Tablets using flash drives in thin form factor formats is painful for HHD manufacturers.
Researchers Working on HDDs Slim Enough For Tablets : Read more
Researchers Working on HDDs Slim Enough For Tablets : Read more
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amk-aka-Phantom
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What a bunch of idiots. First they made the tablets and smartphones thin as hell for no reason, dropping battery life, and now they're gonna try to make HDDs thinner, too... So now you won't be able to toss that tablet on the sofa safely or what? This is a downgrade!
phasmantis
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Something about spinning disks on a platter and lots of maneuverability doesn't seem to go together... oh yeah, the maneuverability. Sorry, but there should be NOTHING in a tablet besides some sort of flash memory. Last thing I want is to feel my HDD vibrate and hear it click in the palm of my hands...
Naxos
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They really need to work on this? Have they never seen an IBM micro drive? They are the size of a CF card and have been around for 5+ years. I have 2 of them sitting around somewhere and they still work fine. I'm sure with a modern platter inside they would have plenty of capacity.
theuniquegamer
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No one wants a 1tb hdd on a tablet gone bad after accedentaly tossing it on the table. TBH does anyone need more than 128gb or 256gb on a cellphone or tablet like ultraportable devices. BTW the high capacity ssds are going to be more cheaper to use in tablets in next few years.
billybobser
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I would prefer to move away from hard disk's completely. I can't imagine something like a tablet, which already struggles for speed to incorporate a power hungry, noisy and flimsy.
Perhaps hard disk manufacturers should diversify, not continue to make the same shit.
Perhaps hard disk manufacturers should diversify, not continue to make the same shit.
g00fysmiley
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... i'd be ok with a tablet as thin as an ipod 160 gig... why not use those tiny hdd sor storage and flash based storage for OS, combine with a good bit of ram and it should work
OMG, how short peoples memories are. FWIW, it's was done more then a decade ago:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microdrive
My first digital camera had a 384MB version of that drive. Slow as molasses, but at the time WAY cheaper then flash of comparable size.
TTYL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microdrive
My first digital camera had a 384MB version of that drive. Slow as molasses, but at the time WAY cheaper then flash of comparable size.
TTYL
GreaseMonkey_62
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It would still be slower and eat more power than a solid state drive. So a tablet would have more storage space but be slower and have a shorter battery life. I'd like to see cheaper larger capacity SDD's instead. Anyone out there working on that?
amk-aka-Phantom
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[citation][nom]repatch[/nom]OMG, how short peoples memories are. FWIW, it's was done more then a decade ago:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicrodriveMy first digital camera had a 384MB version of that drive. Slow as molasses, but at the time WAY cheaper then flash of comparable size.TTYL[/citation]
Eh, my iRiver e10 mp3 has one of those, I think. That's the point here, man - SLOW... NOT good for a tablet. TTYL
Eh, my iRiver e10 mp3 has one of those, I think. That's the point here, man - SLOW... NOT good for a tablet. TTYL
hannibal
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No?
🙂 Well, actually they are allready working on it, but it will take many, many years until ssd are even near hdd in the price. If the pace remains the same as it has been last years. As long as they manage to make smaller memory chips the price will continue to fall, but guite soon the price dropping will be slover. 10 nm is near and soon after that there are some serious problems... propably before that.
amk-aka-Phantom
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Ever since the ultrabook madness everything has been getting smaller and for what? i quite frankly don't see a reason for a super thin laptop. For the same price you can get a proper laptop with much better specs and probably a longer battery life. is a few mm really worth it?
It's not a good idea to have mechanical parts in portable devices. Remember those HDD's in iPods? Yeah, remember how they used to fail one by one by the year 2005 ? Compare that to ~400.000 flash writes, for which, say, if you would sync new stuff every day would take you... 365 syncs in a year... times 100 years is 36500 writes. Still not enough.
Flash storage is:
- more reliable
- completely silent
- less power hungry (nothing spins, no reading head travelling across the surface) - a lot more suitable for portable devices
Seriously. What are they thinking??
Flash storage is:
- more reliable
- completely silent
- less power hungry (nothing spins, no reading head travelling across the surface) - a lot more suitable for portable devices
Seriously. What are they thinking??
sinfulpotato
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- Dec 4, 2008
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WTF, stop waiting money on mechanical drive research. Throw it at flash please, then we will see prices drop as more manufactures switch, and reliability will increase.
razor512
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does not seem to be the best idea for a tablet.
due to the spinning platter of a hard drive, the platter becomes a gyroscope
because of that, it resists changes in angle. which is why you can kill a laptop hard drive by repeatedly and rapidly changing the angle of the drivewhile it is spinning.
For a device that will be in your hand, It will be more likely to encounter changes in angle which will damage the drive or put additional stress on it.
And I don't see them researching ways to most effectively break the laws of physics.
They may be relying on the shortsightedness of most people
eg they flock to devices with no user replaceable batteries even though those batteries will be the first thing to fail in the device, (same goes for hybrid cars, only difference is the battery is user replaceable, it just cost $7000)
due to the spinning platter of a hard drive, the platter becomes a gyroscope
because of that, it resists changes in angle. which is why you can kill a laptop hard drive by repeatedly and rapidly changing the angle of the drivewhile it is spinning.
For a device that will be in your hand, It will be more likely to encounter changes in angle which will damage the drive or put additional stress on it.
And I don't see them researching ways to most effectively break the laws of physics.
They may be relying on the shortsightedness of most people
eg they flock to devices with no user replaceable batteries even though those batteries will be the first thing to fail in the device, (same goes for hybrid cars, only difference is the battery is user replaceable, it just cost $7000)
razor512
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- Jun 16, 2007
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The only effective way I see for implementing this will be a tablet with 8-16GB flash storage, then a 32-120GB hard drive which is used for archival storage, eg large files are are not frequently accessed.
The content will be indexed on the flash storage and the HDD will remain powered off until needed.
That way the device can pop up a warning not to move the device around too much while the HDD is in use, or rely more on content such as movies being stored on it where the tablet is more likely to be stationary.
The area where a tablet really crushes a laptop is when it comes to low cost video consumption. Nothing like using the $100 hp touchpad to watch anime while in bed, and if I don't want to hold it, I simply place it on my cardboard stand http://underdesign.wordpress.com/2010/10/18/diy-ipad-stand/
The content will be indexed on the flash storage and the HDD will remain powered off until needed.
That way the device can pop up a warning not to move the device around too much while the HDD is in use, or rely more on content such as movies being stored on it where the tablet is more likely to be stationary.
The area where a tablet really crushes a laptop is when it comes to low cost video consumption. Nothing like using the $100 hp touchpad to watch anime while in bed, and if I don't want to hold it, I simply place it on my cardboard stand http://underdesign.wordpress.com/2010/10/18/diy-ipad-stand/
Scenario 1: user drops his tablet which has a hdd
Result: dead tablet, RMA with the fty IF still under warranty
----------------------------------------------------
Scenario 2: user drops his tablet which has an SSD
Result: you tell me. but it still works.
Give up on HHD, just let them die, this is a waste of research.
Result: dead tablet, RMA with the fty IF still under warranty
----------------------------------------------------
Scenario 2: user drops his tablet which has an SSD
Result: you tell me. but it still works.
Give up on HHD, just let them die, this is a waste of research.
bildo123
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- Feb 6, 2007
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[citation][nom]amk-aka-Phantom[/nom]What a bunch of idiots. First they made the tablets and smartphones thin as hell for no reason, dropping battery life, and now they're gonna try to make HDDs thinner, too... So now you won't be able to toss that tablet on the sofa safely or what? This is a downgrade![/citation]
Ya, but people will go "OMG 500GB tablet for the cheapz!" Buy it. Have it slip out of their hand and land on the conference table and have their 1 hour long presentation (with no backup ofc) crash into HDD head. Oops.
Ya, but people will go "OMG 500GB tablet for the cheapz!" Buy it. Have it slip out of their hand and land on the conference table and have their 1 hour long presentation (with no backup ofc) crash into HDD head. Oops.
[citation][nom]memadmax[/nom]Why???????????[/citation]
if i wanted a tablet, it would be for mobile video, and would need more than the small as hell 8gb-16gb (anything more is obscenely priced)
[citation][nom]theuniquegamer[/nom]No one wants a 1tb hdd on a tablet gone bad after accedentaly tossing it on the table. TBH does anyone need more than 128gb or 256gb on a cellphone or tablet like ultraportable devices. BTW the high capacity ssds are going to be more cheaper to use in tablets in next few years.[/citation]
tell me that again when a 1tb ssd costs less than 10 grand
and yes, if i want my favroite movies on a portable platform, than yea, i need a massive hdd.
and how about not TOSSING THE TABLET IN THE FIRST PLACE, seriously, the glass would probably break before the hdd.
[citation][nom]billybobser[/nom]I would prefer to move away from hard disk's completely. I can't imagine something like a tablet, which already struggles for speed to incorporate a power hungry, noisy and flimsy.Perhaps hard disk manufacturers should diversify, not continue to make the same shit.[/citation]
thanks in part to how much an ssd costs, that wont happen any time soon.
[citation][nom]GreaseMonkey_62[/nom]It would still be slower and eat more power than a solid state drive. So a tablet would have more storage space but be slower and have a shorter battery life. I'd like to see cheaper larger capacity SDD's instead. Anyone out there working on that?[/citation]
no, because people buy them at the prices they are at now.
and in a tablet enviorment, not a full blown pc, would a hdd really be that much slower? and how fast is the memory on phone/tablet, i would love to know if its ssd quality, or just a bit better than an sd card.
and as for my power, with a hdd, the tablt would be thicker, allowing for a bigger battery.
[citation][nom]hannibal[/nom]No?🙂 Well, actuallu they are allready working on it, but it will take many, many years until ssd are even near hdd in the price. If the pace reamain the same as it has been last years. As long as they manage to make smaller memory chips the price eill continue to fall, but guite soon the price dropping will be slover. 10 nm is near and soon after that there are some serious problems... propably before that.[/citation]
i said it before, but a ssd as they currently stand, will reach 600~gb but i was missing the fact that when cooling is figured out, 3d is a very viable option. instead of just shrinking, we should be looking into faster manufacturing processes, as that's where allot of the cost is eaten up, and than making them 3d as fast as we can make them non today.
3d and speed are the two things that will make the prices plummet.
[citation][nom]amk-aka-Phantom[/nom]Due to the recent HDD price increases, maybe not.P.S. Typed on a tablet or what?[/citation]
thats more the retailer hikeing the price, and not the bare bones cant go lower price.
[citation][nom]DSpider[/nom]It's not a good idea to have mechanical parts in portable devices. Remember those HDD's in iPods? Yeah, remember how they used to fail one by one by the year 2005 ? Compare that to ~400.000 flash writes, for which, say, if you would sync new stuff every day would take you... 365 syncs in a year... times 100 years is 36500 writes. Still not enough.Flash storage is:- more reliable- completely silent- less power hungry (nothing spins, no reading head travelling across the surface) - a lot more suitable for portable devicesSeriously. What are they thinking??[/citation]
they are thinking of the people out there who want larger storage but arent going to pay 3-400$ extra for a 56 more gb of space, and can take care of the device so the hdd wont crap out on them.
[citation][nom]sinfulpotato[/nom]WTF, stop waiting money on mechanical drive research. Throw it at flash please, then we will see prices drop as more manufactures switch, and reliability will increase.[/citation]
no we wont, read above, most of the hard stuff to figure out will be done in the processor area first. if anything you better hope intel doenst have problems on its post ivy bridge processor.
[citation][nom]Razor512[/nom]does not seem to be the best idea for a tablet. due to the spinning platter of a hard drive, the platter becomes a gyroscopebecause of that, it resists changes in angle. which is why you can kill a laptop hard drive by repeatedly and rapidly changing the angle of the drivewhile it is spinning.For a device that will be in your hand, It will be more likely to encounter changes in angle which will damage the drive or put additional stress on it.And I don't see them researching ways to most effectively break the laws of physics.They may be relying on the shortsightedness of most peopleeg they flock to devices with no user replaceable batteries even though those batteries will be the first thing to fail in the device, (same goes for hybrid cars, only difference is the battery is user replaceable, it just cost $7000)[/citation]
correct me if i'm wrong, bit of you make the drive smaller, and slower, doesn't it negate some amount of the gyroscope effect? it should be possible to make a hdd that can be moved while its moveing, and not break, and if they are researching that, better hdds for all.
[citation][nom]syrious1[/nom]Scenario 1: user drops his tablet which has a hddResult: dead tablet, RMA with the fty IF still under warranty----------------------------------------------------Scenario 2: user drops his tablet which has an SSDResult: you tell me. but it still works.Give up on HHD, just let them die, this is a waste of research.[/citation]
user drops tabblet, screen broke, hdd possibly still works.
user drops tablet, screen broke, ssd still works, doesn't matter, have to get a whole new tablet
either way, you are screwed, the only difference is with the ssd, its smaller so is less to back up on a real pc, and you may be more reluctant to do that with a hdd.
[citation][nom]bildo123[/nom]Ya, but people will go "OMG 500GB tablet for the cheapz!" Buy it. Have it slip out of their hand and land on the conference table and have their 1 hour long presentation (with no backup ofc) crash into HDD head. Oops.[/citation]
why are there so many people who bring up morons who cant take care of their 600+$ toys? screen would break probably before hdd anyway, and the person is a moron for not backing that up.
[citation][nom]jsmakkar[/nom]I don't think there a need of that huge data storage that they are developing thin HDD for tablets.[/citation]
correct me if im wrong, but if you buy a movie off itunes, its 1gb+ and you only have 8-16gb, if you delete it for space, do you have to re buy it? because that is one reason for bigger hdds, id rather never use a cloud.
if i wanted a tablet, it would be for mobile video, and would need more than the small as hell 8gb-16gb (anything more is obscenely priced)
[citation][nom]theuniquegamer[/nom]No one wants a 1tb hdd on a tablet gone bad after accedentaly tossing it on the table. TBH does anyone need more than 128gb or 256gb on a cellphone or tablet like ultraportable devices. BTW the high capacity ssds are going to be more cheaper to use in tablets in next few years.[/citation]
tell me that again when a 1tb ssd costs less than 10 grand
and yes, if i want my favroite movies on a portable platform, than yea, i need a massive hdd.
and how about not TOSSING THE TABLET IN THE FIRST PLACE, seriously, the glass would probably break before the hdd.
[citation][nom]billybobser[/nom]I would prefer to move away from hard disk's completely. I can't imagine something like a tablet, which already struggles for speed to incorporate a power hungry, noisy and flimsy.Perhaps hard disk manufacturers should diversify, not continue to make the same shit.[/citation]
thanks in part to how much an ssd costs, that wont happen any time soon.
[citation][nom]GreaseMonkey_62[/nom]It would still be slower and eat more power than a solid state drive. So a tablet would have more storage space but be slower and have a shorter battery life. I'd like to see cheaper larger capacity SDD's instead. Anyone out there working on that?[/citation]
no, because people buy them at the prices they are at now.
and in a tablet enviorment, not a full blown pc, would a hdd really be that much slower? and how fast is the memory on phone/tablet, i would love to know if its ssd quality, or just a bit better than an sd card.
and as for my power, with a hdd, the tablt would be thicker, allowing for a bigger battery.
[citation][nom]hannibal[/nom]No?🙂 Well, actuallu they are allready working on it, but it will take many, many years until ssd are even near hdd in the price. If the pace reamain the same as it has been last years. As long as they manage to make smaller memory chips the price eill continue to fall, but guite soon the price dropping will be slover. 10 nm is near and soon after that there are some serious problems... propably before that.[/citation]
i said it before, but a ssd as they currently stand, will reach 600~gb but i was missing the fact that when cooling is figured out, 3d is a very viable option. instead of just shrinking, we should be looking into faster manufacturing processes, as that's where allot of the cost is eaten up, and than making them 3d as fast as we can make them non today.
3d and speed are the two things that will make the prices plummet.
[citation][nom]amk-aka-Phantom[/nom]Due to the recent HDD price increases, maybe not.P.S. Typed on a tablet or what?[/citation]
thats more the retailer hikeing the price, and not the bare bones cant go lower price.
[citation][nom]DSpider[/nom]It's not a good idea to have mechanical parts in portable devices. Remember those HDD's in iPods? Yeah, remember how they used to fail one by one by the year 2005 ? Compare that to ~400.000 flash writes, for which, say, if you would sync new stuff every day would take you... 365 syncs in a year... times 100 years is 36500 writes. Still not enough.Flash storage is:- more reliable- completely silent- less power hungry (nothing spins, no reading head travelling across the surface) - a lot more suitable for portable devicesSeriously. What are they thinking??[/citation]
they are thinking of the people out there who want larger storage but arent going to pay 3-400$ extra for a 56 more gb of space, and can take care of the device so the hdd wont crap out on them.
[citation][nom]sinfulpotato[/nom]WTF, stop waiting money on mechanical drive research. Throw it at flash please, then we will see prices drop as more manufactures switch, and reliability will increase.[/citation]
no we wont, read above, most of the hard stuff to figure out will be done in the processor area first. if anything you better hope intel doenst have problems on its post ivy bridge processor.
[citation][nom]Razor512[/nom]does not seem to be the best idea for a tablet. due to the spinning platter of a hard drive, the platter becomes a gyroscopebecause of that, it resists changes in angle. which is why you can kill a laptop hard drive by repeatedly and rapidly changing the angle of the drivewhile it is spinning.For a device that will be in your hand, It will be more likely to encounter changes in angle which will damage the drive or put additional stress on it.And I don't see them researching ways to most effectively break the laws of physics.They may be relying on the shortsightedness of most peopleeg they flock to devices with no user replaceable batteries even though those batteries will be the first thing to fail in the device, (same goes for hybrid cars, only difference is the battery is user replaceable, it just cost $7000)[/citation]
correct me if i'm wrong, bit of you make the drive smaller, and slower, doesn't it negate some amount of the gyroscope effect? it should be possible to make a hdd that can be moved while its moveing, and not break, and if they are researching that, better hdds for all.
[citation][nom]syrious1[/nom]Scenario 1: user drops his tablet which has a hddResult: dead tablet, RMA with the fty IF still under warranty----------------------------------------------------Scenario 2: user drops his tablet which has an SSDResult: you tell me. but it still works.Give up on HHD, just let them die, this is a waste of research.[/citation]
user drops tabblet, screen broke, hdd possibly still works.
user drops tablet, screen broke, ssd still works, doesn't matter, have to get a whole new tablet
either way, you are screwed, the only difference is with the ssd, its smaller so is less to back up on a real pc, and you may be more reluctant to do that with a hdd.
[citation][nom]bildo123[/nom]Ya, but people will go "OMG 500GB tablet for the cheapz!" Buy it. Have it slip out of their hand and land on the conference table and have their 1 hour long presentation (with no backup ofc) crash into HDD head. Oops.[/citation]
why are there so many people who bring up morons who cant take care of their 600+$ toys? screen would break probably before hdd anyway, and the person is a moron for not backing that up.
[citation][nom]jsmakkar[/nom]I don't think there a need of that huge data storage that they are developing thin HDD for tablets.[/citation]
correct me if im wrong, but if you buy a movie off itunes, its 1gb+ and you only have 8-16gb, if you delete it for space, do you have to re buy it? because that is one reason for bigger hdds, id rather never use a cloud.
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