realRIVEN !

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rms

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Archived from groups: alt.games.myst,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

Having started Riven after finishing realMYST, I can definitely say this
game cries out with every click of the mouse for a fully-3D detail textured
high-resolution version. Oh well.

One article I read said one reason was they weren't releasing Riven source
engine because it would be used for a project named 'Mudpie'. What was
this? Another reason given by someone else on the team was the effort
required, that all the models would have to have their polygon count reduced
drastically. That was 3 years ago; I wonder if that argument would hold up
today.

rms
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.myst,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

Ugh, I meant to ask if there are any Cyan contacts to suggest a realRIVEN
to?

rms
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.myst,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

Here, rms <rsquires@flashremove.net> wrote:
> Having started Riven after finishing realMYST, I can definitely say this
> game cries out with every click of the mouse for a fully-3D detail textured
> high-resolution version. Oh well.

I'd like to see it too. However, I'm not the one who'd be investing
the effort, so it's easy for me to say...

> One article I read said one reason was they weren't releasing Riven source
> engine because it would be used for a project named 'Mudpie'. What was
> this?

An early codename for Uru.

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* Make your vote count. Get your vote counted.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.myst,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

"rms" <rsquires@flashREMOVE.net> wrote in
news:8pzpc.2921$3_4.74@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com:

> Having started Riven after finishing realMYST, I can definitely say
> this game cries out with every click of the mouse for a fully-3D
> detail textured high-resolution version. Oh well.

You would gain freedom of motion, but at the cost of the brilliant
lighting effects and the massive amount of detail.

> One article I read said one reason was they weren't releasing Riven
> source engine because it would be used for a project named 'Mudpie'.
> What was this?

URU

> Another reason given by someone else on the team was
> the effort required, that all the models would have to have their
> polygon count reduced drastically. That was 3 years ago; I wonder if
> that argument would hold up today.

Likely still true today -- the designers of Riven would not have given any
thought to the polygon count. Since the game was rendered offline, they
weren't even restricted to polygons as their only allowed shape.

I doubt that we will see something as detailed as Riven rendered in
realtime -- at least not in the near future. Perhaps in another five or
ten years...

--
Murray Peterson
Email: murray_peterson@shaw.ca (remove underscore)
URL: http://members.shaw.ca/murraypeterson/
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.myst,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

> I doubt that we will see something as detailed as Riven rendered in
> realtime -- at least not in the near future. Perhaps in another five or
> ten years...

With normal mapping technology it should be possible today. But it's not
going to happen. Miller from Cyan in a recent interview said he would love
to do a realRiven, but probably never would because of time and money.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.myst,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

"Jeff Adams" <e@mail.com> wrote in
news:3ABpc.22747$sA.13450@fe2.columbus.rr.com:

>> I doubt that we will see something as detailed as Riven rendered in
>> realtime -- at least not in the near future. Perhaps in another five
>> or ten years...
>
> With normal mapping technology

I am not sure that I understand what you mean by this.

> it should be possible today.

I have my doubts. Even it it were possible to render enough polygons in
real time, I would still expect to be disappointed by the result. Polygons
and textures aren't enough -- I want the ray-traced lighting as well.
That's one area where I still prefer the original Myst over RealMyst.

--
Murray Peterson
Email: murray_peterson@shaw.ca (remove underscore)
URL: http://members.shaw.ca/murraypeterson/
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.myst,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

Here, Murray Peterson <mwp@home.com.invalid> wrote:
> "Jeff Adams" <e@mail.com> wrote in
> news:3ABpc.22747$sA.13450@fe2.columbus.rr.com:
>
> >> I doubt that we will see something as detailed as Riven rendered in
> >> realtime -- at least not in the near future. Perhaps in another five
> >> or ten years...
> >
> > With normal mapping technology
>
> I am not sure that I understand what you mean by this.

I saw a screenshot from E3 today... let me look...

<http://www.unrealtechnology.com/screens/character_creation3.jpg>

Look at the fine textural detail on the breastplate (the stippling).
That's normal-mapping.

Also this:

<http://www.unrealtechnology.com/screens/Spec_Wall.jpg>

The textures of the wall, particularly the edges of the large stone
blocks. (That, if I understand the page correctly, is normal-mapping
plus the new specular magic they're showing off.)

It only solves one category of visual effect, of course. But it's a
really nice category.

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* Make your vote count. Get your vote counted.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.myst,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

Andrew Plotkin <erkyrath@eblong.com> wrote in
news:c86sof$m41$1@reader2.panix.com:

> [snip]
> The textures of the wall, particularly the edges of the large stone
> blocks. (That, if I understand the page correctly, is normal-mapping
> plus the new specular magic they're showing off.)

Thanks. I also did the requisite google search and reading, so I
understand the term now. This article explains it clearly:
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Normal%20mapping

> It only solves one category of visual effect, of course. But it's a
> really nice category.

It certainly helps. I have no idea if it helps "enough" 🙂

--
Murray Peterson
Email: murray_peterson@shaw.ca (remove underscore)
URL: http://members.shaw.ca/murraypeterson/
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.myst,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

On Sun, 16 May 2004 02:58:11 +0000, Murray Peterson wrote:

> I doubt that we will see something as detailed as Riven rendered in
> realtime -- at least not in the near future. Perhaps in another five or
> ten years...

Have you run the NVIDIA Dawn/Dusk demos?
http://www.nvidia.com/object/demo_dawn.html
http://www.nvidia.com/object/demo_dusk.html
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.myst,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

"Robert Norton" <rjn@execpc.com> wrote in message
news😛an.2004.05.17.02.34.53.56486@execpc.com...
> On Sun, 16 May 2004 02:58:11 +0000, Murray Peterson wrote:
>
> > I doubt that we will see something as detailed as Riven rendered in
> > realtime -- at least not in the near future. Perhaps in another five or
> > ten years...
>
> Have you run the NVIDIA Dawn/Dusk demos?
> http://www.nvidia.com/object/demo_dawn.html
> http://www.nvidia.com/object/demo_dusk.html
>
>
>
Those are outdated when compared to the new Unreal Engine 3. See other
posts for images.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.myst,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

Robert Norton <rjn@execpc.com> wrote in
news😛an.2004.05.17.02.34.53.56486@execpc.com:

> Have you run the NVIDIA Dawn/Dusk demos?
> http://www.nvidia.com/object/demo_dawn.html
> http://www.nvidia.com/object/demo_dusk.html

I have now. Nice, as is the Unreal engine, but they still don't reach the
level of full photo-realism. I'll stick with my estimate of five to ten
years.

--
Murray Peterson
Email: murray_peterson@shaw.ca (remove underscore)
URL: http://members.shaw.ca/murraypeterson/
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.myst,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

> I have now. Nice, as is the Unreal engine, but they still don't reach the
> level of full photo-realism. I'll stick with my estimate of five to ten
> years.
>
I don't think anyone made the arguement that the graphics are
photo-realistic. But the pre-rendered graphics in Riven aren't photo-real,
so I think the current technology is capable of doing a fairly accurate
realtime version. But the arguement is moot anyway, since it's not going to
happen.

Jeff
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.myst,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

Here, Murray Peterson <mwp@home.com.invalid> wrote:
> Robert Norton <rjn@execpc.com> wrote in
> news😛an.2004.05.17.02.34.53.56486@execpc.com:
>
> > Have you run the NVIDIA Dawn/Dusk demos?
> > http://www.nvidia.com/object/demo_dawn.html
> > http://www.nvidia.com/object/demo_dusk.html
>
> I have now. Nice, as is the Unreal engine, but they still don't reach the
> level of full photo-realism. I'll stick with my estimate of five to ten
> years.

Ah-ah -- your earlier post estimated 5-10 years until you saw
something "as detailed as Riven". Now you're upping the bar to full
photorealism. No fair. :)

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* Make your vote count. Get your vote counted.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.myst,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

5-10 years? Hey, well look at the upside..
maybe we'll have true virtual reality simulation
systems for home PCs by then. I wouldn't mind
the 10 year wait for a photo realistic realRIVEN
if I could actually wander around in there without
looking at a screen. :)

DMW
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.myst,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

Andrew Plotkin <erkyrath@eblong.com> wrote in
news:c89eel$f2m$1@reader2.panix.com:

> Ah-ah -- your earlier post estimated 5-10 years until you saw
> something "as detailed as Riven". Now you're upping the bar to full
> photorealism. No fair. :)

I've been caught 🙂 Actually, I should re-install Riven and play with it
a bit -- my memory may be playing tricks on me. I was considering the two
(photorealism and Riven) to be close to the same thing.

--
Murray Peterson
Email: murray_peterson@shaw.ca (remove underscore)
URL: http://members.shaw.ca/murraypeterson/
 
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