Recommendation for UPS for gaming PC

[CmdrRiker]

Hi all,

Would anyone be able to recommend a UPS for my gaming PC? It is currently fitted with this power supply: https://pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-power-supply-cmpsu750hx

I've been trying to figure out how to calculate what this power supply pulls from the wall, and then find the appropriate UPS that would give me 5-10 minutes to properly shut down my PC. I've been reading up on this the last couple of nights, but can't quite seem to fully wrap my head around it. Any advice would be very much appreciate!!

 

[C12Friedman]

I've been using CyberPower UPS's for the past 3+ years, IMO they represent a good value. The HX 750 is an Active PFC PSU so a sine-wave compatible UPS is desired like these http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/pfc-sinewave-series.html, I'm currently using the CyberPower CP1350PFCLCD 810W on my gaming rig (which also provides battery power for my 46" TV/monitor) but my i7 system is on a CyberPower CP850PFCLCD 510W which seems to be just right

The most accurate power calculator I've found is http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp (I still think it is a little generous at times)

 

[CmdrRiker]

I've been using CyberPower UPS's for the past 3+ years, IMO they represent a good value. The HX 750 is an Active PFC PSU so a sine-wave compatible UPS is desired like these http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/pfc-sinewave-series.html, I'm currently using the CyberPower CP1350PFCLCD 810W on my gaming rig (which also provides battery power for my 46" TV/monitor) but my i7 system is on a CyberPower CP850PFCLCD 510W which seems to be just right

The most accurate power calculator I've found is http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp (I still think it is a little generous at times)

Thank you for the feedback and the link. I'm not sure I'm understanding this correctly though - I input all the values and it appears to just recommend a PSU for me based on my recommended PSU wattage. Based on my understanding, shouldn't I be basing on my decision for a UPS on my maximum "pull" from my outlet?

 

[C12Friedman]

You do want your UPS to be rated for at least as many watts as you will pull from the outlet but, keep in mind your PSU is only running at about 50% (if properly sized to your build) of it's rating. There shouldn't be any situation where your PSU is supplying it's rated wattage (again, if properly sized to your build). The PSU rating should be higher wattage than the UPS in most cases since the UPS can be at near 100% while the PSU should be at ~50% load (PSU calculator goes at about 50%-60% for the PSU recommendation)

When I built my i5 gaming rig, I had it on a 350W UPS with a 750W PSU but it was a crappy PSU which didn't last too long, I replaced that PSU with a quality PSU featuring Active PFC and my UPS didn't work properly anymore* (it did give an overload alarm when the TV was also connected to it), that's when I found out about the need for the UPS to generate a sine-wave type signal that the new PSU could work with. It now has the CP1350PFCLCD (like I said, with TV too) and I pull ~420W from the wall and have about 8 minutes of battery run time (the software shuts down my rig when the battery gets down to 3 minutes run time if I'm not around)
* by not working properly I mean, it still supplied power to my rig but it wouldn't keep it running during power outages (I average about 3 per month here)
My i7 rig pulls about 370W from the wall and I have about 12 minutes run time with the CP850PFCLCD (the software that lets you monitor that is nice but virtually all UPS manufactures offer that)

Summary, you're probably going to be drawing a lot less than you think, the UPS should let you know.

If you want to share your build specs here, I can give you a rough rundown of your possible power draws

 

[CmdrRiker]

You do want your UPS to be rated for at least as many watts as you will pull from the outlet but, keep in mind your PSU is only running at about 50% (if properly sized to your build) of it's rating. There shouldn't be any situation where your PSU is supplying it's rated wattage (again, if properly sized to your build). The PSU rating should be higher wattage than the UPS in most cases since the UPS can be at near 100% while the PSU should be at ~50% load (PSU calculator goes at about 50%-60% for the PSU recommendation)

When I built my i5 gaming rig, I had it on a 350W UPS with a 750W PSU but it was a crappy PSU which didn't last too long, I replaced that PSU with a quality PSU featuring Active PFC and my UPS didn't work properly anymore* (it did give an overload alarm when the TV was also connected to it), that's when I found out about the need for the UPS to generate a sine-wave type signal that the new PSU could work with. It now has the CP1350PFCLCD (like I said, with TV too) and I pull ~420W from the wall and have about 8 minutes of battery run time (the software shuts down my rig when the battery gets down to 3 minutes run time if I'm not around)
* by not working properly I mean, it still supplied power to my rig but it wouldn't keep it running during power outages (I average about 3 per month here)
My i7 rig pulls about 370W from the wall and I have about 12 minutes run time with the CP850PFCLCD (the software that lets you monitor that is nice but virtually all UPS manufactures offer that)

Summary, you're probably going to be drawing a lot less than you think, the UPS should let you know.

If you want to share your build specs here, I can give you a rough rundown of your possible power draws

Ok, I think I'm beginning to understand a bit more now about how PSU operate and the pull from the outlet. I appreciate the clarification. If you could review my build specs and make a recommendation, I would truly appreciate it!

My build is here: http://pcpartpicker.com/user/GLaDOS/saved/Z44scf

In addition to that, I also have about 6 peripherals plugged into the tower which draw power from it (I'm guessing it's insignificant, but I thought I'd throw it out there). Again, I do sincerely appreciate your help and guidance!

 

[C12Friedman]

This first part will be a rough estimate of power usage by component
The CPU, the 4770k is spec'd to 84W TDP - it is possible to pull more through it but without sub-zero cooling it'll max out at ~100W (we'll call it 100)
The Corsair H100i is about 15W including fans
Motherboards on average use about 35W, we'll be generous and call it 75W
Ram, negligible, about 15W
The GTX 780 pulls about as much power as my HD7970, about 260W max
Drives are also insignificant as far as power, each drawing about 0.5A - 2A (2W-10W) which brings us to USB peripherals, USB 2.0 limits at .5A while USB 3.0 can go up to 2A (2.5W or 10W each, anything drawing more than that requires external power)
So, being super generous, I get about 460W as the max you could hope to pull
With the efficiency of the HX750 in there, I'm going to predict you'll be drawing about 375-400 from the wall under extreme conditions (please let me know once you find out - I want to see how close I got)
Here's a thread I did about power usage on my 4770k machine http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2045490/power-drawing-awaits.html about a year ago - at stock speed, fully taxed (Intel Burn Test and FurMark at the same time) I maxed at 389W from the wall (I found the numbers intriguing)

 

[CmdrRiker]

This first part will be a rough estimate of power usage by component
The CPU, the 4770k is spec'd to 84W TDP - it is possible to pull more through it but without sub-zero cooling it'll max out at ~100W (we'll call it 100)
The Corsair H100i is about 15W including fans
Motherboards on average use about 35W, we'll be generous and call it 75W
Ram, negligible, about 15W
The GTX 780 pulls about as much power as my HD7970, about 260W max
Drives are also insignificant as far as power, each drawing about 0.5A - 2A (2W-10W) which brings us to USB peripherals, USB 2.0 limits at .5A while USB 3.0 can go up to 2A (2.5W or 10W each, anything drawing more than that requires external power)
So, being super generous, I get about 460W as the max you could hope to pull
With the efficiency of the HX750 in there, I'm going to predict you'll be drawing about 375-400 from the wall under extreme conditions (please let me know once you find out - I want to see how close I got)
Here's a thread I did about power usage on my 4770k machine http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2045490/power-drawing-awaits.html about a year ago - at stock speed, fully taxed (Intel Burn Test and FurMark at the same time) I maxed at 389W from the wall (I found the numbers intriguing)

Thanks so much for the breakdown! I will certainly let you know how close you were!!

Based on my understanding so far of UPS units and the 375-400W estimate, should I be looking for a UPS that provides 700-800W range? Perhaps something like this: http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP1500AVRLCD-Intelligent-1500VA-Mini-Tower/dp/B000FBK3QK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1422592399&sr=8-2&keywords=ups

 

[C12Friedman]

Based on my understanding so far of UPS units and the 375-400W estimate, should I be looking for a UPS that provides 700-800W range? Perhaps something like this: http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP1500AVRLCD-Intelligent-1500VA-Mini-Tower/dp/B000FBK3QK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1422592399&sr=8-2&keywords=ups

Your UPS can actually be 450-500W, it's your PSU that should draw about 50%, the UPS can be up to 100% of load so a UPS rated for 500W should be plenty, a little more if you want to add your monitor since shutting down a PC without being able to see the display isn't fun - pretty much you're relying on the software to do it. Of course the 1500VA model will be able to provide power to accessories also (display, modem, printer) and provide quite a bit of run time

I'm going to suggest contacting CyberPower just to ensure that the CP1500AVRLCD will support the Active PFC of the HX750, they're very good about answering things like that. I'm simply not sure that the "Simulated Sine Wave" will be "simulated" enough since none of their marketing mentions Active PFC compatibility (yet most of the marketing around the "PFC" models do emphasize the ability to work with Active PFC PSU's. Yes, I spent far too much time wading through their marketing). Best to be sure IMO

 

[CmdrRiker]

Based on my understanding so far of UPS units and the 375-400W estimate, should I be looking for a UPS that provides 700-800W range? Perhaps something like this: http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP1500AVRLCD-Intelligent-1500VA-Mini-Tower/dp/B000FBK3QK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1422592399&sr=8-2&keywords=ups

Your UPS can actually be 450-500W, it's your PSU that should draw about 50%, the UPS can be up to 100% of load so a UPS rated for 500W should be plenty, a little more if you want to add your monitor since shutting down a PC without being able to see the display isn't fun - pretty much you're relying on the software to do it. Of course the 1500VA model will be able to provide power to accessories also (display, modem, printer) and provide quite a bit of run time

I'm going to suggest contacting CyberPower just to ensure that the CP1500AVRLCD will support the Active PFC of the HX750, they're very good about answering things like that. I'm simply not sure that the "Simulated Sine Wave" will be "simulated" enough since none of their marketing mentions Active PFC compatibility (yet most of the marketing around the "PFC" models do emphasize the ability to work with Active PFC PSU's. Yes, I spent far too much time wading through their marketing). Best to be sure IMO

Good call on reaching out to CyberPower. I was able to confrim that the CP1500AVRLCD was NOT compatible. So I'm looking at the CP1000PFCLCD and CP1350PFCLCD units now. I'm thinking of going with the CP1000PFCLCD. Would I get about 5-10 minutes out of that to shut down my PC in the event of an outage?

EDIT: In addition, will plugging the UPS into a surge protector (or plugging a surge protector into a UPS) damage either unit? The outlets available to me in that space are limited and I may need to consider plugging the UPS into the surge protector if that will not damage anything or make it inoperative.

Also - I sincerely appreciate your help. Batteries and such such aren't really in my wheelhouse, so I've appreciated your guidance and feedback. Thank you very much.

 

[C12Friedman]

I've never used a UPS with a surge protector since the UPS also acts as one. Something about the combination worries me though - let me look into the pros and cons of that...

 

[westom]

EDIT: In addition, will plugging the UPS into a surge protector (or plugging a surge protector into a UPS) damage either unit?

Step back a minute. First power supplies are never selected on wattage. But most who make recommendations do not even begin to know how to calculate the current for each voltage. To keep help lines clear, we dumb it down. Most systems never consume more than 200 watts. And almost none consume 350 watts. We tell computer assemblers a number that is twice as large as what is needed. A computer that might peak at 300 watts means computer assemblers are told to buy a 600 watt supply.

Those power calculators are vague ballpark numbers usally well above what is actually required. Because a supply must be selected based upon current requirements; not wattage.

Second, a UPS need only supply 300 watts or less. But a UPS is made as cheap as possible. Its battery will degrade quickly in about 3 years. So we recommend a 500 watt UPS for that 300 watt or less computer. Then a UPS will provide enough power three years later.

A UPS is also a near zero surge protector. Note another recommended without any numbers. A first indication that the recommendation is only hearsay. A UPS may claim to absorb hundreds of joules. But destructive surges can be hundreds of thousands of joules. No problem. Near zero surge protection in a UPS means advertising can claim it does 100% protection - knowing full well that others always ignore spec numbers.

Third, why assume a surge protector does anything useful? Did you assume that the phrase 'surge protector' means 'surge protection'? You have no reason to assume that. Did you also ignore manufacturer specification numbers? Best surge protection at a computer is already inside its power supply. Sometimes, an adjacent protector can compromise that existing protection. Worse, a UPS in battery backup mode can provide 'dirtiest' power. Potentially harmful to motorized appliances. But made completely irrelevant by superior protection already inside a power supply.

That same 'dirty' UPS power may also quickly damage a surge protector. UPS manufacturers quietly recommend not powering a power strip protector from a UPS. They would rather not discuss why since so much money is spent promoting a 'clearn power' myth.

Fourth, I do not see where you defined the problems to be solved. For example, a UPS is only temporary and 'dirty' power so that unsaved data can be saved. It does nothing to protect hardware. A power strip protector is only for a type of surge that typically does not do damage (due to superior protection already inside power supplies). You have not even discussed a completely different anomaly that can cause computer and UPS damage. Each anomaly has unique solutions. The solution for this potentially destructive anomaly is a properly earthed 'whole house' protector.

This post has confirmed some other recommendations. And provides numbers to expose myths in other posts. Fundamental is one simple concept. Long before anyone can recommend something useful, first define the anomaly to be solved.