Question Recommended Motherboard For My Type of Usage

Kirbyarm

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Nov 9, 2013
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Looking to make the shift over to team Red here in the next month or so. Was hoping someone experienced and knowledgeable about motherboards could recommended what motherboard(s) I should look into to pair with the new(tm) CPU. I'm not really looking for budget, but I don't want to splurge a small fortune on it needlessly either so I'd like to get it attuned to my needs as best as I can with experts' advice.

CPU: Ryzen 9 7950X3D

What I need with the motherboard:
-Maximum stability / compatibility / reliability
-As many USB ports as possible
-Ethernet

What would be nice with the motherboard:
-More than one M.2 slot (2 is perfectly fine, but I can live with 1)
-Doesn't go too crazy with overclocking the hardware (XMP is fine, degrading other hardware a ton over time is not)

What I don't need with the motherboard:
-Bluetooth
-Wifi
 
How would you describe "my type of usage"??

Gaming mostly? Cracking the atom? Compiling recipes? Internet browsing for amusement?

Stability/reliability is difficult to analyze....you can have a bad outcome purely by chance due to mediocre quality control.

Do you reject micro ATX boards out of hand?

Most any board will have Ethernet.

Virtually any board of recent generations will have at least 1 M.2 port. I'd guess more than half will have at least 2.

USB ports...."as many as possible". If that is a prime criterion, look at the spec sheets of candidates. Available USB ports will vary by speed as well as number. We don't know if speed is a major or minor factor.

I'd probably concentrate on MSI and Gigabyte and start by using the sort/compare facilities at those 2 manufacturers sites.

DDR4 or DDR5 will be a factor. Choose one or the other.
 
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My bad, my type of usage was a poorly worded 'my hardware needs', alas you're right that is probably information I should've included so I'll answer it anyway.

Graphic design (nothing that would warrant any kind of extremely powerful workstation potency, mostly photoshop stuff etc), high performance triple A gaming (60-120fps 1440p), an unspeakable amount of browser tabs, likely all at the same time.

Mediocre quality control.. you can say that again. My 13900K system has become extremely crashy and unstable randomly with no hardware change after 13 months, and it transcended through a fresh windows 10 installation on a brand new M.2 and an entirely new kit of RAM. After months of diagnosing and buying new parts the issue is still there so I'm down to the motherboard and CPU. So stability and reliability are of utmost importance.

I would prefer standard sized motherboards unless you have a really good reason to convince me why I would want to go with a micro setup with my thicc hands that already feel claustrophobic when building with standard size as it is.

Speed isn't a major factor on the USB ports at all, although having one of the more modern ports (3.1?) would be nice for external drive data transfer and the like.

Is there a reason you'd recommend DDR4 over DDR5?
 
Speed isn't a major factor on the USB ports at all, although having one of the more modern ports (3.1?) would be nice for external drive data transfer and the like.

Is there a reason you'd recommend DDR4 over DDR5?
No reason to prefer DDR 4, particularly since the price differential is minimal....32 gb of DDR 5 is now circa 100 to 120 somewhere, if in USA.

Don't know how many USB ports you would consider "enough". Spec sheets give that detail.

No overriding reason to use micro ATX....or to avoid micro ATX. It's just a way to save a few bucks, to the extent that matters.

Don't know where you would draw the line on motherboard price. It's debatable what the net benefit is of 300 rather than 200, but capitalism is built on "you get what you pay for". Maybe you tend to believe that. I have no idea how susceptible you are to marketing tactics.

Suit yourself, draw the line where you want.

I'd try to develop a list of "must have" features. Then go to Gigabyte and MSI and sort for those specific features. That might lead you to a dozen or more candidates with DDR 5.

Sort amongst that dozen with "like to have" features.

What's left varies by price. Draw that line wherever you want.

Cross fingers. Hit buy button.

Not sure I'd get bogged down in 50 hours of research due to unforeseeable quality control issues and possibly dubious "reviews". You make a leap of faith regardless.
 
I appreciate your responses and advice. I really must've poorly written out my post, I apologize for that again.

I have been researching articles, reviews, YouTube videos and reddit threads for a week now, and there is a lot of generic, vague information out there. Not necessarily in a bad way, just not specific or attuned after having experienced such a massive $2500 let down after 13 months. They tend to focus more on performance and the spec sheets, whereas I'm looking to avoid a repeated nightmare.

I have been comparing the specs on comparative models but I was hoping a few folks with a nice stable crash-free system also using this CPU personally, could share what motherboard they were using so I'm not just taking a leap of faith on a spec sheet, but someone with experience of it being reliable and such. Then compare my hardware needs to what others are commonly using. It seems pretty difficult to find said people though.
 
I was hoping a few folks with a nice stable crash-free system also using this CPU personally, could share what motherboard they were using so I'm not just taking a leap of faith on a spec sheet, but someone with experience of it being reliable and such.
That puts you squarely in Anecdote-land.

You can put as much faith in that as you want.

Certain people have good luck with "poor" components.

Others have bad luck with "good" compoments.

You decide on the correct inference.

There are quasi-semi-reliable studies of hard drives over the long term.

I don't know of any similar studies of other hardware. You are left with anecdotes. Hardware generations turn over so quickly that it would be tough to find say 100 people that had identical hardware and thereby make a plausible judgement.
 
You make a good point, can't argue with that.

Perhaps some folks will still chime in with their motherboards using this CPU.

You say you've narrowed the problem down to board and CPU.

The chances of it being a defective CPU is near zero.

Shame to give up on a 13900K since CPU reliability is VERY high.

Motherboards not so much. Major FROWN.

But I could certainly understand your inclination to replace CPU purely out of exasperation.

No major reason to go with DDR 5 either. I assume you are satisfied that the current DDR 4 has no defects per testing. I gather you have replaced RAM somewhere along the line.
 
Shame to give up on a 13900K since CPU reliability is VERY high.

Motherboards not so much. Major FROWN.

But I could certainly understand your exasperation.
I really don't want to give up on it. Those 13 months were some of the best performing in all my life.. but the instability era I'm going through right now is destroying my soul (and wallet at the same time).

When I made a post here about it a month or so ago, one of the things a user suggested it could be was a degraded CPU memory controller... whatever that is. Memory sounds like bad RAM being suggested, CPU sounds like, well, bad CPU.

My friends, some quite tech savvy highly suggested the problems were RAM or corrupt OS. I'm pretty confident we've ruled those out by this point.

What would you do in this case? Leap of faith on team red transition or try get a new 13900K compatible motherboard? (or perhaps even a replacement of this piece of garbage I'm using now via warranty).
No major reason to go with DDR 5 either. I assume you are satisfied that the current DDR 4 has no defects per testing. I gather you have replaced RAM somewhere along the line.
Aside from the fact that over the previous 3 or 4 entire computer builds inn the last dozen years or so were all DDR4 and had 0 crashing or stability issues whatsoever... would be a reason I'd legitimately consider DDR4 over DDR5, but that is an unknown gamble at this point as I have no idea with 100% certainty what the problem actually is with my system.
 
Per your first post several hours ago, I thought you'd already decided on the other team (red).

What specific boards have you used with this 13900K??

Just one?

All settings dead stock?

BIOS at defaults?

What CPU cooler?

Have you used Memtest86 to evaluate all RAM kits that you've used?
 
I'll link the other thread here, but I'd prefer not to necro it. Seems it was given up on.

https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...-i-cant-figure-out-why.3832842/#post-23178780

I haven't made the purchase or order yet, but I am very close to making the decision, hence why I'm starting to reach out instead of just read and research.
Here are the PC's specs:
-Windows 10 Pro Build 19045
-Core i9-13900K
-MPG Z790 EDGE WIFI (MS-7D91)
-G.SKILL Ripjaws S5 Series (Intel XMP 3.0) DDR5 RAM 64GB (2x32GB) 5600MT/s CL36-36-36-89 1.25V
-Nvidia RTX 3080 Ti
-Samsung 970 EVO Plus 2TB NVMe M.2 Internal SSD
-Seasonic PRIME TX-1000, 1000W 80+ Titanium, Full Modular
-Noctua NH-D14

Though the new kit of RAM currently on use (and did not fix anything):
-G.SKILL Ripjaws S5 Series 64GB (2 x 32GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6000 (PC5 48000) Desktop Memory Model F5-6000J3040G32GX2-RS5K -> which unlike the previous RAM kit, this one was listed as officially compatible on the motherboard manufacturer's website.

New / current SSD:
-Samsung 980 Pro SSD 2TB, PCIe 4.0 M.2, 2280

Just the one motherboard. I pretty much left everything default in the BIOS. If I did change anything myself it was enabling XMP Profile for the RAM, but that's it. During diagnostics of these issues I've updated the BIOS to both the latest version and a version between the latest and first, issue persisted. We've tried disabling the XMP and changing timings on both kits to no affect. Issues persist.

Even with 2 different USB drives on freshly created official microsoft website window s10 media software, I struggled to install windows 10 fresh even on a brand new M.2. One of the attempts it even BSOD during the windows install. Around 5 attempts later it finally went through. CRC error when installing nvidia driver on both SSDs fresh windows 10 installations, but if I spam the installation exe it eventually works. Many things I install, fail to install the first time. One or two of the drivers I installed appeared to do nothing when I ran the file (all directly from the official motherboard manufacturer's website, and downloaded multiple times during the process of figuring out why it wasn't working properly).

Also the CPU cooler mentioned might be on my previous build... this one I believe is a Dark Rock Pro 4. Haven't had any temperature issues as far as I know.

We did run MemTest86 on the previous kit and it passed all the tests with 0 errors.
 
Off the top of my head ONLY:

Seriously don't like difficulty in installing ordinary Windows 10 through USB and Microsoft Media Creation Tool. All the moreso if you've attempted the install on more than one SSD.

Does this PC still behave poorly if you do very minimal tasks on it.....4 or 5 tabs, shopping at Amazon; email; writing up a pork chop recipe; looking at cat videos?

Does it act poorly if you disable the video card and run purely on integrated graphics?

A PC has maybe 10 primary components.

A shade tree mechanic might start replacing those 10 parts one at a time in alphabetical order until the problem went away.

That would work, however senseless it might be.

If cable and wiring connections are proper and it's stipulated that the RAM is OK, I guess the most likely remaining point of failure would be the motherboard under the 13900K.

Is that preferable to changing CPU and motherboard and whatever else might be required if you give up on Intel entirely?
 
A shade tree mechanic might start replacing those 10 parts one at a time in alphabetical order until the problem went away.

That would work, however senseless it might be.

You're absolutely right, and I'd like to think I've put considerable effort into diagnosing the issue before I started buying what I suspected were the problem components, but I can't even claim that with absolute certainty.

My logic does boil down to my experience with previous builds having no stability issues whatsoever and I figure if I just change (almost) everything in the system, it's bound to work fine like the prior builds... I don't want to throw money at that idea blindly, but no one including myself have been able to figure out the issue(s).

It's so strange that it would work perfectly fine for a bit over a year and then just become a crapshow that transcends multiple windows 10 installations across multiple SSDs and kits of RAM. Just want the stress to be over, the constant worry of bluescreening and crashing. Need that peace back, and that sanity is more valuable than money to me at this point...
Off the top of my head ONLY:

Seriously don't like difficulty in installing ordinary Windows 10 through USB and Microsoft Media Creation Tool. All the moreso if you've attempted the install on more than one SSD.

Does this PC still behave poorly if you do very minimal tasks on it.....4 or 5 tabs, shopping at Amazon; email; writing up a pork chop recipe; looking at cat videos?

Does it act poorly if you disable the video card and run purely on integrated graphics?

Top of your head is okay, I'm open to whatever ideas anyone might have.

Yeah I've never had trouble installing Windows 10 before, it normally just worked fine every time.

The PC is more stable if there's less going on, but it still boots up with a Discord crash (auto opens, crashes, then I have to re-open it and sometimes it won't re-open without another reboot). I leave the PC on almost 24/7, and I usually come back to several crashed firefox tabs, chrome closed (from a crash), discord either open on friend screen (screen that it defaults to when re-opening, aka crash) or outright closed from a crash - after sleep etc. But still, with even windows 10 and drivers having a significantly rough time installing, the problem has to be a deep rooted hardware problem, no?

Regardless, if it's not up to the tasks I've been normally doing fine for the last decade and then some, then something needs to be replaced so that it does.

Haven't tried integrated graphics, or rather haven't tried running the computer without the 3080 Ti in it. Do you think that would cause BSOD on a windows install etc?

Funny you mention amazon shopping, those are the most common to crash tabs in firefox.
If cable and wiring connections are proper and it's stipulated that the RAM is OK, I guess the most likely remaining point of failure would be the motherboard under the 13900K.

Is that preferable to changing CPU and motherboard and whatever else might be required if you give up on Intel entirely?

Well, this is my first time with a DDR5 motherboard and yet these problems are happening, so it's really scaring me away from modern components as a whole. I don't even know what to blame, just figure a complete shift would have the highest chance of remedying the problems. I can't say I prefer a replacement motherboard, a new Intel DDR5 one, or all in on team red.

What would you do when faced with this decision?
 
Have you swapped in a presumably good power supply replacement?

You went in the toilet in late November. There is some chance that is software related. Can you possibly revert software to say November 1 status as an experiment....to include Windows itself? Probably not. Guessing you don't have images or System Restore available.

CPU failure is so exceedingly rare and CPU replacement would be the largest component cost if you ditch Intel. For that reason alone, I'd lean toward keeping the current 13900K......although you can easily find people who will regard you as a moron if you did so.

How much is your time worth per hour? Five bucks? 25? Effectively zero because you continue to think that X more hours will solve it and you hate to admit defeat?
 
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I actually got the Prime-TX 1000 PSU entirely for the new 13900K system back when I was putting it all together, since the PSU died on a prior build. I shouldn't have tried to run a 3080 Ti on a 7 year old 650W supply. It more than made up for that mishap with its years of service so I opted to go for this high end one this time.

But surely if it was software related, how would it transcend to pre-windows install and BSOD during the install? Or struggle to install drivers and basic software like Java before eventually installing the normal software I add to a system? Software might accelerated the stability issues, but surely isn't the root cause... since other weaker builds work with the software without any complications as well.

Two USB sticks, as a matter of fact - since I was having so much trouble installing from one. Still had issues and took multiple attempts to install.

Maybe I should go for a different 13900K motherboard then. Or would you think just trying to go through the hoops of RMA for another chance that this will just happen again after a year on a duplicate motherboard?

Oh I've gone beyond admitting defeat at this point, hence buying parts.

How much is my time worth to me, or in general? The answer to both is probably next to nothing. Going on 2 months of living in fear for my PC use is taking a rather significant toll on my mental health though, so I definitely need remedy this soon.

I can literally go back to my prior build which has pretty much identical software layout and usage, and it will perform perfectly fine with everything in terms of stability. Running any kind of 3D game from the last 4 years on that 1080 Ti 9900K though, and she runs very loud and hot with the fans and I'd like to avoid that since performance is also pretty bad in said later games at this point (25-40 fps etc).
 
I actually got the Prime-TX 1000 PSU entirely for the new 13900K system back when I was putting it all together,


Or would you think just trying to go through the hoops of RMA for another chance that this will just happen again after a year on a duplicate motherboard?

I take that to mean you either have not or cannot swap in another PSU on the 13900K system.

I would rather eat a cubic yard of manure than go through an RMA process, regardless of circumstances. Maybe you have an entirely different temperament. For which I would be envious.

If you RMA, you may be faced with:

MSI saying it isn't defective and denying you after X weeks of delay.

MSI sending you a "refurb".

MSI sending you a new replacement of the exact same model...for which you may have limited confidence given your current situation.

To the extent you have no qualms about spending say 250, I'd probably buy a new 13900K compatible Gigabyte or maybe even MSI of another model......with NO assurance whatsoever that your problems goes away.
 
I take that to mean you either have not or cannot swap in another PSU on the 13900K system.

I would rather eat a cubic yard of manure than go through an RMA process, regardless of circumstances. Maybe you have an entirely different temperament. For which I would be envious.

If you RMA, you may be faced with:

MSI saying it isn't defective and denying you after X weeks of delay.

MSI sending you a "refurb".

MSI sending you a new replacement of the exact same model...for which you may have limited confidence given your current situation.

To the extent you have no qualms about spending say 250, I'd probably buy a new 13900K compatible Gigabyte or maybe even MSI of another model......with NO assurance whatsoever that your problems goes away.

Oh lord, yes I am fully with you on that. I am aware of the nastiness of the process from friends and family and that is why I've never RMA'd... that should speak toward how much I'm wanting to give it a shot as opposed to just re-purchasing the same board or a different 13900K compatible one.

Bonus if I get the component through amazon and it isn't to satisfaction they are willing to fully refund within 30 days, so I'm considering going that route for a motherboard replacement.... with, sadly, NO assurances whatsoever that the issues go away.

Gigabyte huh.. so you're not leaning toward a duplicate as well. And yeah my trust in MSI's modern motherboards at the moment is shaky at best, but I do realize I could've just got a lemon and/or bad quality control and it just degraded after a while.

I've even been considering butchering my prior build (which I use as a serverbox to host game server(s)) and just accept the downgrade to 32 gigs of DDR4, 9900K and swap in the new PSU and 3080 Ti and hopefully have reasonable performance , but then I have to shut down servers that are currently quite active- so that would be a bit selfish of me.
 
There is some chance that if you spend another 82 hours troubleshooting (pronounced "enduring frustration") that you will find a solution in that 82nd hour.

Weigh that in your personal balance.

On one end we have 82 hours of frustration.

On the other end we have let's say 266 dollars, picked off the wall.

Abacus says that is $3.24 per hour.

Hmmm....worth it to pay 266 to avoid 82 hours of frustration? Personal call entirely.

Unfortunately, diluted by the notion that your problem will persist after the replacement.

And who knows, you may find a solution in 82 minutes?

Difficult call, but maybe easy for you as you are the one in the dilemma.

Yes.....on your Amazon idea considering their leniency on returns.
 
I don't mind enduring more frustration, but I really don't see any further way to redeem more clues about the culprit(s) outside of what has already been virtually and physically swapped out and attempted.

Maybe the Memtest86 results will say something, but given the old kit passed all the tests and a replacement is showing the exact same symptoms, it's hard to believe the new RAM kit is straight up a dud that just happens to work fine aside from the same instability issues that've crept up in December.

The kits must be stable for some people out there, else they wouldn't sell, yeah? So if they're not stable for my build, one would think looking at the build to be a reasonable call... but this could just be exhaustion and desperation bleeding out at this point. Difficult dilemma indeed.
 
You have a rather complex software setup...Discord, gaming, Steam, graphic design, etc.

I know NOTHING about that stuff.

Entirely possible that config is at the bottom of this...I have no idea.

Then there is always the specter of Windows Updates lurking in the background.

All I use is Windows, Office, Firefox with lots of tabs, and modest other stuff. All on an 8 year old 6600K system that refuses to fail and force me to rebuild.

You could do worse than buy another PSU, purely as a testing tool; mid level price point just to swap in for situations like this. Apparently you cannot vouch for status of current new 1000 watt model and "testing" them isn't of much use.
 
You have a rather complex software setup...Discord, gaming, Steam, graphic design, etc.

Entirely possible that config is at the bottom of this...I have no idea.
But those don't even exist when you are in the process of installing windows and it bluescreens... or fails to install drivers and basics like java without multiple attempts to run the installer files.