Refresh Rate and Game Lag

[Nautilus882]

I've been having a problem with pretty much all my video games recently. I bought a computer screen a few months back that can go up to 144Hz refresh rate but i like to keep it at 120 because I never have a need to go any higher, and I usually just keep my games at 60 fps anyway because when I cap my games over 60 fps I get screen tearing.

So my friend came over a few days ago to fix something inside my case, and he jokingly put it to 144Hz, before I reminded him that I get screen tearing, so he put it back to 120Hz. Now, we've done this before, going back and forth from 144 to 120 to test it in the past, but for some reason, this time it seemed to permanently screw something up. All of my games, WoW and Overwatch in particular, seem to have a little over than slight fps lag, but the fps never drops below 58. I was able to fix this somewhat by taking off the foreground cap and letting it run wild, but even with my fps going from 70-120 in WoW, and 150-170 in Overwatch, something still isn't right. Even if this fully fixed the problem which it didn't, I shouldn't of had to have done this. If anyone has any idea or fix to this problem, I'd be very grateful.

 

[derekullo]

--The following is with V-Sync off --

If you let the monitor run at the full 144 hertz, the monitor will display a new picture 144 times a second.

If your graphics card is able to sustain 150 fps in the game, the game will run at 150 fps.

14/150 frames would be dropped, 9.3%.

This is in-perceivable to most due to the shear amount of frames coming through making everything appear silky smooth.

Now that example was going above the refresh rate of the monitor, now lets go below.

If your game is. capped / graphics card is only to produce, 120 fps and your monitor wants to produce 144 hertz we get 24/144 or 16%.

This 16% represents frames that have not been finished drawn yet.

Unfinished frames being shown on the screen is the definition of screen tearing.

So even at 120 fps you were still getting screen tearing although it was happening extremely fast, you may not have even noticed.


--The following is with V-sync ON---

With V-sync turned on your graphics card syncs its refresh rate, the amount of times per second it sends a signal, to the refresh rate of the monitor.

If your graphics card is able to sustain 150 fps in the game, the game will run at 144 fps with the card taking a small breather knowing it doesn't have to work as hard.

No frames are actually wasted or lost the graphics card just works exactly hard enough to maintain 144 fps.

Having a bit of headway is crucial here do to something called frame variance, which is the time between frames which for us we want to be a frame every 1/144 seconds.

"This is the reason old movies, i don't think they are anymore maybe they are, were/are watchable at 24 fps, they had a rock solid frame every 1/24 seconds."

So the benefit of V-sync is no frame tearing as long as your graphics card is able to meet the refresh rate of the monitor.

The downside is when your graphics card is not able to make fps as fast as the monitor wants to show them.

If your graphics card is only able to make 40 fps and you have a 144 hertz monitor that becomes 144-40= 104 / 144 = 72% of the frames being shown twice or more. There is no page tearing since all screens are complete and are only shown at the next v-sync refresh. However, even 40 fps being shown at 144 hertz can appear to be stable as long as it is an extremely stable 40 fps.

This being shown the same frame twice or more is what causes small stutters in the action especially when the fps is going all over the place, from 40 to 110 to 60.

This is why you don't buy a 144 hertz monitor without knowing your graphics card can display an fps acceptance with the graphics settings you want. Not judging, just saying.

After all of that doomsday talk there is a solution.

If your graphics card is a newer nvidia and your monitor supports G-Sync then you can use G-Sync with dynamically changes the refresh rate to max your fps with a decently sized fps range.

If your graphics card is a newer ATI/AMD and your monitor supports Free-Sync you can use that which does the same as G-Sync, there are some small differences, most noteable the fps range is a smaller target, read if your fps falls outside of either of these ranges G-Sync / Free-Sync won't work.

If neither of those solutions are viable there is another one to try.

Create a new monitor profile with a, i've never tried this but it should work in theory, 144/2 = 72 hertz profile, try 60 hertz if the graphics card doesn't like this.

The monitor may handle a fraction of it's refresh rate better than a non-fractional number is my reasoning for trying 72 hertz first.

Another solution would be to turn down the graphics with your current setup so the fps isn't all over the place and the page tearing that does happen is steamrolled over by the super fast 120+ frame/refresh rate of the graphics card / monitor.

 

[Nautilus882]

--The following is with V-Sync off --

If you let the monitor run at the full 144 hertz, the monitor will display a new picture 144 times a second.

If your graphics card is able to sustain 150 fps in the game, the game will run at 150 fps.

14/150 frames would be dropped, 9.3%.

This is in-perceivable to most due to the shear amount of frames coming through making everything appear silky smooth.

Now that example was going above the refresh rate of the monitor, now lets go below.

If your game is. capped / graphics card is only to produce, 120 fps and your monitor wants to produce 144 hertz we get 24/144 or 16%.

This 16% represents frames that have not been finished drawn yet.

Unfinished frames being shown on the screen is the definition of screen tearing.

So even at 120 fps you were still getting screen tearing although it was happening extremely fast, you may not have even noticed.


--The following is with V-sync ON---

With V-sync turned on your graphics card syncs its refresh rate, the amount of times per second it sends a signal, to the refresh rate of the monitor.

If your graphics card is able to sustain 150 fps in the game, the game will run at 144 fps with the card taking a small breather knowing it doesn't have to work as hard.

No frames are actually wasted or lost the graphics card just works exactly hard enough to maintain 144 fps.

Having a bit of headway is crucial here do to something called frame variance, which is the time between frames which for us we want to be a frame every 1/144 seconds.

"This is the reason old movies, i don't think they are anymore maybe they are, were/are watchable at 24 fps, they had a rock solid frame every 1/24 seconds."

So the benefit of V-sync is no frame tearing as long as your graphics card is able to meet the refresh rate of the monitor.

The downside is when your graphics card is not able to make fps as fast as the monitor wants to show them.

If your graphics card is only able to make 40 fps and you have a 144 hertz monitor that becomes 144-40= 104 / 144 = 72% of the frames being shown twice or more. There is no page tearing since all screens are complete and are only shown at the next v-sync refresh. However, even 40 fps being shown at 144 hertz can appear to be stable as long as it is an extremely stable 40 fps.

This being shown the same frame twice or more is what causes small stutters in the action especially when the fps is going all over the place, from 40 to 110 to 60.

This is why you don't buy a 144 hertz monitor without knowing your graphics card can display an fps acceptance with the graphics settings you want. Not judging, just saying.

After all of that doomsday talk there is a solution.

If your graphics card is a newer nvidia and your monitor supports G-Sync then you can use G-Sync with dynamically changes the refresh rate to max your fps with a decently sized fps range.

If your graphics card is a newer ATI/AMD and your monitor supports Free-Sync you can use that which does the same as G-Sync, there are some small differences, most noteable the fps range is a smaller target, read if your fps falls outside of either of these ranges G-Sync / Free-Sync won't work.

If neither of those solutions are viable there is another one to try.

Create a new monitor profile with a, i've never tried this but it should work in theory, 144/2 = 72 hertz profile, try 60 hertz if the graphics card doesn't like this.

The monitor may handle a fraction of it's refresh rate better than a non-fractional number is my reasoning for trying 72 hertz first.

Another solution would be to turn down the graphics with your current setup so the fps isn't all over the place and the page tearing that does happen is steamrolled over by the super fast 120+ frame/refresh rate of the graphics card / monitor.

I have a GeForce GTX 780 Ti, I thought that was capable of running 144Hz?

 

[derekullo]

It is capable of running at 144 hertz.

It just isn't capable of running modern games (last 5 years) at 1080p or higher with 144 fps unless you turn details way down.

As mentioned before, if your graphics card can't produce fps the same or higher as your refresh rate you choose between screen tearing with v-sync off or small stutters in your game with v-sync on if your fps varies too much or having to turn your detail settings and or resolution down.

 

[Nautilus882]

It is capable of running at 144 hertz.

It just isn't capable of running modern games (last 5 years) at 1080p or higher with 144 fps unless you turn details way down.

As mentioned before, if your graphics card can't produce fps the same or higher as your refresh rate you choose between screen tearing with v-sync off or small stutters in your game with v-sync on if your fps varies too much or having to turn your detail settings and or resolution down.

I understand now, but I have put it down to as low as 60Hz and it has even worse stuttering then when it was on 120Hz. Not to mention before he moved it to 144Hz (Which we have done in the past many times with the same monitor.) I had it set to 120Hz and everything was fine. That's why I'm confused because as previously mentioned, when we moved it back to 120Hz something seemed very "off" in my games and this was without changing any of the games settings. It was literally in this order:

1. Friend switched it to 144Hz
"Don't you remember I keep it at 120 because I get screen tearing?"
"Oh yeah".
2. Friend switches it back.

That's literally all that happened.

I will have him take a look at what you said about the different monitor profiles and see if we can make that work. Although I'm worried because if my games are only getting a bit better by letting it run wild, and when going back to a steady 60 and the stutter is much worse, it might not work.

 

[derekullo]

Setting an fps cap is not the same as setting up a new refresh rate in the monitor profile.

Even if you limit your fps to 60 the refresh rate the monitor is set at is still 144 hertz causing a slight lag due the frame being shown twice or screen tearing if v-sync is off.


Try this with the profile still set to 144 hertz.

Turn V-sync off, this should enable screen tearing but the fps should be much smoother.
(Before g-sync and free-sync this setting was what most gamers used with 60 hertz monitors. They would make sure they had enough overpowered graphics card muscle to brute force their fps above the refresh rate of the monitor. Even today this is viable with a single Titan X at 2560x1600 and below. They can do 4k but not above 60 fps for most games.)

Next try turning V-sync on, this should stop screen tearing but may introduce the lag you are having now.

When your friend arrives have him make you a new monitor profiles with 120 hertz 72 hertz and 60 hertz, preferably one with the closest to your actual fps in game.

Once you have this chosen you should turn v-sync on in your games.

Note any dip in fps below like 40 will trigger that dreaded lag.


On another note, what did he fix in your case in the first place?

 

[Nautilus882]

Setting an fps cap is not the same as setting up a new refresh rate in the monitor profile.

Even if you limit your fps to 60 the refresh rate the monitor is set at is still 144 hertz causing a slight lag due the frame being shown twice or screen tearing if v-sync is off.


Try this with the profile still set to 144 hertz.

Turn V-sync off, this should enable screen tearing but the fps should be much smoother.
(Before g-sync and free-sync this setting was what most gamers used with 60 hertz monitors. They would make sure they had enough overpowered graphics card muscle to brute force their fps above the refresh rate of the monitor. Even today this is viable with a single Titan X at 2560x1600 and below. They can do 4k but not above 60 fps for most games.)

Next try turning V-sync on, this should stop screen tearing but may introduce the lag you are having now.

When your friend arrives have him make you a new monitor profiles with 120 hertz 72 hertz and 60 hertz, preferably one with the closest to your actual fps in game.

Once you have this chosen you should turn v-sync on in your games.

Note any dip in fps below like 40 will trigger that dreaded lag.


On another note, what did he fix in your case in the first place?

Just a loose wire that was hitting one of my cooling fans.