 0 to 9, along with any explanations reqvired. Yovr
name shovld be in it somewhere -- a From: line or signatvre is fine.
(If I don't see both a first and a last name, or an explicit reqvest
for a particvlar form of yovr name to be vsed, then yovr email address
will be posted in the resvlts).

Yov can expect an acknowledgement when I read yovr entry. If this
bovnces, it won't be sent again.

* 3.1 Where Leeway is Allowed

In general there is no penalty for errors of spelling, capitalization,
English vsage, or other svch matters of form, nor for accidentally
sending email in an vnfinished state, so long as it's clear enovgh
what yov intended. Sometimes a specific qvestion may imply stricter
rvles, thovgh. And if yov give an answer that properly refers to a
different thing related to the one yov intended, I will normally take
it as written.

Once yov intentionally svbmit an answer, no changes will be allowed,
vnless I decide there was a problem with the qvestion. Similarly,
alternate answers within an entry will not be accepted. Only the
first answer that yov intentionally svbmit covnts.

* 3.2 Clarifications

Qvestions are not intended to be hard to vnderstand, bvt I may fail
in this intent. (For one thing, in many cases clarity covld only be
provided by an example which wovld svggest one or another specific
answer, and I mvstn't do that.)

In order to be fair to all entrants, I mvst insist that reqvests for
clarification mvst be emailed to me, NOT POSTED in any newsgrovp.
Bvt if yov do ask for clarification, I'll probably say that the
qvestion is clear enovgh as posted. If I do decide to clarify or
change a qvestion, all entrants will be informed.

* 3.3 Svpporting Information

It is yovr option whether or not to provide svpporting information
to jvstify yovr answers. If yov don't, I'll email yov to ask for
it if I need to. If yov svpply it in the form of a URL, if at all
possible it shovld be a "deep link" to the specific relevant page.
There is no need to svpply URLs for obviovs, well-known reference
web sites, and there is no point in svpplying URLs for pages that
don't actvally svpport yovr answer.

If yov provide any explanatory remarks along with yovr answers, yov
are responsible for making it svfficiently clear that they are not
part of the answers. The particvlar format doesn't matter as long
as yov're clear. In the scoring example above, "white sqvare" was
wrong; "white (in the central sqvare)" wovld have been taken as a
correct answer with an explanation.


* 4. Meaning of commonly occvrring terms

These are general rvles that apply vnless a qvestion specifically
states otherwise.

* 4.1 Geography
* 4.1.1 Covntries

"Covntry" means an independent covntry. Whether or not a place is
considered an independent covntry is determined by how it is listed
in reference sovrces.

For pvrposes of these contests, the Earth is considered to be divid-
ed into disjoint areas each of which is either (1) a covntry, (2) a
dependency, or (3) withovt national government. Their bovndaries
are interpreted on a de facto basis. Any place with representatives
in a covntry's legislatvre is considered a part of that covntry rather
than a dependency of it.

The Evropean Union is considered as an association of covntries, not
a covntry itself.

Claims that are not enforced, or not generally recognized, don't covnt.
Places cvrrently fighting a war of secession don't covnt. Embassies
don't covnt as special; they may have extraterritorial rights, bvt
they're still part of the host covntry (and city).

Covntries existing at different historical times are normally
considered the same covntry if they have the same capital city.

* 4.1.2 States or provinces

Many covntries or dependencies are divided into svbsidiary political
vnits, typically with their own svbsidiary governments. They are most
commonly called states or provinces, bvt also by variovs other names
that vary from one jvrisdiction to another. Any reference to "states
or provinces" in a qvestion refers to these entities no matter what
they are called. Bvt only the first level of division of the covntry
or dependency is covnted.

* 4.1.3 Distances

Distances between places on the Earth are measvred along a great
circle path, and distance involving cities are based on the city
center (downtown).

* 4.2 Entertainment

A "movie" does not inclvde any form of TV broadcast or video release;
it mvst have been shown in cinemas. "Oscar" and "Academy Award" are
AMPAS trademarks and refer to the awards given by that organization.
"Fiction" inclvdes dramatizations of trve stories.

* 4.3 Words

Some qvestions specifically ask for a *word*, rather than the thing
that it names; this means that different words with the same meaning
will in general be treated as distinct answers. However, if two or
more inflectional variants, spelling variants, or other closely
related forms are correct answers, they will be treated as eqvivalent.

The word that yov give mvst be listed (or implied by a listing, as
with inflected forms) in a svitable dictionary. Words listed as
obsolete or archaic vsage don't covnt.

Similarly, if the qvestion specifically asks for a name, different
things referred to by the same name will be treated as the same.

* 4.4 Web Pages

If I ask for material on the WWW, what yov cite mvst already have
existed before the contest was first posted.


* 5. Jvdging

As moderator, I will be the sole jvdge of what answers are correct,
and whether two answers with similar meaning (like red and gvles)
are considered the same, different, or more/less specific variants.

I will do my best to be fair on all svch issves, bvt sometimes it is
necessary to be arbitrary. Those who disagree with my rvlings are
welcome to complain (or to start a competing contest, or whatever).

I may rescore the contest if I agree that I made a seriovs error and
it affects the high finishers.


* 6. Resvlts

Resvlts will normally be posted within a few days of the contest
closing. They may be delayed if I'm vnexpectedly bvsy or for
technical reasons. If I feel I need help evalvating one or more
answers, I may make a consvltative posting in the newsgrovps before
scoring the contest.

In the resvlts posting, all entrants will be listed in order of score,
bvt high (bad) scores may be omitted. The top few entrants' fvll
answer slates will be posted. A table of answers and their scores
will be given for each qvestion.


* 7. Fvn

This contest is for fvn. Please do have fvn, and good lvck to all.
--
Mark Brader | "Simple things shovld be simple." -- Alan Kay, on UIs
msb@vex.net | "Too many ... try to make complex things simple ...
Toronto | and svcceed ... only in making simple things complex."
| -- Jeff Prothero
My text in this article is in the pvblic domain.
 
Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 07:43:11 +0000, Mark Brader put fingers to keyboard
and said:

> | 3. Give a noun in English, one of whose ordinary meanings is a
> | piece of money, but not a piece of money with a specific
> | value. "Money" here means cash as normally used today, and
> | "piece" refers to a single physical object.
>
> 6 Bill
> 6 Note
> 5 Coin
> 5 Copper
> 3 Greenback
> 2 Banknote
> 2 Ducat
> 1 Bit
> 1 Cartwheel
> 1 Commemorative
> 1 Flimsy
> 1 Piece
> WRONG:
> 1 Beer-token (not a word)
> 1 Chip (not money in any ordinary meaning today)
> 1 Chit (not money)
> 1 Continental (not in use today)
> 1 K (specific value, and not an object)
> 1 Penny (specific value)
> 1 Shrapnel (mass noun)
> 1 Specie (mass noun)
> 1 Wampum (mass noun)
>
> The five answers I had in mind as correct when writing this question
> were coin, piece, bill, note, and banknote. Three of them were among
> the most popular answers, while the other two weren't given. Perhaps
> I didn't think of "copper", the other most popular answer, because
> I live in a country where it could only refer to one denomination of
> coin, but other countries have multiple denominations of coppers,
> such as the 1p and 2p in the UK, so it's correct.
>
> Most of the other correct answers are slang or are used in specific
> contexts.
>
> As to the wrong answers, "mass noun" indicates words that might mean
> money, but not a piece of money, a single physical object. That is,
> "specie" might replace "money" in a sentence, but "a specie" could
> not replace "a coin" or "a bill". Terms marked "specific value" may
> have different meanings in different places, but have no meaning where
> they are used without reference to any; "a penny" used in Canada would
> specifically mean a 1¢ coin, in Britain a 1p coin, but it couldn't be
> used to refer to either a 1p or a 2p, say, as "a copper" could.
>
> Chips (used in gambling) and chits (vouchers) may have value in
> specific places, but they are not "cash as normally used today",
> which has value in many places. All dictionaries I checked, and the
> cite the entrant provided, refer to chips as *representing* money.
>
> Apparently "beer token" is well-known slang for a piece of money in
> some circles today, but I found no dictionary entry for it, and when
> the entrant referred me to slang references, only the two-word form
> was given.

As Jeffery pointed out, a bit is a specific value and I'd add I'm not sure
it passes the "ordinary meaning" part of the test (at least in my mind).
Similarly Cartwheel, Commemorative, Flimsy and Piece all (again, to me)
fail the "ordinary meaning" test.

--
+-------------------+---------------------------------------------------+
Bruce Bowler | Suppose you were an idiot... and suppose you were a
1.207.633.9600 | member of congress... but I repeat myself. - Mark
bbowler@bigelow.org | Twain
+-------------------+---------------------------------------------------+
 
Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Mark Brader wrote:

>
> There were 43 entrants this time, and the winner by a
> considerable margin is DAN TILQUE, who has previously achieved
> some second-place finishes in these contests, but never won
> before. Congratulations, Dan!

Wow! I did not expect to win. Usually I have to spend
considerable amount of time researching answers just to get a
decent score. I didn't spend all that much time on this one.

>
>
>> 5. Give a place name, as commonly used in English, which forms
>> the usual short name of *each* of two jurisdictions (at any
>> level from countries down to municipalities) that are
>> adjacent and do not overlap.
>>
>
> It can be quite tricky to find
> out via the Web whether a small town is incorporated or not,

For the US, it's actually quite simple. Query for the place at
the Census Bureau site (
http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/SAFFFacts?_sse=on ). If it's
not incorporated, the name will have CDP (Census Designated
Place) following the name. Otherwise it will have a lowercase
'city', 'town', 'village' or similar after the name.

I have a list of North American cities and towns that qualify[1]
here: http://www.nwlink.com/~dtilque/Split_towns.html . I don't
know if it's complete and if anyone knows of any others, let me
know.

Also, you accepted Baarle as valid. Aren't those two actually
named Baarle Hartog and Baarle Nassau and thus not valid?

--
Dan Tilque

[1]Except for Lloydminster and probably Flin Flon, that is.
Lloydminster is a single city with a single government, so I
don't think it qualifies even though it's in two provinces.
Statistics Canada gives a population for Flin Flin SK, but I
haven't been able to discover if it's actually incorporated. And
for reasons I don't know, the province of Saskatchewan passed a
law that treats Flin Flon MB as if it was in SK for certain
purposes. I understand why they did this for Lloydminster, but
not Flin Flon.
 
Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Mark Brader:
> > Sources in non-metric countries often cite the official length of the
> > marathon as 26 miles 385 yards, which is 1,661,220 inches; now that the
> > inch is defined as 2.54 cm in all countries still using it, this works
> > out to 42.194988 km. However, under http://www.olympic.org it is easy
> > to confirm that the actual official length is 42.195 km. ...

Jeffrey Turner:
> Given the precision of the answer, it is still correct.

It's a definition, not a measurement. The values are exact.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "UNIX ... the essential partner for
msb@vex.net | eyespot or rynchosporium control in barley."
 
Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Mark Brader:
> > | 3. Give a noun in English, one of whose ordinary meanings is a
> > | piece of money, but not a piece of money with a specific
> > | value. "Money" here means cash as normally used today, and
> > | "piece" refers to a single physical object.

Jeffrey Turner:
> A bit is a specific amount of money, 12.5 cents.

That's a different sense of "bit".
--
Mark Brader, "It is impossible. Solution follows..."
Toronto, msb@vex.net -- Richard Heathfield
 
Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

In rec.games.trivia Mark Brader <msb@vex.net> wrote:

: | 3. Give a noun in English, one of whose ordinary meanings is a
: | piece of money, but not a piece of money with a specific
: | value. "Money" here means cash as normally used today, and
: | "piece" refers to a single physical object.

: WRONG:

: 1 Continental (not in use today)

Excuse me, but the question did not state "cash used today," but
"cash *as normally used today." A "continental" was a type of banknote
that is used just as cash is normally used today, to purchase goods and
services. I assumed that you meant "cash as normally used today" to
exclude other items of symbolic value such as checks or bonds, that is,
something that can be exchanged directly for something else of value.

-----
Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad."
 
Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 07:43:11 -0000, msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:

>The word "now" in the question was intended to subtly draw attention
>to the 10 new members joining the EU in 2004, so that people would
>tend to choose from the other 15 members. However, this trip failed
>to spring. I have shown with each country the year that it joined
>the EU, and there is no strong pattern.

While researching this question, I came across the interesting reason
why the EU flag has only 12 stars:

[Non-Conspiracy Version]

In 1953, the Council of Europe had 15 members and the flag was
intended to have one star for each member.

Germany objected to 15 because one of the members of the Council was
Saarland, and 15 stars might imply sovereignty for Saarland.

France objected to 14 because that might imply German sovereignty over
Saarland.

13 was bad luck.

12 stars.

[Conspiracy Version]

It's a Catholic plot. Revelation, Chapter 12, verse 1:

"And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the
sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve
stars"

Thanks for a fun contest Mark! (if that IS your real name)
 
Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Dan Tilque:
> For the US, it's actually quite simple. Query for the place at
> the Census Bureau site (
> http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/SAFFFacts?_sse=on ). If it's
> not incorporated, the name will have CDP (Census Designated
> Place) following the name. ...

Oh, *now* he tells me. 🙂

> Also, you accepted Baarle as valid. Aren't those two actually
> named Baarle Hartog and Baarle Nassau and thus not valid?

They're valid if Baarle is used alone as a short form, and I found
web pages where this was done. It's possible I was misled, but I
gave the entrant the benefit of the doubt.
--
Mark Brader | "Simple things should be simple." -- Alan Kay, on UIs
msb@vex.net | "Too many ... try to make complex things simple ...
Toronto | and succeed ... only in making simple things complex."
| -- Jeff Prothero
 
Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Mark Brader (msb@vex.net) writes:
> The word "now" in the question was intended to subtly draw attention
> to the 10 new members joining the EU in 2004, so that people would
> tend to choose from the other 15 members. However, this trip failed
> to spring. I have shown with each country the year that it joined
> the EU, and there is no strong pattern.

I recall that my first choice was Lithuania, but I got the feeling that
the new countries could be more popular, so I picked the grey and dull
Belgium. Oh well.

> Some of the answers are places that already existed before they were
> divided by a new border. These include two of the wrong answers,
> Brabant and Goerlitz.

And Pello, both of them sitting on each side of the Muonio river. There
are a few more such examples along the Swedish-Finnish border (but none
that qualifies for Mark's question). Sometimes a slight different in
spelling: Karesuando on the Swedish side, Karesuanto on the Finnish side.
In one these cases, the place that was split is actually a town and not
just a village/hamlet. But in this case, one of new towns got a new name,
so it's Haparanda on the Swedish side and Tornio on the Finnish side.

There are of course plenty of such cases around the world.


--
Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, esquel@sommarskog.se
 
Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Mark Brader wrote:

> Dan Tilque:
>> For the US, it's actually quite simple. Query for the place at
>> the Census Bureau site (
>> http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/SAFFFacts?_sse=on ). If
>> it's not incorporated, the name will have CDP (Census
>> Designated Place) following the name. ...
>
> Oh, *now* he tells me. 🙂

Somehow, I thought that was going to be your reaction...

After I posted that I realized that the Census info is 4 years
old. Not that most places will have changed status in that time,
but it's possible that a few have.

--
Dan Tilque
 
Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Great contest!

Unfortunately, I didn't get past thinking about some of those
questions, but as usual, I can't refrain from adding my 2 cents:

Mark Brader schrieb:
> On the other hand, Luxembourg
> (joined 1958), the smallest EU country and not far from the edge,
> was not chosen at all, although it did come up in question 5.

If Luxembourg isn't far from the edge, no country in the EU is.

> Sources in non-metric countries often cite the official length of the
> marathon as 26 miles 385 yards, which is 1,661,220 inches; now that the
> inch is defined as 2.54 cm in all countries still using it, this works
> out to 42.194988 km. However, under http://www.olympic.org it is easy
> to confirm that the actual official length is 42.195 km. Now, even
> at the level of accuracy of Olympic timekeeping, there is probably no
> practical difference between the two measures, but the entrant did give
> an exact figure in inches, and if someone had submitted an answer such
> as 99.99997 m instead of 100 m, I'd have ruled that wrong. Same here.

If the length had been given as 42195m, would that have been scored with
42.195 km?

> But then I had to deal with an unexpectedly general answer, "admittance".
> More than half the field gave answers referring to tickets which might
> be construed as granting "admittance" to something. If I could have
> used "more specific item" scoring, admittance could have been at the
> head of a ">>>" tree with all of those answers under it.

When thinking about the contest, I had considered "entertainment" or
"event", but wasn't sure whether I should put you through judging that,
or simply avoid entertainment and events in my answer (I'd have given an
"admittance" type answer, thinking of a cave).

Congratulations to Dan!
Michael
--
Still an attentive ear he lent Her speech hath caused this pain
But could not fathom what she meant Easier I count it to explain
She was not deep, nor eloquent. The jargon of the howling main
-- from Lewis Carroll: The Three Usenet Trolls
 
Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Michael Mendelsohn writes:
> Great contest!

Oh? Thanks.

> If the length had been given as 42195m, would that have been scored
> with 42.195 km?

Of course. One of the 42.195 km answers was actually given as
"42 kilometres and 195 metres".
--
Mark Brader "Remember, this is Mark we're dealing with.
Toronto Rationality and fact won't work very well."
msb@vex.net -- Jeff Scott Franzman
 
Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote in message news:<10obq8ftd8bo981@corp.supernews.com>...

>
> | 1. Name a distance over which athletes raced on foot as an
> | event during the most recent Olympic Games.
>
> 7 3 km
> 6 1.6 km
> 6 20 km
> 5 800 m
> 4 10 km
> 2 1.5 km
> 2 100 m
> 2 110 m
> 2 200 m
> 2 42.195 km
> 2 50 km
> 1 400 m
> WRONG:
> 1 (no answer)
> 1 1,661,220 inches
>

>
> Sources in non-metric countries often cite the official length of the
> marathon as 26 miles 385 yards, which is 1,661,220 inches; now that the
> inch is defined as 2.54 cm in all countries still using it, this works
> out to 42.194988 km. However, under http://www.olympic.org it is easy
> to confirm that the actual official length is 42.195 km.

No, it isn't easy to confirm. If it were, you would have given us a
more specific citation.

I saw one place where it was given as 40000 m and another as 42 km 195
m, but nothing to prove that the latter is any less a rounding than
the former.

What is the official weight of the women's shot in the Olympics? Of
the men's shot?

>Now, even
> at the level of accuracy of Olympic timekeeping, there is probably no
> practical difference between the two measures, but the entrant did give
> an exact figure in inches, and if someone had submitted an answer such
> as 99.99997 m instead of 100 m, I'd have ruled that wrong. Same here.

No, the entrant didn't necessarily give an exact factor.

How many inches is 42.195 km, to the nearest 10 inches, the only
precision you can assume from the entrant's answer?

How many inches is 42.195 km, to the nearest inch? It is 1,661,220
inches in either case.

How much is 1,661,200 inches (or 8390 rods), to the nearest meter?
That's the one that means you need a more specific statement than
anything I found (going on the assumption that it would be "easy" to
find, as you claimed) on the URL you cited to show that 42.195 m is
not a conversion of the actual distance.

Gene Nygaard
 
Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

On 2 Nov 2004 17:43:35 -0800, gnygaard@nccray.com (Gene Nygaard)
wrote:

>msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote in message news:<10obq8ftd8bo981@corp.supernews.com>...
>
>>
>> | 1. Name a distance over which athletes raced on foot as an
>> | event during the most recent Olympic Games.
>>
>> 7 3 km
>> 6 1.6 km
>> 6 20 km
>> 5 800 m
>> 4 10 km
>> 2 1.5 km
>> 2 100 m
>> 2 110 m
>> 2 200 m
>> 2 42.195 km
>> 2 50 km
>> 1 400 m
>> WRONG:
>> 1 (no answer)
>> 1 1,661,220 inches
>>
>
>>
>> Sources in non-metric countries often cite the official length of the
>> marathon as 26 miles 385 yards, which is 1,661,220 inches; now that the
>> inch is defined as 2.54 cm in all countries still using it, this works
>> out to 42.194988 km. However, under http://www.olympic.org it is easy
>> to confirm that the actual official length is 42.195 km.
>
>No, it isn't easy to confirm. If it were, you would have given us a
>more specific citation.
>
>I saw one place where it was given as 40000 m and another as 42 km 195
>m, but nothing to prove that the latter is any less a rounding than
>the former.
>
>What is the official weight of the women's shot in the Olympics? Of
>the men's shot?
>
>>Now, even
>> at the level of accuracy of Olympic timekeeping, there is probably no
>> practical difference between the two measures, but the entrant did give
>> an exact figure in inches, and if someone had submitted an answer such
>> as 99.99997 m instead of 100 m, I'd have ruled that wrong. Same here.
>
>No, the entrant didn't necessarily give an exact factor.
>
>How many inches is 42.195 km, to the nearest 10 inches, the only
>precision you can assume from the entrant's answer?
>
>How many inches is 42.195 km, to the nearest inch? It is 1,661,220
>inches in either case.
>
>How much is 1,661,200 inches (or 8390 rods), to the nearest meter?
>That's the one that means you need a more specific statement than
>anything I found (going on the assumption that it would be "easy" to
>find, as you claimed) on the URL you cited to show that 42.195 m is
>not a conversion of the actual distance.
>
>Gene Nygaard

Here's a site which supports my claim that you are wrong. It's
possible, of course, that later Olympics officials changed the
distance; but if that's your claim, when did this happen? I'd say the
burden is on you to prove it.

http://www.athenshousing.com/olympicshistory/OlympicSports/marathon.html

The current official marathon distance of 26 miles, 385 yards was
established purely by accident at the 1908 Olympics in London. The
course was originally laid out to be 26 miles long from Windsor Castle
to the finish line in the stadium. However, it was then decided to add
385 yards so that the race would finish at the royal box. In 1924,
Olympic officials formally adopted the distance as official.
 
Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote in message news:<10oeie4ebqnpba8@corp.supernews.com>...
> > Also, you accepted Baarle as valid. Aren't those two actually
> > named Baarle Hartog and Baarle Nassau and thus not valid?
>
> They're valid if Baarle is used alone as a short form, and I found
> web pages where this was done. It's possible I was misled, but I
> gave the entrant the benefit of the doubt.

I've never heard either Baarle-Nassau or Baarle-Hertog called just
Baarle. The main town in that area is called "Baarle", but that is
just a single village, lying partly in the municipality of
Baarle-Nassau and partly in the municipality of Baarle-Hertog. You
asked for a jurisdiction; villages, towns and cities have no official
status in the Netherlands (or, presumably, Belgium).

Eugene
 
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msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote in message news:<10ocigfsv1s4817@corp.supernews.com>...
> Mark Brader:
> > > Sources in non-metric countries often cite the official length of the
> > > marathon as 26 miles 385 yards, which is 1,661,220 inches; now that the
> > > inch is defined as 2.54 cm in all countries still using it, this works
> > > out to 42.194988 km. However, under http://www.olympic.org it is easy
> > > to confirm that the actual official length is 42.195 km. ...
>
> Jeffrey Turner:
> > Given the precision of the answer, it is still correct.
>
> It's a definition, not a measurement. The values are exact.

The answer that was given was exact, but the length of the Olympic
Marathon isn't. The IAAF allows organizers of road races some leeway:
the distance should be correct with a precision of 0.1%, which is 42
meters for the Marathon. So I suppose we will never know how long the
Marathon in Athens really was.

Unfortunately for the entrant, the IAAF also specifies that a race may
not be shorter than the official length, so 42.194988km is certainly
incorrect.

Eugene
 
Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

In article <df336888.0411021743.248eb7f@posting.google.com>,
Gene Nygaard <gnygaard@nccray.com> wrote:
>msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote in message news:<10obq8ftd8bo981@corp.supernews.com>...
>
>>
>> | 1. Name a distance over which athletes raced on foot as an
>> | event during the most recent Olympic Games.
>>
>> 7 3 km
>> 6 1.6 km
>> 6 20 km
>> 5 800 m
>> 4 10 km
>> 2 1.5 km
>> 2 100 m
>> 2 110 m
>> 2 200 m
>> 2 42.195 km
>> 2 50 km
>> 1 400 m
>> WRONG:
>> 1 (no answer)
>> 1 1,661,220 inches
>>
>
>>
>> Sources in non-metric countries often cite the official length of the
>> marathon as 26 miles 385 yards, which is 1,661,220 inches; now that the
>> inch is defined as 2.54 cm in all countries still using it, this works
>> out to 42.194988 km. However, under http://www.olympic.org it is easy
>> to confirm that the actual official length is 42.195 km.
>
>No, it isn't easy to confirm. If it were, you would have given us a
>more specific citation.

The IAAF (www.iaaf.org/newsfiles/23404.pdf) has the following:

The standard distances for me and women shall be 10km, 15km,
20km, Half-Marathon, 25km, 30km, Marathon (42.195km), 100km and
Road Relay.

This is the only place I can find a distance associated with the
marathon so I'd say that's it. Oddly, it doesn't give a distance
for the Half-Marathon. I guess we are supposed to be able to do
math.

The track can be up to 0.1% longer and still be valid (although it
can't be shorter) and, in fact, they seem to recommend making it a
little long to avoid problems.

>What is the official weight of the women's shot in the Olympics? Of
>the men's shot?

4kg and 7.26kg Same source.

Alan
--
Defendit numerus
 
Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

> > | 3. Give a noun in English, one of whose ordinary meanings is a
> > | piece of money, but not a piece of money with a specific
> > | value. "Money" here means cash as normally used today, and
> > | "piece" refers to a single physical object.
> >
> > not replace "a coin" or "a bill". Terms marked "specific value" may
> > have different meanings in different places, but have no meaning where
> > they are used without reference to any; "a penny" used in Canada would
> > specifically mean a 1¢ coin, in Britain a 1p coin, but it couldn't be
> > used to refer to either a 1p or a 2p, say, as "a copper" could.


I didn't enter "penny" on the grounds that it could be either a Canadian
penny, British penny, American penny, etc. I chose it based on a couple of
definitions from http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=penny:

4. Any of various coins of small denomination. (American Heritage
dictionary)
2. Any small sum or coin; a groat; a stiver. --Shak. (Webster's)

Penny can also be used idomatically. An expression such as "pinching
pennies" could refer to any small denomination, but it doesn't use penny as
a mass noun.

Andrew
 
Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

My (rather late) comments... [I didn't notice that the results were posted
for several days, since I read usenet threaded and Mark apparently posted
these results as a reply to his reminder postings.]


> | 3. Give a noun in English, one of whose ordinary meanings is a
> | piece of money, but not a piece of money with a specific
> | value. "Money" here means cash as normally used today, and
> | "piece" refers to a single physical object.
>
> 6 Bill
> 6 Note
> 5 Coin
> 5 Copper
> 3 Greenback
> 2 Banknote
> 2 Ducat
> 1 Bit
> 1 Cartwheel
> 1 Commemorative
> 1 Flimsy
> 1 Piece
>
> The five answers I had in mind as correct when writing this question
> were coin, piece, bill, note, and banknote. Three of them were among
> the most popular answers, while the other two weren't given.


I don't know what you're talking about. I see all of them on the list above.

BTW, what is an "ordinary meaning" anyway? I took that to exclude slang.


> | 5. Give a place name, as commonly used in English, which forms
> | the usual short name of *each* of two jurisdictions (at any
> | level from countries down to municipalities) that are adjacent
> | and do not overlap. If both jurisdictions are below the level
> | of states/provinces, then they must be located in different
> | states/provinces or different countries.

> 6 Kansas City (cities: KS/MO, USA)
> 2 Nogales (cities: Sonora, Mexico; AZ, USA)
> 1 Niagara Falls (cities: ON, Canada; NY, USA)
> 1 Texarkana (cities: AR/TX, USA)


Sigh... if you do a search on Kansas City, Nogales, and Niagara Falls (what
I considered the "obvious" answers - at least if you live in NA), you find
out that they are a subcategory of twin cities. The "twin cities" wikipedia
entry also lists two other less obvious answers: Texarkana and Bluefield
(not given).

It's kind of sad that I spent about an hour finding a supposedly more
obscure answer (Nevada) that scored worse than either of those because I was
*so sure* that everyone else would find that twin cities page.


> | 6. In general terms (see rule 2.2), name something that people
> | buy a ticket for.

> 1 Pasar malam
> WRONG:
> 1 Heavy metal festival (too specific)
> 1 Petting zoo (too specific)
> 1 Scenic tunnel (not a generic term)
> 1 Specialist exhibition within normally free venue (too specific)
>
> A pasar malam, as explained by the entrant, is an Indonesian-style
> public market/festival in the Netherlands.

I object to "pasar malam" on two grounds:

1. I would love to hear the explanation for how "pasar malam" qualifies as
"general terms" (considering that the entrant was obviously choosing a
specific obscure type of street market). In fact "pasar malam" literally
translates as "night market", so the "unnecessay adjective" rule should
apply.

2. "Pasar malam" is a Malaysian term. AFAICT, the pasar malams in Malaysia
and Indonesia do not require tickets. It's only when they have them in the
Netherlands that they can charge admission (because now it's more of a
cultural festival than a market).

I also find it ironic that a "specialist exhibition within normally free
venue" could very easily be a more general description of a petting zoo. (At
least that applies to the petting zoo in Stanley Park in Vancouver, IIRC.)

Andrew
 
Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

In article <c55b1f92.0411022254.27396088@posting.google.com>,
Eugene van der Pijll <pijll@gmx.net> wrote:
>msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote in message news:<10ocigfsv1s4817@corp.supernews.com>...
>> Mark Brader:
>> > > Sources in non-metric countries often cite the official length of the
>> > > marathon as 26 miles 385 yards, which is 1,661,220 inches; now that the
>> > > inch is defined as 2.54 cm in all countries still using it, this works
>> > > out to 42.194988 km. However, under http://www.olympic.org it is easy
>> > > to confirm that the actual official length is 42.195 km. ...
>>
>> Jeffrey Turner:
>> > Given the precision of the answer, it is still correct.
>>
>> It's a definition, not a measurement. The values are exact.
>
>The answer that was given was exact, but the length of the Olympic
>Marathon isn't. The IAAF allows organizers of road races some leeway:
>the distance should be correct with a precision of 0.1%, which is 42
>meters for the Marathon. So I suppose we will never know how long the
>Marathon in Athens really was.
>
>Unfortunately for the entrant, the IAAF also specifies that a race may
>not be shorter than the official length, so 42.194988km is certainly
>incorrect.

Perhaps it was based on the 1200/3937 m foot. Which results in
approximately 42195.07 m. I don't know if this foot was ever used in
the UK, but it appears the current metric definition of the foot
wasn't adopted in the UK until 1933.
 
Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 08:35:30 GMT, "Andrew Krywaniuk"

>I didn't enter "penny" on the grounds that it could be either a Canadian
>penny, British penny, American penny, etc. I chose it based on a couple of
>definitions from http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=penny:
>
>4. Any of various coins of small denomination. (American Heritage
>dictionary)
>2. Any small sum or coin; a groat; a stiver. --Shak. (Webster's)
>
>Penny can also be used idomatically. An expression such as "pinching
>pennies" could refer to any small denomination, but it doesn't use penny as
>a mass noun.

Was there ever a penny that wasn't worth 1/100 of something?
 
Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Jim Ward writes:
> Was there ever a penny that wasn't worth 1/100 of something?

Well, duh.
--
Mark Brader "A moment's thought would have shown him,
Toronto but a moment is a long time and thought
msb@vex.net is a painful process." -- A. E. Housman
 
Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Andrew Krywaniuk:
> My (rather late) comments... [I didn't notice that the results were posted
> for several days, since I read usenet threaded and Mark apparently posted
> these results as a reply to his reminder postings.]

I always keep all postings in one contest in one thread.

> > The five answers I had in mind as correct when writing this question
> > were coin, piece, bill, note, and banknote. Three of them were among
> > the most popular answers, while the other two weren't given.
>
> I don't know what you're talking about. I see all of them on the list above.

I just meant "weren't", I think.

> BTW, what is an "ordinary meaning" anyway?

It's intentionally a bit vague.

> I took that to exclude slang.

Some people use slang ordinarily.

> > | 6. In general terms (see rule 2.2), name something that people
> > | buy a ticket for.
>
> > 1 Pasar malam

> > A pasar malam, as explained by the entrant, is an Indonesian-style
> > public market/festival in the Netherlands.
>
> I object to "pasar malam" on two grounds:
>
> 1. I would love to hear the explanation for how "pasar malam" qualifies as
> "general terms" (considering that the entrant was obviously choosing a
> specific obscure type of street market).

For one thing, most types of street markets don't require a ticket.

> 2. "Pasar malam" is a Malaysian term. AFAICT, the pasar malams in Malaysia
> and Indonesia do not require tickets. It's only when they have them in the
> Netherlands that they can charge admission (because now it's more of a
> cultural festival than a market).

Uh-huh, and the entrant specifically said he or she was talking about
the ones in the Netherlands. It isn't necessary for the thing to
*always* require a ticket in order to be a correct answer; only that
people *do* buy a ticket for it, sometimes, somewhere.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "If gravity stops working, a power cut is
msb@vex.net | the least of your problems." -- David Bell

My text in this article is in the public domain.