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[rcf84]

ATI's position as the largest manufacturer of video cards is being seriously challenged by Nvidia. ATI, despite their powerful products in the past couple of months, faced serious market share losses. ATI is now putting defences up. Today ATI announced that they have signed an agreement with Intel on broad cross-licensing agreement, which means both companies now can benefit from each other's technology and also it settles a pending litigation between the two. Here is the press release:



MARKHAM, Ontario - ATI Technologies Inc. (TSE:ATY, NASDAQ:ATYT), the world's largest supplier of graphics, video and multimedia solutions, and Intel Corporation today announced they have reached agreement on a broad cross-licensing agreement.

The cross-license agreement grants each company rights to certain patents owned by the other. This will help ATI and Intel to incorporate new features and technologies into their products, significantly benefiting their customers. ATI has also negotiated the right to build integrated chipsets for Intel microprocessor platforms. Additional details of the agreement were not disclosed.

"ATI and Intel are recognized technology and market leaders in their respective categories and this agreement will enable both companies to build upon those unique strengths," said Dave Orton, President & Chief Operating Officer, ATI Technologies Inc. "For example, the agreement will permit ATI to build our technology-leading RADEON™ graphics into chipsets for Intel's microprocessors."

"Intel is committed to bringing the most powerful computing solutions to the marketplace," said Louis Burns, Vice President and General Manager, Desktop Platform Group, Intel Corporation. "This cross-licensing agreement will enhance our efforts to deliver products to customers who are interested in streaming content, playing interactive games, encoding video or creating Internet content."

This agreement also settles pending litigation between the two companies.


- it would be nice to have a ati radeon instead of the i810 core.


ABIT BP6 + ATI RADEON 32MB DDR RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bubba]

Just another example of how Intel is going to crap more and more every day.


I ain't seen a beating like that since somebody stuck a banana in my pants and turned a monkey loose

 

[Guest]

In my opinion, in 6 to 12 months ATi will fall behind Nvidia. This deal with Intel, will benefit Intel more than it will benefit ATi. Come on, integrated chipsets, who isn't doing that. You make money dominating in sectors where margins are relatively high and not sectors where everyone and their mother is going to give it a bang.

If the heads of ATi were focusing on the right agenda(to continue to be #1) they would have bought 3dfx. Not only would they have been able to cherry pick top staff but they would have gotten some pretty impressive intellectual property(and it was a super bargain). Stuff like tile based rendering (potentially so much more efficient than Hyper Z).

Now imagine if they did buy 3dfx in 12 to 14 months we may have seen a hyper Z tilebased rendering optimized processor. A chip that would need less horsepower(read Meghertz) and less expensive memory to pump out super amounts of pixels, texels, etc.

Well to bad for Ati, they shoulda coulda but didn't- there loss, Nvidia's gain.

 

[Guest]

So, now Intel has taken the side of ATI, while Microsoft is partnering nVidia (via the xBox). That should be interesting.

ATI still have a virtual stranglehold on the mobile market - but this could begin to change when the GeForce 2 Go! is released. I predict that nVidia will come out on top, especially when the Nv20 debuts and the GeForce 2 (Nv15) drops in price. I havent heard many rumblings of Nv20 competition from ATI, yet.

Also, with nVidia's purchase of (most of) 3DFX, the Voodoo cards are no-more, and I'm sure the last (significant) few Voodoo die-hards will come around. Voodoo is a good name for a product, and is pratically a household name. nVidia could use this to their advantage. (Maybe Nv20 will be named GeForce Voodoo or something like that

 

[rcf84]

well the intergrated core of the radeon w/ a intel chipset is a deadly combo. Only this chipset would make me drool if it would ever be made:

- Support for some intel processor w/ more L1(64kb+) and L2(512kb+)cache.

- SERIAL ATA

- 8x apg

- 128mb ddr-sdram (for share memory for the radeon)
w/ ati radeon core at 200MHz

- firewire ports

- PCI-X slots

- no amr , cnr , etc.

- up to 4gb of DDR-SDRAM

- 6 channel onboard sound w/ hardware sound + digital out

Just A DREAM I GUESS

ABIT BP6 + ATI RADEON 32MB DDR RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Crashman]

Imo Voodoo technology had 3 distinct advantages over nVidia-lower power consumption, ease of rendering (the graphics chip didn't have to be as powerfull to render a similar image), and better compatability. But the sad part is that they failed to keep up with speed. ATI follows the same priciple with theirs, work smarter, not harder, and has been able to produce a product that can almost keep up with the GTS in performance (at a much lower clock speed). The point? It's sad, but nVidia probably won't use anything from 3DFX to make their product more efficient. But ATI could've used some of it to make theirs more powerfull without giving up efficiency. NVidia makes a powerfull graphics engine, but it is terribly inefficient, making it a bad choice for notebooks, and a significant heat source for desktops.

Suicide is painless...........

 

[Guest]

Seems to me all the four mentioned compagnies should be one companie.. lol the best of all worlds.. nvidia ati intel and microsnot..


rofl

Hey man i dont know .. i just think i do !!

 

[rcf84]

Never could the FCC would never let it happen.

ABIT BP6 + ATI RADEON 32MB DDR RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Kodiak]

they just aproved AOL-Time-Warner-etc merger... I wouldn't be surprised that somewhere deep in that contract it says they somehow own my house and car...

 

[Crashman]

Yep, they do. Article22 sec.30g line 34

Suicide is painless...........

 

[phsstpok]

I would have to agree with rcf84's last comment, "it would be nice to have an ati radeon instead of the i810 core."

The i810, especially the i810e variant, is, in my opinion, the sole reason for the continued success of the Celeron. Why is this true when the competition to the Celeron, the AMD Duron has much higher performance? Because the i810e systems are so cheap to buy. Look at all the mainstream Compaq's, HPs, and others selling out there for as low as $200 (granted with ISP discount). Similarly packaged Durons are over $800. Big difference.

As we move forward, the i810e is not going to be good enough as the competition is going to get faster and cheaper. What would be the replacement? I don't know but a mobo with builtin ATI Radeon GPU and a Pentium 3 would be a good guess.

Overclockers and enthusiasts would hate it but if the mobos were in the sub-$100 price range, as the i810e mobos are, and P3s came way down in price how much would there be to complain about?

No, I'm not an Intel fan and I once was an ATI fan but this is how I see the outcome of the partnership.

 

[Guest]

"You make money dominating in sectors where margins are relatively high and not sectors where everyone and their mother is going to give it a bang."

Not true. While yes, they do make good money off of high margin processors, they will make a lot more money off of the sheer volume of lower margin processors that get sold. Volume can _easily_ make up for a lack of margin.

Not too many people buy GeForce2 Ultras. A whole heck of a lot more of them will buy GeForce2 MXs though.

 

[Guest]

Well alan, I agree with what you are saying for the most part. Selling more at lower prices while increasing overall profits is what many if not all large public corporations strive for.

In the case of ATi, they are entering a market that they have no direct experience in. A market that has experienced competitors, the likes of VIA, Intel, AMD, and Micron. Then there are to a lesser extent SIS and Nvidia. Intel doesn't make any profit from chipsets- AMD doesn't want to even enter the field due to the low margins(they do it to promote their chip business). Via is a special case, they have some pretty solid relationships with MOBO makers in tawain. Micron who biulds one of the best Intel based chipsets the Samurai, is well experienced to produce some very high performance chipsets. The likes of which noone so far mentioned will be able to touch in the forseeable future- so they can charge what they like and make a profit. All Ati has is a graphics solution( a nice one at that granted) but in my opinion they lack the experience and the close relationships with MOBO makers to be able to be successful(read sell a lot for little and still make a huge profit). And it doesn't help that in a few months the chipset sector will have several new competitors in a sector that traditionally has not yielded profits for many in it (other than VIA).

 

[Grizely1]

I think Microsoft and nVidia can absolutely <b>CRUSH</b> Intel and ATi. Although ATi is a Canadian company, I don't really like it very much.

 

[Tempus]

I agree, I think Nvidia is on an unstopplable war path, and teamed up with a game system I'm definatley going to buy, I think they will crush Intel and ATI. I personally think Nvidia will own ATI some day....

- "I forgot my shirt, but I had body glitter."

 

[Ncogneto]

Ok this has got to be the most ridicuolus discussion I have seen.

For starters Nvidia makes an awsome gaming video card. Remember that folks......gaming card! To my knowledge Nvidia does not really make a product for the mainstreem office computer. For everyone of your Gforce 2's, mx's or 256's there is about 4 normal video cards doing the mundane task in someone's office. Not many people need to run MS office at 200 fps! There is a big difference between 3d speed and 2d quality and the two do not go hand in hand. Nvidia cards while great at running games have only so so quality in normal 2d apps. Ati has probably the best or second to best (matrox) 2d engine out there. You spend eight hours a day staring into a monitor and then you would appreciate this. Just because ati of late has decided to venture into the high end graphics arena don't think that they are going to give up there bread and butter. This deal has assured them of continued dominence in the office/business (non video app) area. They dont need to beet Nvidia at the high end graphics/gaming to make a ton of money. Actually there seems to be room for both. The venture into integrated graphics will be well recieved in the business oriented computer where running quake3 at 70fps is not a neccesity, but avoiding giving your secratary migranes is. The have had artx as a subsidary for sometime and together will probably soon emabarass the heck out of SIS and there integrated chipsets. Remember, for every one home computer there is between 3-4 business computers...so figure it out where's the real money at?

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!

 

[Grizely1]

Office card? They're in the high-end computer business. What, do you want them to start making pieces of crap video cards just so people can use them in their offices? I don't think so.

By the way, yes they do have an office card. The best office card, I might add. It's called the Quadro. Look it up.

 

[Ncogneto]

OMG! Dude you really don't have a clue do you? Yes, ATI recently started making high end graphics cards. But as of now they are the number one suppplier of video cards bar none, this is not because the ati radeon is so great but do to the fact the majority of office based computers use ati cards. The Quadro?? The quadro is made by nvidia not ati.....Have you totally misunderstoof my post? I was referring to ATI!

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!

 

[Grizely1]

And <i>I</i> was reffering to nVidia!!!!!!!

As for "The Quadro??" I replied to this:

For starters Nvidia makes an awsome gaming video card. Remember that folks......gaming card! To my knowledge Nvidia does not really make a product for the mainstreem office computer.

You're the one that needs to get a clue, dude.

 

[Ncogneto]

Furthermore the quadro is not an office card it is a business graphics card for uses such as cad/cam, 3d studiomax...et all. I am talking office cards that main function is to display in 2d (et office apps). This is where ATI's dominance is. Not in business gaphics where nvidia's Quadro is positioned. Furthermore the Quadro is not always the best card and has some issues to deal with yet. Read Tom's review of it compared to Diamonds new fire gl.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!

 

[Ncogneto]

I am really confused by your statements. Nowhere did I suggest that nvidia needed to start making cards for office (2d) apps. The whole point of my post was to point out to some of the people that the high performance 3d gaming card is only a small percentage of the market place. In this thread I have seen several references to nvidia "crushing ati". Well, this is not going to happen just do to the fact that the geforce happens to be a bit faster than the radeon. Hell, I am not even a huge ati fan. Where nvidia dominates the high end gaming pc which only consists of approx 5% of the machines out there Ati dominates the typical office machine which cosists of about 50% of the total computers in use. So even while nvidia is the fastest graphics chipset, ATI still sells alot more video cards than nvidia. And, furthermore the ati cards do have better 2d graphics then any of the nvidia offereings. Does this mean nvidia has to make a different card? No, only if they wish to target there cards at the office ( not business graphics office!) sector which AT THIS TIME THEY DO NOT! the agreement with intel to work closely together to develope intergrated chipsets will help to hold this advantage in that sector (office). So. as you see Nvidia and ATI can actually coexist. And ATI is simply not going away anytime in the near future.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!

 

[Grizely1]

And never did I anywhere say that you said that. Forget it. Drop it. If we we just misunderstand there's no point.

 

[Guest]

I doubt the NV20 is going to make the price of the NV15 drop noticeably in price. why? Cause the high cost of the Ultra and the GTS in relation to the MX is due to the memory...they all use the same GPU. The reason the Ultra costs so damn much is because it uses like DDR Sdram that can run at like 200+Mhz, that's INSANE...considering the Rarity of the such memory chips that can go so high, you're paying like 300+ dollars for the memory, and the rest for the card.

 

[Grizely1]

Actually it's because it uses 4NS DDR memory which is hard to come by.

 

[Grizely1]

YEah the Elsa GF2 Ultra uses it.