Replacement system for my father

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MauveCloud

MauveCloud

Splendid
May 7, 2010
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My father's computer had been acting up lately, and now has become completely unusable. I tried to run a memory test from a USB stick, and after about 10-15 minutes the video signal dropped and the keyboard num lock became unresponsive. I'm not sure whether it was really the memory, the cpu, or the motherboard, but it probably doesn't matter much, since they're all quite old. He also wants a new keyboard, since several of the letters have mostly (or completely) worn off.

Here's what his current system consists of:
CPU: Intel Core i7-920
Cooler: stock
MB: Asus P6T Deluxe
RAM: 3x2GB Patriot Viper DDR3 1333 MHz
GPU: XFX Radeon HD 5770
PSU: Seasonic X650
Case: Rosewill Challenger
ODD: Lite-On SATA DVD+/-RW
HDD: Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB
Wi-Fi: TP-LINK TL-WN881ND
OS: Windows 7 Home Premium x64 retail
Monitor: Samsung P2770H
Speakers: Altec Lansing AVS200
Keyboard: Logitech Value Keyboard
Mouse: Logitech M-UAE96

Here are the spare components I have:
2x Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB
Cyber Acoustics AC-744 headset
Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB

Zotac GTX 780
Cherry G80-11900HRMUS/05 keyboard
Biostar Radeon HD 5750
Sony DVD+/-RW drive
Western Digital Caviar SE 320GB
2x Rosewill RNX-H150G wi-fi adapter
16GB (2x8GB) Crucial DDR3 1600MHz memory
Samsung 840 Pro 256GB ssd
Thermaltake CLP-0556 cpu cooler
Zotac GTX 780
Corsair 200R case
Seagate 4TB hdd
BenQ GW2760S monitor

His usage: self education from the Internet, writing (esp. Scrivener), entertainment (videos, games, music, web surfing, online stories), RPG projects (lots, quite varied), programming (almost always Java), online shopping, communication (email, forum messages, someday video conferencing), website development, reorganizing old files

His budget: US$1000 maximum, but preferably lower.

Components needed: cpu, memory, motherboard, keyboard, maybe aftermarket cooler

I plan to put my spare SSD in as his only storage initially, and possibly add a mechanical drive later if he runs short on disk space. Otherwise the rest of his components will be carried over to the new system.

No overclocking, but an aftermarket cpu cooler might be nice for the sake of keeping things quieter or having more secure mounting (I don't trust the plastic snap-in push-pins used by recent Intel stock coolers)

I'm a little out of the loop - I haven't been reading hardware review sites much recently, so I'm not sure what's best now in terms of cpus. AMD's new Ryzen line might be competitive, but it seems like a lot of aftermarket cpu coolers will need special adapters for it.

What components should I buy for him?
 
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1304308-REG/intel_bx80677g4560_pentium_g4560_3_5_ghz.html $75
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130989 $77
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148984 $65
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126097 $15
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2F84BC9887 $81

I'd question the PSU due to age. The above would get him up and running again.

Then if you want to run newer games a $150 1050TI would be fine. Miners have killed the GPU market. Can also consider an i5 7500 cpu for $205, remove the G4560.

The stock cooler is more than enough for non overclock CPU. Gently set the cooler onto the 4 holes and press opposing corners in at the same time, then move to the other pins and press them at the same time. The stock cooler is very short now, not too much mass. Have not had any problem with pins myself and I remove, clean, re-paste and reinstall at least once a year
 
The PSU is actually fairly recent. It was purchased 2015 Feb 18.

As far as games, he hasn't had much interest in DirectX 11/12 games. The most graphic-intensive game he plays is Minecraft (with PureBDCraft textures).
 
Just hard to know what caused the failure, could just be the P6T most likely, ram maybe, cpu probably not. The motherboard can take out the PSU or vice versa.
 
Sorry, but brushing off my feelings about the cpu cooler does not encourage me to trust your advice regarding the psu, and looking at your badges here, I see little indication that you have expertise regarding psus. Also, I'm not sure why you're recommending 8GB memory. I figure since I'm getting him DDR4 memory anyway, I might as well get him a more signifcant size upgrade there to 16 GB. I also discovered that Windows 7 doesn't officially support the latest generation of cpus from either Intel or AMD, so I'll have to get him Windows 10. Some of your other suggestions seem okay, though.

Since nobody chimed in to suggest a Ryzen build, here's what I'm looking at currently:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i5-7500 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($188.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: CRYORIG - H7 49.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($34.99 @ Newegg Marketplace)
Motherboard: MSI - B250M PRO-VD Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($63.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($117.99 @ Best Buy)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home Full - USB 32/64-bit ($104.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Keyboard: Logitech - MK120 Wired Slim Keyboard w/Optical Mouse ($13.89 @ OutletPC)
Total: $524.84
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-07-05 11:20 EDT-0400
 
Regardless of your feelings towards CPU coolers, kraelic is right in saying that an aftermarket one is unnecessary. By all means, get one if you want, but it's not a requirement.

The most intensive task in your list is Java development, which is multi-threaded, so a Core i7 or Ryzen 5 or 7 would be ideal. A Core i5 will still do a good job, it'll just do it slower.

There's no point buying Windows 7 today unless you use a specific application that's incompatible with Windows 10. As you said, Kaby Lake is officially unsupported in Windows 10 anyway, as is Ryzen.

The PSU will do just fine; components aren't being overclocked or placed under intensive pressure for extended periods of time, so you've nothing to worry about there.

A dedicated GPU is a wise choice but anything more than a GTX 1050 or RX 460 is a waste.

A keyboard is a very personal choice so there's nothing we can really recommend there.
 

Interesting point, plus the stock cooler for the Ryzen seems to have a better mounting system from what I could find.


In case it wasn't clear, he'll still have the radeon hd 5770, and if that goes bad or becomes a bottleneck for something he wants to do, I also have a gtx 780 in spare components.

What about this build then?
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor ($199.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock - A320M-DGS Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($54.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($119.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home Full - USB 32/64-bit ($104.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Keyboard: Logitech - MK120 Wired Slim Keyboard w/Optical Mouse ($13.89 @ OutletPC)
Total: $493.84
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-07-05 15:16 EDT-0400
 


Sorry for trying to be helpful, but here was my thought process. You said there was a $1000 budget, but then said cheaper is better.
A large CPU cooler for a stock locked chip is overkill. K chips need a cooler, but locked chips come with a cooler. Those push pin plastic frames concerned me in the Socket 478 Pentium 4 days, I had several of those fail. Socket 775 push pins were a huge improvement over 478. 115X pins are similar to 775, maybe slightly improved
https://www.techspot.com/article/1043-8gb-vs-16gb-ram/ tests 4GB vs 8GB vs 16GB, 8GB wins. 16GB nice to have.

Microsoft blocked the new chips with a 'critical' update from getting windows update purely to move people to 10. If that patch is removed and blocked Windows will update as normal.
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/248069-unofficial-patch-unblocks-windows-7-8-1-updates-kaby-lake-ryzen
If you don't want to jump through hoops, Skylake cpu still update fine. Drop the I5 7500 and Windows 10 and select an I5 6500. To fit the cheaper is better budget.

Now that we are at this price level the Ryzen system with the Wraith cooler looks more attractive. 6 core 12 threads and Windows 10 for $300ish. I7 6700 to remain on Windows 7 for $300ish is less attractive

There may very well be nothing wrong with the PSU, I don't know how often the dust is cleaned or if it is from a smoker's household. I have repaired PCs where the PSU fail and take out components, also seen PSU with scorch marks from overheating that affect power delivery and stability.
 

Hmm... I guess I kinda jumped on you there, and I shouldn't have. My distrust of plastic push pins goes back to a bad experience with a Cooler Master Hyper TX2, but really it was partly my own fault for believing the hype that I could install it without removing the motherboard from the case, and that the shroud could easily be removed (it didn't seem removable to me without breaking it). Anyway, I already have a spare Thermaltake CLP-0556 cpu cooler which uses metal bolts but is about the same size (and I'm guessing performance) as the lga 115x stock coolers. I'm not sure what I was thinking jumping to a Cryorig H7 for a non-overclock system.


Hmm... yeah, perhaps 16GB might be a bit overkill for right now.


Interesting thought, but he'll have to upgrade to Win10 eventually anyway (once the "extended support" for Win7 ends), so I figure it might as well be while changing the motherboard etc. I already brought up the possibility of switching to Linux with him, and he doesn't consider that a viable option.


Agreed. i7-6700 is only 4 cores and 8 threads. Getting 6 cores and 12 threads from Intel would require a $360+ cpu for lga2011-3, an expensive motherboard, and a high-end aftermarket cooler (since most of those cpus don't include a stock cooler iirc, and some run at 140W tdp even without overclocking)
 
A tower cooler does indeed need a backplate instead of pins, there is a lot more torsional force on them and I can see how pins fail them as opposed to the stock intel.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/intel-115x-stock-cooling-hs-006-in.html

That thermaltake is twice as tall but less densely packed fins than stock. Performance should be identical for non oc chips. The fan is much better keeping fingers and cables out of the sides of the blades. I chose a 775 variation to repair a dell that had a backplate but plastic holding the spring screws that snapped two pockets off on the same side, whereas the thermaltake has metal screw guides.
 


I like this motherboard better for $23 more
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157762 adds two ram slots, usb-c, and a pci express x4 for future expansion

Oh and one more thing, you can download and make your own Windows 10 USB from Microsoft, then install from it and use your Windows 7 key to activate legally. I just did this with an unused windows 8 key I had.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
Click 'Download tool now' under Create Windows 10 installation media, select for another pc and the 64bit edition
https://www.howtogeek.com/266072/you-can-still-get-windows-10-for-free-with-a-windows-7-8-or-8.1-key/
 


Maybe Skylake and Kaby Lake cpus come with coolers like that, but I remember Intel 115x stock coolers as being taller than that, something like the one pictured in this post:
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/666208-Overclocking-an-i5-2500K?s=9bdaeec1015c6d3d9fa5ce6669a282b2&p=6736587&viewfull=1#post6736587


Come to think of it, I already have a Windows 10 USB installation media (purchased, not downloaded) that I used for my system. Would I be able to use his Win7 key (from the box, I presume) with that to install Win10 on his new system? Also, would re-using the Win7 key like that make his Win10 install hardware-locked, similar to OEM licensing with older versions of Windows?
 
I think that thicker one was the copper core coolers for the K chips 2nd to 4th gen. I have the thinner all aluminum one on the 4th gen G3258 and the 7th gen G4560.
 
I believe it has to be the anniversary update to accept the key for install, older versions should be able to install skipping the key. Then update to the latest windows 10 from windows update. Then go to settings, updates and security, activation and enter the windows 7 key there.

Yes, technically the update then ties windows 10 to that motherboard. Though if you tie the PC to a windows live account, hotmail, etc. Then you can use the troubleshooter to move it to a new motherboard in event of a hardware change.
https://www.windowscentral.com/how-re-activate-windows-10-after-hardware-change
 

Somehow I missed this part of your message earlier.
Based on what I've read about mixing ram from separate kits (even supposedly identical models), I'm not certain the extra slots are much of an advantage; I'd probably end up buying a completely new set of memory sticks when he needs more ram (and by the time that happens, DDR4 might no longer be the standard). As far as usb c and pci express x4, what would I potentially be getting that would take advantage of those?

Edit: I've also read posts saying that Ryzen cpus are finicky about memory, but I found this kit which is listed in the QVL for both the A320M-DGS and the AB350M Pro4:
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/WMfp99/a-data-memory-ax4u2400w4g16drz
I realize it's only ddr4-2400, and Ryzen supports ddr4-2666, but the list of qvl-approved ddr4-2666 kits is much shorter, making it hard to find one that's also listed on pcpartpicker.


I bought my copy of Windows 10 in September 2016, so it might already be the Anniversary Update (that came out in August 2016, right?). My father might not have (or want) a windows live or hotmail account, though.
 
Looking over the spare parts list, all you need is a CPU and motherboard to run with the DDR3 RAM you already have. Unless there is need for playing 4k games or maxing out a 144hz monitor or faster rendering of video, a 1050 socket CPU will be plenty.

Intel Core i5-4570 and any number of 1150 socket motherboards.

There is really no need for anything newer or faster, couple of $100 and you are done. Use the savings on a vacation. For me that is, I take tips :)
 


One small problem with that suggestion: I'm having trouble finding a place to buy an i5-4570. I can get an i5-4460, though, so maybe something like this:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($171.78 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock - H97M Anniversary Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($99.99 @ Amazon)
Keyboard: Logitech - MK120 Wired Slim Keyboard w/Optical Mouse ($13.89 @ OutletPC)
Total: $285.66
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-07-06 13:12 EDT-0400
 


You can also get an i3 for 1150 socket new from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Intel-Core-Processor-3-7-BX80646I34170/dp/B00VHKZ6I8/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_147_lp_t_4?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=ES4CA84CCMYXBBA836WY
 
Any of the larger memory brands should stick to the JEDEC standard, so buying the same voltage and timing ram not just the same MHz should work with each other. Don't mix CAS 11 with CAS 9 though they should work together at the slower CAS 11. Can add a 2nd kit if you want to do 32GB and not have to replace two sticks with 16GB sticks and have two 8GB sticks waiting for another build or to be sold. 4 sticks can affect overclocking.

USB-C is that reversible connector, no more trying to insert a USB when it won't go in. Flip the USB and it still won't go in, Flip it back and it went in? The micro-usb phones will probably start moving to these before long.

Crossfire that 5750 with 5770 at 5750 speed (yeah, I know this isn't likely), Firewire cards, video capture cards, tv cards, wireless adapters, sound cards. Intel 750 SSD. Several things fit, a GPU and a single x1 can get you one of these other types. Don't know why I was thinking he needed video editing from entertainment, video conferencing, and reorganizing old files. Had some of those older firewire camcorders in my head.

Could possibly get a little more from it with more features if you ever upgrade and sell off the old. I got a real cheap biostar b150 board for $25 to start my g4560 build, but then I wanted the features of the asrock h270m when it was on sale and included a rebate. Now I have a like new b150 board sitting in a box on the shelf.

I don't know how you feel about eBay and used items, but here is a Xeon E3 1240 V3 from a 4k feedback US seller
www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Xeon-E3-1240-v3-SR152-3-40GHz-8MB-Socket-1150-Haswell-Processor-/352107170292?hash=item51fb3909f4:g:FJsAAOSw4YdY0UKo

4 core 8 thread 3.4 GHz $175 for that 1150 board to reuse your 16GB DDR3. I5 price for an I7 without IGP. I was wrong, it seems to have an IGP P4600 instead of HD 4600. Still kind of getting the hyperthreading for free over the I5.

Or new at $276 https://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=XE1240V3BX if eBay isn't your thing.
 
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