Regeneration + Provoke

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Regeneration:
Say a 2/2 creature with regenerate blocks another 2/2 creature w/o
regenerate.
The 2/2 creatures w/ controler regenerates their creature. Does it
still do damage
to the attacking 2/2 killing it. 419.6b says that the regenerating
creature is tapped
and removed from combat. In 306.2 it says that a creature removed from
combat
stops being an attacking/blocking creature. Additional if it stops
being a blocking
creature does that mean the attack goes through?

Provoke:
Can Provoke be used againest an untaped creature. As say a creature
that is tapped
and has a tap-able ability can the provoked tapped/tapable creature be
tapped after
its untapped by provoke?

Example: Creature that says tap to give target creature +1/+1 is tapped
and is targeted
by another creature with provoke -- that creature is untapped by provoke
is it automatically
stated at a blocker or after the untap can it retap and give a creature
+1/+1?

--------------------------------------------
Todd Beauchemin
high-commander@todds-world.net
Hotmail: Marauder328@hotmail.com
AIM: Marauder328, CaptainTodd328
http://www.todds-world.net

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Todd Beauchemin wrote:
> 419.6b says that the regenerating creature is tapped
> and removed from combat. In 306.2 it says that a creature
> removed from combat stops being an attacking/blocking creature.
> Additional if it stops being a blocking creature does that mean
> the attack goes through?

Regeneration is a replacement effect. As such, it only kicks in if the
creature would be destroyed. In your scenario, that destruction is the
result of combat so the attacking 2/2 dies while the regenerator does not.

> Provoke:
> Can Provoke be used againest an untaped creature. As say a
> creature that is tapped and has a tap-able ability can the provoked
> tapped/tapable creature be tapped after its untapped by provoke?

When you provoke the creature, it is free to tap and use its activated
ability rather than block.

--
Gravity: it's not just a good idea, it's the law.

 

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Todd Beauchemin <Marauder328@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Regeneration:
> Say a 2/2 creature with regenerate blocks another 2/2 creature w/o
> regenerate.
> The 2/2 creatures w/ controler regenerates their creature. Does it
> still do damage
> to the attacking 2/2 killing it. 419.6b says that the regenerating
> creature is tapped
> and removed from combat.

419.6b says that the tapping and removal from combat happen the next
time it would be destroyed this turn. Not when the activated ability is
played.

419.6b Regeneration is a destruction-replacement effect. The word
"instead" doesn't appear on the card but is implicit in the definition
of regeneration. "Regenerate [permanent]" means "The next time
[permanent] would be destroyed this turn, instead remove all damage from
it, tap it, and (if it's in combat) remove it from combat." Abilities
that trigger from damage being dealt still trigger even if the permanent
regenerates.

> In 306.2 it says that a creature removed from
> combat
> stops being an attacking/blocking creature. Additional if it stops
> being a blocking
> creature does that mean the attack goes through?

The attacking creature became a blocked creature as soon as a blocker
was declared for it. Changes to the status of the blocker do not change
this fact. Especially if they don't happen until the combat damage
step.

309.2f An attacking creature with one or more creatures declared as
blockers for it becomes a blocked creature; one with no blockers becomes
an unblocked creature. The creature's status remains unchanged until the
creature is removed from combat or the combat phase ends, whichever
comes first. (Some effects can change a creature's status.)

310.2c A blocked creature will assign combat damage, divided as its
controller chooses, to the creatures blocking it. If no creatures are
currently blocking it (if, for example, they were destroyed or removed
from combat), it will assign no combat damage.

> Provoke:
> Can Provoke be used againest an untaped creature.

502.29. Provoke

502.29a Provoke is a triggered ability. "Provoke" means "Whenever this
creature attacks, you may choose to have target creature defending
player controls block this creature this combat if able. If you do,
untap that creature."

502.29b If a creature has multiple instances of provoke, each triggers
separately.

Yes. It says "target creature defending player controls", not "target
tapped creature defending player controls.

> As say a creature
> that is tapped
> and has a tap-able ability can the provoked tapped/tapable creature be
> tapped after
> its untapped by provoke?

Probably. The ability of an Alaborn Veteran or a Skyshroud Ranger could
not be played at that time.

> Example: Creature that says tap to give target creature +1/+1 is tapped
> and is targeted
> by another creature with provoke -- that creature is untapped by provoke
> is it automatically
> stated at a blocker or after the untap can it retap and give a creature
> +1/+1?

Blockers are not declared until the declare blockers step. Between the
resolution of the provoke ability and the start of the declare blockers
step, the defending player will get priority at least once and can use
it as you describe.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W

 

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On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:43:18 GMT, "Todd Beauchemin"
<Marauder328@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Regeneration:
> Say a 2/2 creature with regenerate blocks another 2/2 creature w/o
>regenerate.
> The 2/2 creatures w/ controler regenerates their creature.

Actually, he sets up a "regeneration shield" that sits there and waits
for some effect to destroy the creature. This must be done while the
creature is still in play .. in other words, you must elect to set up
the regen shield BEFORE the creature is destroyed.

>Does it
>still do damage
> to the attacking 2/2 killing it.

Yes.

> 419.6b says that the regenerating
>creature is tapped
> and removed from combat.

When it's time to deal damage, the creature is NOT YET regenerated ...
it merely has a regen shield "ready and waiting". Later, after damage
has been dealt, then the regen shield will notice that the creature
has been destroyed because it has damage equal to or exceeding it's
toughness. At THAT POINT, the creature gets regenerated: all damage
removed, untapped, and removed from combat.

>
>Provoke:
> Can Provoke be used againest an untaped creature.

Yes.

>As say a creature that is tapped and has a tap-able ability can the provoked tapped/tapable creature be
>tapped after
> its untapped by provoke?

A creature that has an activated ability that has tapping as part of
the cost CAN use it's ability after the Provoke ability has untapped
it. Further, since that creature is now tapped, it is no longer a
legal blocker.


> Example: Creature that says tap to give target creature +1/+1 is tapped
>and is targeted
> by another creature with provoke -- that creature is untapped by provoke
>is it automatically
> stated at a blocker or after the untap can it retap and give a creature
>+1/+1?

It can use it's ability again, AND avoid having to block the Provoker.

In short, you usually do not want to Provoke a creature that has an
ability that has tapping as it's cost.