[SOLVED] RBK50-100NAS (1 Router/2 Satellites) vs Asus ROG Rapture GT-AX11000 Wifi6 (not 6e)?

DCtx88

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Just wondering am I doing more harm than good switching from the Orbi setup to the Asus? In a 1 story home, 2k sqft. Since I have no other asus routers (except a tmobile asus1900) to mesh with. I was thinking of adding a unifi ac pro long range to cover wifi in the dead space areas.

Which of these routers are more powerful (the 3 pack of orbis, or the asus paired up with a unifi pro ac lr)?
 
Have you purchased the asus box if not I would go to wifi6e. They are just pretending that they can actually get 2 160mhz signals in the 5g band to get that huge speed number. You will be extremely lucky to get 1. There are all kinds of things that cause it to drop back to 80mhz bands like weather radar. Wifi6e has lots more bandwidth so might actually be able to get those speeds. That box is fancy but it might not run any faster than your 1900 router. All depends on your end devices, most of which even if they support wifi6 do not support 160mhz bands and 1024QAM only works well close to the router.

If you connect them via etherent I don't think there will be a lot of difference. The term "mesh" generally means wireless repeater which you should not do unless you have no other option. Most wifi6 stuff running mesh is not any faster than 802.11ac....again because of the issues getting 160mhz radio bands made even worse when you run as a repeater. Hooking a unifi AP up will still be 1 network and it will switch between the main router and the AP. This is not really a "mesh" thing the end client is in full control and will switch between the AP and the router. Key is to get the power levels correct so the 2 signals overlap as little as possible. If you get too much overlap the end device may not switch.

The only concern I have is I don't know what happens if you have a end device connected to the main router using wifi6 that then attempt to roam to the unifi AP running 802.11ac. It will likely switch over but you will likely get a slightly longer hand over outage.
 
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kanewolf

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Just wondering am I doing more harm than good switching from the Orbi setup to the Asus? In a 1 story home, 2k sqft. Since I have no other asus routers (except a tmobile asus1900) to mesh with. I was thinking of adding a unifi ac pro long range to cover wifi in the dead space areas.

Which of these routers are more powerful (the 3 pack of orbis, or the asus paired up with a unifi pro ac lr)?
The UniFI will have to be wired. It will not wirelessly connect to the Asus. If you have wired infrastructure, the orbi with wired backhaul would be best.
 
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Have you purchased the asus box if not I would go to wifi6e. They are just pretending that they can actually get 2 160mhz signals in the 5g band to get that huge speed number. You will be extremely lucky to get 1. There are all kinds of things that cause it to drop back to 80mhz bands like weather radar. Wifi6e has lots more bandwidth so might actually be able to get those speeds. That box is fancy but it might not run any faster than your 1900 router. All depends on your end devices, most of which even if they support wifi6 do not support 160mhz bands and 1024QAM only works well close to the router.

If you connect them via etherent I don't think there will be a lot of difference. The term "mesh" generally means wireless repeater which you should not do unless you have no other option. Most wifi6 stuff running mesh is not any faster than 802.11ac....again because of the issues getting 160mhz radio bands made even worse when you run as a repeater. Hooking a unifi AP up will still be 1 network and it will switch between the main router and the AP. This is not really a "mesh" thing the end client is in full control and will switch between the AP and the router. Key is to get the power levels correct so the 2 signals overlap as little as possible. If you get too much overlap the end device may not switch.

The only concern I have is I don't know what happens if you have a end device connected to the main router using wifi6 that then attempt to roam to the unifi AP running 802.11ac. It will likely switch over but you will likely get a slightly longer hand over outage.
 
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DCtx88

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The UniFI will have to be wired. It will not wirelessly connect to the Asus. If you have wired infrastructure, the orbi with wired backhaul would be best.
Oh ok. I dont have a way to wire the Unifi. I'm guessing I would have to hack a tm1900 router or buy a ac asus router to truly get mesh?
Have you purchased the asus box if not I would go to wifi6e. They are just pretending that they can actually get 2 160mhz signals in the 5g band to get that huge speed number. You will be extremely lucky to get 1. There are all kinds of things that cause it to drop back to 80mhz bands like weather radar. Wifi6e has lots more bandwidth so might actually be able to get those speeds. That box is fancy but it might not run any faster than your 1900 router. All depends on your end devices, most of which even if they support wifi6 do not support 160mhz bands and 1024QAM only works well close to the router.

If you connect them via etherent I don't think there will be a lot of difference. The term "mesh" generally means wireless repeater which you should not do unless you have no other option. Most wifi6 stuff running mesh is not any faster than 802.11ac....again because of the issues getting 160mhz radio bands made even worse when you run as a repeater. Hooking a unifi AP up will still be 1 network and it will switch between the main router and the AP. This is not really a "mesh" thing the end client is in full control and will switch between the AP and the router. Key is to get the power levels correct so the 2 signals overlap as little as possible. If you get too much overlap the end device may not switch.

The only concern I have is I don't know what happens if you have a end device connected to the main router using wifi6 that then attempt to roam to the unifi AP running 802.11ac. It will likely switch over but you will likely get a slightly longer hand over outage.
So should I keep my orbi tri pack, or is the rog going to be better (yes I already have it)?

I do have the following as well:

  • Google ac 2200 routers 3x in a pack
  • Nighthawk AX8
  • Netgear Ax1800 router
  • T-mobile 1900 ac router
 
They are all going to suffer from being wireless repeaters. Since these are always a last option I do not stay up on the details. For best results you want devices have extra dedicated radios for the backhaul. So you would say have a device that has 2 5g radios and a 2.4. It would use 1 of the 5g radios to talk between the units and the other 2 radios to talk to the end users. This makes these more expensive but if you do not buy units like this they are just the old style repeaters. With dedicated backhaul radios you get somewhat better performance but you still have 2 radio signals that can be interfered with.

I would try very hard to get some form of wired backhaul. Ethernet is the best. If you have coax cable you can use MoCA which is almost as good and then you can consider powerline networks. When none of these options works then you start looking at wireless repeater/mesh systems.

My general guess is your orbi will be just as good. It depends which model you have. The ones with the extra radio chips work as well as you can expect for a repeater system. Key to performance is proper placement. Too many people just stick them in the remote rooms rather than place them half way between the main router and the end devices.
 
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DCtx88

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They are all going to suffer from being wireless repeaters. Since these are always a last option I do not stay up on the details. For best results you want devices have extra dedicated radios for the backhaul. So you would say have a device that has 2 5g radios and a 2.4. It would use 1 of the 5g radios to talk between the units and the other 2 radios to talk to the end users. This makes these more expensive but if you do not buy units like this they are just the old style repeaters. With dedicated backhaul radios you get somewhat better performance but you still have 2 radio signals that can be interfered with.

I would try very hard to get some form of wired backhaul. Ethernet is the best. If you have coax cable you can use MoCA which is almost as good and then you can consider powerline networks. When none of these options works then you start looking at wireless repeater/mesh systems.

My general guess is your orbi will be just as good. It depends which model you have. The ones with the extra radio chips work as well as you can expect for a repeater system. Key to performance is proper placement. Too many people just stick them in the remote rooms rather than place them half way between the main router and the end devices.
I was thinking about selling it because I have the first models, and I thought getting the rog ax 11000 would benefit me if I game and lower the ping. Also I dont think the orbis I have are wifi6 (I got the early ac3000 3x pack). I do have some netgear power adapters and a few gigabit moca adapters. I just wanted a good wifi signal for the basic devices I have on the other side of the house.
 
If you have moca go with the router and remote AP solution. The newer moca get full gigabit speed so will function as a ethernet cable.

It does not really matter what combination of devices you use. Your orbi can run as AP if you want. Using remote AP is still the enterprise standard solution. They do not use mesh, that is only something home user do.

It is all one network which is the primary concern and the so called roaming will never be fixed until the network rather than the end device controls it. There are almost no applications that need seamless roaming. Do people actually try to watch netflix while they walk down the stairs in their house ? :). The device will eventually switch over if you adjust the radio power correctly.
 
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DCtx88

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If you have moca go with the router and remote AP solution. The newer moca get full gigabit speed so will function as a ethernet cable.

It does not really matter what combination of devices you use. Your orbi can run as AP if you want. Using remote AP is still the enterprise standard solution. They do not use mesh, that is only something home user do.

It is all one network which is the primary concern and the so called roaming will never be fixed until the network rather than the end device controls it. There are almost no applications that need seamless roaming. Do people actually try to watch netflix while they walk down the stairs in their house ? :). The device will eventually switch over if you adjust the radio power correctly.
I have this moca adapter (Just one): actiontec ecb6250

So I could theoretically do this:

Sell one of the orbi satellites and router, use one as a ap, and use the rog? Or use the moca adapter and plug in one of the ubuqti ac and setup as a ap?
 

kanewolf

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I was thinking about selling it because I have the first models, and I thought getting the rog ax 11000 would benefit me if I game and lower the ping. Also I dont think the orbis I have are wifi6 (I got the early ac3000 3x pack). I do have some netgear power adapters and a few gigabit moca adapters. I just wanted a good wifi signal for the basic devices I have on the other side of the house.
Your router is generally a very small component of ping performance, especially if you have high speed symmetric internet. Don't buy into the hype of "gaming" routers.
 
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DCtx88

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Your router is generally a very small component of ping performance, especially if you have high speed symmetric internet. Don't buy into the hype of "gaming" routers.
So what you are saying is that compared to the ax-11000, the orbi I have could acheieve just as close or better speeds/ping?

My whole reason for moving to the rog is for the wifi 6 and that its newer. I felt as though the orbi will be obsolete soon as more devices are more suited and ready for wifi6. There is no cost as I actually won most of this gear (so its more of defeating depreciation/obsolescence beforehand).

I did do some speed test with the rog so far and compared to orbi, seems like the speed is a bit slower, but the orbi had a 0.37 packet loss, whereas the rog is 0.
 
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Wifi6 will be faster if you have end devices that can actually use it. The key here is huge extra bandwidth going from 80mhz to 160mhz.

The ping time is going to be about the same. What wifi6 does in theory at least is allow multiple wifi6 device to coexist better. This is a feature called MU-OFDMA. Not all end devices support this mode and you trade speed for having multiple device talking at the same time. So if you take the case of lots of simultaneous use device the ping might be a little better. I am not sure if you can run a mix of MU_OFDMA and the older 802.11ac, maybe. Not many people use MU_OFDMA mode.

BUT this is mostly theory it does not fix the problem of the neighbor stomping on your signals.

Ping time doesn't really matter much to anything other than online games and you should not be playing online games over wifi anyway.

Maybe just coincidence you are getting more loss to the orbi. You would have to be sure they were running on the same radio channels for example. In addition if you directly connect to the asus router but were connecting to one of the satelite orbi that is very common and why you do not use repeater systems. You have 2 radio hops both of which can take data loss rather than 1.
 

gggplaya

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Your LAN ping will be small no matter what you use. Saving 1-2ms inside your lan is negligible compared to the hop from your house to the game server which could be 20-60ms.

What bandwidth internet package do you have? The only advantage I see to going with an Asus router is the ability to install Merlin and enable better QOS algorithms like CAKE or FQ_Codel. These are very powerful processor intensive traffic shaping algorithms though, so even with Asus's most powerful ARM processor, you're looking at a maximum speed of about 300-400mbps before the processor maxes out. If your internet package is below that, then you'll be fine.
 

DCtx88

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Your LAN ping will be small no matter what you use. Saving 1-2ms inside your lan is negligible compared to the hop from your house to the game server which could be 20-60ms.

What bandwidth internet package do you have? The only advantage I see to going with an Asus router is the ability to install Merlin and enable better QOS algorithms like CAKE or FQ_Codel. These are very powerful processor intensive traffic shaping algorithms though, so even with Asus's most powerful ARM processor, you're looking at a maximum speed of about 300-400mbps before the processor maxes out. If your internet package is below that, then you'll be fine.
Well I would game using ethernet, but I was looking at overall speed, coverage, futureproofing, and trying my best to sell whatever gear that may depreciate and lose value sooner than later. My reasoning was since the orbi I have only does up to wifi5, to sell it all, switch to the rog, and either find a cheap asus router to mesh with to cover and deadzones, or add a google ac2200 router or unifi (using a powerline adapter) and setup as a ap.

Right now I am on a 400mbps on xfinity, but intend to upgrade to 600 or 1gig speeds. I do have a s33 modem.

So what you are saying is the rbk50-100nas will out perform the rog ax-11000 or is there any cons?
 

kanewolf

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Well I would game using ethernet, but I was looking at overall speed, coverage, futureproofing, and trying my best to sell whatever gear that may depreciate and lose value sooner than later. My reasoning was since the orbi I have only does up to wifi5, to sell it all, switch to the rog, and either find a cheap asus router to mesh with to cover and deadzones, or add a google ac2200 router or unifi (using a powerline adapter) and setup as a ap.

Right now I am on a 400mbps on xfinity, but intend to upgrade to 600 or 1gig speeds. I do have a s33 modem.

So what you are saying is the rbk50-100nas will out perform the rog ax-11000 or is there any cons?
For gaming with xfinity, the upload bandwidth is more important than download since xfinitiy isn't symmetric like FIOS.
 

DCtx88

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For gaming with xfinity, the upload bandwidth is more important than download since xfinitiy isn't symmetric like FIOS.
So based on that, am I thinking backwards then? Just keep the orbi and wait until its value is near 0? I just didnt want to hang on to it and feel like musical chairs (where its worthless and I find myself having shell out more money to upgrade). I understand wifi6e is new, and even though the rog or ax8 8 stream is wifi6, I was just thinking they were better than the 1st gen orbi.
 

gggplaya

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So based on that, am I thinking backwards then? Just keep the orbi and wait until its value is near 0? I just didnt want to hang on to it and feel like musical chairs (where its worthless and I find myself having shell out more money to upgrade). I understand wifi6e is new, and even though the rog or ax8 8 stream is wifi6, I was just thinking they were better than the 1st gen orbi.
Wifi 6 isn't much better than wifi5 in terms of speed or latency unless you have alot of devices connected to the same antenna and they're all fighting to queue data. Wifi 6 allows data to share the antenna streams much better. But if you're not sharing your wifi with a bunch of people, all hogging bandwidth. You won't notice any difference.

Now Wifi6E, as Bill pointed out earlier, is a game changer. It actually allows you to use the 160mhz channel thanks to adding the 6ghz spectrum. This will instadouble your current bandwidth as long as you have good connection strength. It won't travel as far as 2.4ghz, but if you are near the access point, 6ghz will give great speeds of 800+mbps with a standard 2x2 antenna.

FQ_Codel and CAKE QOS does work on both download and upload bandwidth. It is important on download bandwidth for gaming when your download bandwidth is being saturated. It'll traffic shape to throttle the hogging user which can easily happen during a PC or console game update. The problem is ARM processors aren't fast enough to run these QOS algorithms more than say 300-400mbps. You have to build your own router with an x86 processor to acheive gigabit+ speeds, which is what I did. I built my router with an AMD Athlon 3000G processor, and it handles it well.
 

DCtx88

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Wifi 6 isn't much better than wifi5 in terms of speed or latency unless you have alot of devices connected to the same antenna and they're all fighting to queue data. Wifi 6 allows data to share the antenna streams much better. But if you're not sharing your wifi with a bunch of people, all hogging bandwidth. You won't notice any difference.

Now Wifi6E, as Bill pointed out earlier, is a game changer. It actually allows you to use the 160mhz channel thanks to adding the 6ghz spectrum. This will instadouble your current bandwidth as long as you have good connection strength. It won't travel as far as 2.4ghz, but if you are near the access point, 6ghz will give great speeds of 800+mbps with a standard 2x2 antenna.

FQ_Codel and CAKE QOS does work on both download and upload bandwidth. It is important on download bandwidth for gaming when your download bandwidth is being saturated. It'll traffic shape to throttle the hogging user which can easily happen during a PC or console game update. The problem is ARM processors aren't fast enough to run these QOS algorithms more than say 300-400mbps. You have to build your own router with an x86 processor to acheive gigabit+ speeds, which is what I did. I built my router with an AMD Athlon 3000G processor, and it handles it well.
I see makes sesne. So in terms of depreciation and coverage, would it hurt selling my orbi now, or should I sell the asus rog? I'm at a home about 2000-2200sqft, and I just dont want to feel like I'm making a bad decision selling my orbi tripack for $200, whereas I can sell the rog for about $300-400. I received all of this gear for free (well had to pay about $50 when you include the food and gas to pick them up), so thats what I'm really trying to decide between coverage, depreciation, futureproof/having to upgrade later.
 

kanewolf

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I see makes sesne. So in terms of depreciation and coverage, would it hurt selling my orbi now, or should I sell the asus rog? I'm at a home about 2000-2200sqft, and I just dont want to feel like I'm making a bad decision selling my orbi tripack for $200, whereas I can sell the rog for about $300-400. I received all of this gear for free (well had to pay about $50 when you include the food and gas to pick them up), so thats what I'm really trying to decide between coverage, depreciation, futureproof/having to upgrade later.
Without some wired infrastructure, your guess is as good as anybody's. My recommendation would be to sell the ROG, since it is newer and gamers will think it is "cool". Then use that money to pay a professional to get wired connectivity to the areas not covered by your basestation Orbi. You can then run the Orbi satellites with wired backhaul.
 

DCtx88

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Without some wired infrastructure, your guess is as good as anybody's. My recommendation would be to sell the ROG, since it is newer and gamers will think it is "cool". Then use that money to pay a professional to get wired connectivity to the areas not covered by your basestation Orbi. You can then run the Orbi satellites with wired backhaul.
Well to be honest, I do have a wired infastructure already I did (I am running a ethernet from the router to the other room with a tplink switch to take care of the poe security cameras, hd homerun, and two streams to watch tv. The only thing I am trying to cover is wifi for family/guest/outside/mobile devices.

My gut is telling me to keep the rog, since it does 2.5g, has a slightly better wifi 6, and just setup a powerline with a switch incase I need ethernet or to setup a ap?
 

kanewolf

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Well to be honest, I do have a wired infastructure already I did (I am running a ethernet from the router to the other room with a tplink switch to take care of the poe security cameras, hd homerun, and two streams to watch tv. The only thing I am trying to cover is wifi for family/guest/outside/mobile devices.

My gut is telling me to keep the rog, since it does 2.5g, has a slightly better wifi 6, and just setup a powerline with a switch incase I need ethernet or to setup a ap?
If you have wired infrastructure, then just connect the satellites into switches with your other devices. That will provide WIFI.
 

DCtx88

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If you have wired infrastructure, then no, IMO.
I have a half and half infrastructure:

Desktop - Wired
HDHomerun - Wired
Poe Cameras - Wired
3 streaming devices (2 are wired one wireless)
Game consoles - Wired (but some I use wifi for updates)
2 laptops - Wireless
Ring doorbell and floodcam - Wireless
Guest devices - Wireless
Thermostat, 2 echo dots - Wireless

Modem is S33 - then goes to router, one ethernet port goes to other part of the house to a tp link 8 port switch which covers the nvr, hdhomerun, 2 streaming devices, and phillips hue.

Router is in my room.

My plan is about at 200-250mbps I believe.

I am looking at speedtest so far. With the orbi I am not sure if it let me choose between 2.4 and 5ghz, but it was around 175. Thats with 3 satellites (maybe I should only run 2 with 2000sqft). Now I am testing the rog. I am getting 225 on 5ghz, and 140 on 2.4ghz. Constant 100mbps throughout the house in any area, and about 47-70mbps 10-15ft away from the home outside (thats all on a 2.4ghz band). Wondering if its healthy to run a rog opposed to the orbi?
 

kanewolf

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I have a half and half infrastructure:

Desktop - Wired
HDHomerun - Wired
Poe Cameras - Wired
3 streaming devices (2 are wired one wireless)
Game consoles - Wired (but some I use wifi for updates)
2 laptops - Wireless
Ring doorbell and floodcam - Wireless
Guest devices - Wireless
Thermostat, 2 echo dots - Wireless

Modem is S33 - then goes to router, one ethernet port goes to other part of the house to a tp link 8 port switch which covers the nvr, hdhomerun, 2 streaming devices, and phillips hue.

Router is in my room.

My plan is about at 200-250mbps I believe.

I am looking at speedtest so far. With the orbi I am not sure if it let me choose between 2.4 and 5ghz, but it was around 175. Thats with 3 satellites (maybe I should only run 2 with 2000sqft). Now I am testing the rog. I am getting 225 on 5ghz, and 140 on 2.4ghz. Constant 100mbps throughout the house in any area, and about 47-70mbps 10-15ft away from the home outside (thats all on a 2.4ghz band). Wondering if its healthy to run a rog opposed to the orbi?
IMO, you aren't "missing" anyting with the speeds you get on the Orbi.
The more you can distribute your devices across multiple radios (Orbi units) the better off all of them are.
I have never configured Orbi so I don't know what you can and can't do. For example, with wired backhaul, having the satellites on unique channels would be optimal. I don't know if that can be done with Orbi.
 

gggplaya

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This is why I built my own x86 router. It has tons of power for future proofing, so the router will never need upgrading unless we start getting into 10 gigabit internet fiber.

Then I can just buy cheaper $100 and $180 Ubiquiti access points for my house(I need 3) as wifi standards improve. 1 high density 3x3 or 4x4 antenna unit for downstairs, 1 lower density cheaper 2x2 unit for upstairs and 1 cheaper lower density unit for my garage. I literally have to do very little setup when I change access points, just add the access point to my network and hit "provision" to write all the settings from my ubiquiti software to the new access points. All my networks and passwords will be written to the new devices within a minute. It takes me longer to unpackage and mount it on the wall then it does to setup. It's a much better route to go and my network is rock solid, no outages unless the actual internet at the modem goes down or power goes out. I've never had to reset anything.

If you're tech savvy and can use the Ubiquiti software, you can buy a dream machine router and a few access points. Ubiquiti is releasing their Wifi 6E units soon, they already have an FCC filing listed, https://fccid.io/SWX-U6EP . The only problem with Ubiquiti is always sold out of their new stuff when it comes out. The supply chain issues don't help.
 

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