Really BAD tom's article, Take TWO

[Glen]

Wow that is a lot of reading. I wanted to give a neutral opinion so I figured what the hell. Let me give a little background about my self hear as I fell it will help make a point. I am a 33 year old person in a supervisory position in the commercial construction field. I have a very limited knowledge about computers. I add this info for the reason of identifying my self as a gown up person with a good level of competence and intelligence but not computer oriented. Now with my rant. I am looking to buy a new comp and am doing allot of reading first. If I were going to buy a laptop I would check out this site and others for info. If I saw a headline like that on a site of this caliber I would not necessarily read the whole article depending on what I was doing at the time other than reading. And I would automatically think that it might not be such a good idea to get that laptop.
I did read the article this time and the content of the article was good. However it could have been named more appropriately to reflect the distaste for the process that led to the purchase of those laptops or the bureaucracy involved.

 

[hergieburbur]

i dont remember complaining about u insulting me? nor do i remember even talking to u before, i guess thats what happens when u dont care who ur posting to

CCanadian_Bacon is probably hergieburbur, based on his last comment and sudden interest in a 4 page post...

He most certianly is not me. I hate when people have two personas on these things.

 

[Whizzard9992]

You're right hergieburbur. Sorry for making that suggestion: I should know better. He's probably referring to my first "Tom's article" roast. Next time I'll let him speak for himself 😉

Thanks for your input, Glen. Build over buy, if you have the time! Good luck with it. There are plenty of knowlegable people here more than willing to lend a hand. THG has a good, knowledgable community where you can usually get good answers quickly.

If you don't already know, www.newegg.com and www.tigerdirect.com are great places to order from. I'm sure others have some suggestions to make as well.

 

[Aaron McKenna]

*stumbles in, haggard and nursing a coffee* Well, top 'o the morning to ya all. Interesting thread, and some interesting points.

I'm going to speak generally, as Barry wrote the article, not me, but I wrote a very similar type article that's up there at the moment.

First off, on the thread issues of name calling, age and all that crap, I don't particularly care. So long as your opinions aren't immature or senile I don't care if you're 17 or 71. Practical experience does of course count, but on the internet I find that people can be quick to have years of experience in something if it so suits, so I'll just presume a level playing field and let common sense do the leg work.

Now, to the issue of "This article shouldn't have been written" - that's bull, and I'll give you a couple of reasons why:

First of all, as was pointed out early on, THG has expanded in the last year or so. This was done for a number of reasons, one of which is that we can cover a much greater brief - in this case, I believe that the target for the article was to aim at business and governmental organisations and the choices they make in IT. Whatever you say about the content or the way of writing, I do not think that there is any article we're writing or have written that "Doesn't deserve to be published" - we don't force you to read them, and are appealing to a wide audience, so some articles won't always appeal to you.

This is just the same as someone in business or IT procurement saying that racing to review the latest and greatest graphics card/processor/gaming rig is a bit of a useless exercise. Give and take.

As for the content of the article, one could argue that the product itself is portrayed in a negative light by association, but I think it's a conscious choice whether or not you wish to view it this way. Some things could be done differently, but you could argue to high heaven about that - I think it's a strong article.

And for the devoted THG readers in the room decrying the fact that the author never actually touched said notebook, erm, look here.

 

[Whizzard9992]

Thanks for your input Aaron. It gives me a better idea of what's going on inside THG. I'm pretty tired of this thread at this point, honestly It's been more bickering than anything.

I'm aware of the other article: I've been a pretty avid reader for a while, and it's even referenced in the article in question.

All of the points I brought up really boil down to one thing, I guess, and that is that your reader base is used to one thing, and that the THG name implies what THG used to be: a site with technical articles from knowlegable IT professionals, jam-packed with fun facts and thorough, unbiased comparisons. If you change that, and you make it a quiet change, you're going to get people like me complaining about it, and this is why:

This article felt biased and based on opinions, without a lot of facts. For example, if he's recommending other laptops, I'd like to know why. When I did research, I found that the laptops he recommended were actually much more expensive, for a non-profit nonetheless. Am I s'posed to research the recommendations THG authors make, or trust that they've done that for me? I'm used to THG articles being complete and accurate. If I'm reading an article, I wouldn't think I'd have to double-check the authors information... Some wouldn't. Saying it's the reader's responsibility is unfair because we're not used to having to double-check information with THG, which is why THG is so loved.

I was wrong to say it shouldn't have been written: there's NO content on the internet that shouldn't be written: everyone deserves an opinion. What I'm saying is that if you want THG readers to take your well-researched (and accurate) articles seriously, you need to distinguish them from the articles that may not have had the same attention.

I want to go back to trusting what I read on THG.

 

[Whizzard9992]

I just wanted to reference my first 'roast'.

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=172235&highlight=

I know I can be a harsh critic, but I try and do it in a constructive manner. I think the above article supports the point I'm trying to make in my last post. I'm afraid biased information might be a trend at THG, which is what set you apart from the rest.

I also want to note that i enjoy the writing style of the THG authors: I enjoy the humor and personal opinions in the articles, as long as they're accompanied by facts. I doubt I would have even said anything about this article if not for the first one I critisized.

 

[Aaron McKenna]

Interesting notes. Well, make yourselves heard - we're listening, and this will provoke internal discussion I can assure you. We're going to move forward, but you have as much of a say in how we do this as anyone else.

 

[bgerber]

Hi, it's Barry Gerber, the guy who wrote the article. Glad to see there are lots of opinions on my opinion piece. See below just for clarification.

1. This agency is private. In the US not all social services agencies are part of the government. The agency has a distinguished Board of Directors that includes some heavy hitters in the entertainment industry, the health field and finance.

2. Special info just for this group, that "friend" is my wife, so I've been pretty close to this little adventure. Don't tell or she might get fired. Really! I've also done some pro bono IT work for the agency and know its network and workstations quite well.

3. I've been a corporate IT consultant focusing on just these kinds of projects for 20 years. My company has implemented systems that doubled to tripled staff productivity.

4. No, I'm not sour grapesing because I didn't get this job. Right now MobilityGuru keeps me very,very busy. I'm letting others handle our clients right now and our staff has no time for more business.

5. Someone said I chose the dv4000 because I had already reviewed it and found it to be a great notebook for the right job. That job is as a desktop replacement, meaning it won't be traveling much. Actually the agency bought dv4000s and 1000s. It was just a fluke that I'd already reviewed the computer. It is true that the whole HP dv line is great in the right circumstance.

6. Dragging around 11 pounds of equipment is difficult for many people. But that really wasn't my point. The real problem with the dv4000s and 1000s for this task is that they're unwieldy. Weight and size make them too obtrusive and awkward to work with in situations where client confidentiality is at issue (no one is supposed to know that agency workers are talking to a client) and where there are no chairs or tables to rest the computer on. In fact social workers are not allowed to sit down even if there is a chair. That's the agency's policy.

7. Finally and most disturbing of all, the people who put this system together didn't take into account issues like printing or capturing the data so it didn't have to be entered twice. Instead they designed forms that could be filled in on the notebooks, but didn't plan for easily printing out the double sided ones on a single piece of paper, which is a requirement of the agency. And, they didn't even think about transferring the data directly from the computers to the existing database. Instead data entry clerks continue to enter data manually.

8. As someone noted, this really wasn't a story about a piece of hardware, but much more about people building a system that almost totally ignored the work that was being done and how it might be effectively automated.

Thanks again for taking the time to express your opinions.

Barry

 

[Whizzard9992]

Thanks Barry.

I was so consumed by my opinion of the location of the article and what I'm used to seeing in THG articles, I didn't take the time to appreciate the point of the article.

Despite my critisism of the Article's content & location, I think it's obvious that a lot of readers found your article interesting; myself included. I think a lot of consultants in the field share your frustration, and those stuck in the process enjoy a peek inside why thier jobs are so poorly defined.

I admittedly got carried away with my critisism of this article. I did miss the point of the article originally, but even after I came to the realization, my original points still made sense. It just made me feel more mislead: like there was still an underlying problem. I still feel like the dv4000 became an unintentional target, but that's just an opinion.

I would enjoy more articles like these, if they were categorized as such, and if the recommendations made had more information behind them.

Business software is the mechanism by which a business process is automated. All too often, business intelligence is left out of the development of software and automation processes. Automating a convoluted business process is always counter-productive. Any article that emphasizes the importance of software as a supplement to business intelligence and not a replacement is always good for my line of work, and the industry in general.

 

[g-paw]

I agree that the point of the article is being missed, it's not just about the laptop, it's about the forms and how they were constructed, the printing problems, etc. I work in the private sector social service industry. I have worked for 2 of the first companies that provided computers to they're field workers who worked out of their homes. In fact, I got into computers because I had to train the local workers on how to use the computer, this was more than 15 years ago. Weight and size are issues when you're working in the field. You are usually carrying case files, forms, etc in addition to the laptop. You are working in people's homes, hospitals, doctor's offices, or any number of other places where space is at premium, you end up sitting where you can. Most of the people that are in this situation only want to turn on the computer and have it do what they need it to. They could care less about specs or how fast it is as long as it doesn't take forever to do whatever it is they're doing, which is pretty much data entry. Things like not having the appropriate printer or correct templates are frustrating and simply make the job more difficult. Should the article have been written? Yes because it points out a serious problem faced by management and IT consultants as well as users. Many management people have never worked in the field and really have very little knowledge of what the worker faces. The same for IT consultants. Going to someone's office to work is not going into someone’s home, office, car, or lord knows where for a half hour. You are not provided with a workspace. Many of the above comments reflect this lack of knowledge. You cannot expect an IT consultant to have complete knowledge of someone's conditions the first day. On the other hand, they should have to spend a couple days in the field to gain an appreciation for what the user does and the conditions they do it in. I've worked with numerous consultants, usually software, over the years and too often I've heard they don't care why or what the user does, they only care about the process or work flow. The only way to get a good system in place is to know both. Understand, my hobby is computers and I love working with them and learning about them. In fact, I’ve started studying for the A+ certification so when I retire in a year or so I can get a job at a place like Circuitcity fixing and putting pieces parts in a computer. I’d enjoy it and pick up some play money, a lot of which will go toward my tech toys. I also have tremendous respect for those who have studied and really know and understand computers and software. On the other hand, I see a huge gap between the orientation of the tech professional and the everyday user. I find that too many tech people or or would be tech people have a total disdain for people who simply what to turn a computer on and have it do what they want. I would hope that articles like this would give tech people a littlemore empathy for the everyday user.

 

[bgerber]

That's a great retirement idea, g-paw. I just might go into social services when I retire from computing, if, of course, my family doesn't put me directly into a psychiatric nursing home for endlessly murmuring "Who designed this crap?"

Barry

 

[g-paw]

That's a great retirement idea, g-paw. I just might go into social services when I retire from computing, if, of course, my family doesn't put me directly into a psychiatric nursing home for endlessly murmuring "Who designed this crap?"

Barry

Actually, spending time in a psychiatric nursing home and murmuring incoherently would go a long way towards qualifying you for social service work.