Retro PC from 2004-2005

[MrOldMC]

So a day or two ago I posted a thread basically asking for advise on how I should upgrade my PC, and I stated how the holidays are soon to come but that is besides the point. After putting much thought into "Do really need to upgrade my main gaming rig as of the moment?" I came to the conclusion of kinda.... part of the money will go towards my main PC (a little less than half) and then the rest would go towards making the best PC that you could get from 2004-2005. I have constructed a list of parts and I would very much so appreciate any comments suggestions or edits to my list!

Budget: (USD)
Motherboard $70.00
Graphics Card $75.00
Processor $30.00
Case(Full ATX) $70.00
Hard Drive $30.00
Power Supply $50.00
RAM $20.00

Actual Parts:
Motherboard: Asus P4S800 $66.49
Surprisingly Comes with Pentium 4 2.4Ghz, CPU Heatsink, 512MB RAM
Graphics Card: Geforce FX 5950 Ultra 256MB $45.84
Processor: P4 2.4Ghz Comes with motherboard
Case: Apevia X-Sniper 2 (Blue) $62.99
Hard Drive: WD 250GB IDE $25.90
Power Supply: E.V.G.A 500 Watt $40.10
RAM: 2X1GB DRR $11.94 (RAM is not necessary but if money is left purchase can happen)

 

[weilin]

Why are you targeting the 2004-2005 era? For Windows XP? for a museum piece?

The Pentium 4 generation was absolutely terrible, I wouldn't bother investing in something that ancient. If you're insistent on something from that era, look at AMD's lineup from those days. They soundly beat Intel across the board.

If you want something older but still respectable, move the timeframe to 2007 and look for a Core 2 duo/quad. They can still hold their own in modern tasks but still support most of the legacy stuff.

 

[MrOldMC]

Why are you targeting the 2004-2005 era? For Windows XP? for a museum piece?

The Pentium 4 generation was absolutely terrible, I wouldn't bother investing in something that ancient. If you're insistent on something from that era, look at AMD's lineup from those days. They soundly beat Intel across the board.

If you want something older but still respectable, move the timeframe to 2007 and look for a Core 2 duo/quad. They can still hold their own in modern tasks but still support most of the legacy stuff.

I do suppose I did not explain my reasoning for wanting to build a PC from 2004-2005, first off back in the day the Pentium 4 was the cream of the crops, also I still have some unfinished business with an old classmate when he came into class the one day and was bragging to everyone that he had a P4 granted this was 10 or so years ago but still, in addition I am building this PC mainly for retro gaming and in no way shape or form expect it to run/compute modern tasks. Lastly the range of games I will be play on this machine are from 1998-2005, and yes I will be installing Windows XP.

 

[weilin]

If you're focused on Intel only, then yes the Pentium 4 line was the best processor Intel offered. If you're talking about the era, then the AMD Athlon X2 4800+ (codename: Toledo in 90nm socket 939, look for a Nvidia Nforce4 chipset) more or less wins hands down... Both will install Windows XP just fine.

 

[MrOldMC]

If you're focused on Intel only, then yes the Pentium 4 line was the best processor Intel offered. If you're talking about the era, then the AMD Athlon X2 4800+ (codename: Toledo in 90nm) more or less wins hands down... Both will install Windows XP just fine.

Ok thank you that does help with deciding whether or not to stick with the P4 or not but if I were not to change, how does everything else match up and do you think I should go with different parts. And by the way I do know what I am taking about and how to install components on a PC, it is also my part time job to build PC's. So what I am saying is you do not have to dumb this down for me.

 

[MrOldMC]

Just an FYI to everyone I am still accepting/wanting/needing more opinions on the matter, and if you are to respond please input your two cents to more then one of the parts on my list. Thank you!

 

[itmoba]

Why are you targeting the 2004-2005 era? For Windows XP? for a museum piece?

The Pentium 4 generation was absolutely terrible, I wouldn't bother investing in something that ancient. If you're insistent on something from that era, look at AMD's lineup from those days. They soundly beat Intel across the board.

If you want something older but still respectable, move the timeframe to 2007 and look for a Core 2 duo/quad. They can still hold their own in modern tasks but still support most of the legacy stuff.

I do suppose I did not explain my reasoning for wanting to build a PC from 2004-2005, first off back in the day the Pentium 4 was the cream of the crops, also I still have some unfinished business with an old classmate when he came into class the one day and was bragging to everyone that he had a P4 granted this was 10 or so years ago but still, in addition I am building this PC mainly for retro gaming and in no way shape or form expect it to run/compute modern tasks. Lastly the range of games I will be play on this machine are from 1998-2005, and yes I will be installing Windows XP.

Huh, what the heck are you smoking? Intel's Pentium 4 line is considered to be one of their worst chips ever. In fact, AMD was making gaga money whilst Intel continued to try to sell their inferior processor. Intel went from the excellent Pentium 3 to the "craptastic" Petnium 4. It wasn't until Centrino that Intel finally conceded that the Pentium 4 was losing them money and their market share. Heck, people were literally using Centrinos with base adapters so that they could use the laptop CPU with their desktop. When Intel finally caught wind of this, they decided that it was time to give up on the Pentium 4, though it was done in a more clandestine fashion because Intel would never concede the fact that the Pentium 4 was their equivalent of the Windows ME fiasco.

 

[MrOldMC]

Why are you targeting the 2004-2005 era? For Windows XP? for a museum piece?

The Pentium 4 generation was absolutely terrible, I wouldn't bother investing in something that ancient. If you're insistent on something from that era, look at AMD's lineup from those days. They soundly beat Intel across the board.

If you want something older but still respectable, move the timeframe to 2007 and look for a Core 2 duo/quad. They can still hold their own in modern tasks but still support most of the legacy stuff.

I do suppose I did not explain my reasoning for wanting to build a PC from 2004-2005, first off back in the day the Pentium 4 was the cream of the crops, also I still have some unfinished business with an old classmate when he came into class the one day and was bragging to everyone that he had a P4 granted this was 10 or so years ago but still, in addition I am building this PC mainly for retro gaming and in no way shape or form expect it to run/compute modern tasks. Lastly the range of games I will be play on this machine are from 1998-2005, and yes I will be installing Windows XP.

Huh, what the heck are you smoking? Intel's Pentium 4 line is considered to be one of their worst chips ever. In fact, AMD was making gaga money whilst Intel continued to try to sell their inferior processor. Intel went from the excellent Pentium 3 to the "craptastic" Petnium 4. It wasn't until Centrino that Intel finally conceded that the Pentium 4 was losing them money and their market share. Heck, people were literally using Centrinos with base adapters so that they could use the laptop CPU with their desktop. When Intel finally caught wind of this, they decided that it was time to give up on the Pentium 4, though it was done in a more clandestine fashion because Intel would never concede the fact that the Pentium 4 was their equivalent of the Windows ME fiasco.

Ok thank you for you input but you really didn't answer any of the questions I asked, I stated my reasoning for wanting a Pentium 4 and nothing is going to change that now if you would kindly respond to whether or not the other parts I chose BESIDES the P4 are good then you are very welcome to but if you are just going to introduce strong negativity then I will kindly ask you to please do not post again. I am perfectly fine with you telling me your opinion on whether something is good or not but when you go to the extend you did then I really don't care what you have to say. Thank you for you time.

 

[hang-the-9]

That is not the best PC from that era. There are much faster P4 CPUs, they went to over 3 gig in speed, and you'd want more than 2 gig of RAM for decent speed. The P4 systems also should have SATA ports, a newer SATA hard drive (not too large or the motherboard may not see it properly) may be better unless you just want to use IDE for the sake of having an older parts system. The Athlon 64 chip is also better than the P4 CPUs from that time.

If you want the "best" system with components from that time, that 2.4 gig P4 is not the chip to use.

 

[offensive_jerk]

Around that time I think I was using my Socket 754 AMD 64 3000+, probably with an Nvidia 6800 GS AGP. Unless i bought that card a year later or so.

Which games were you planning on playing? Case?

 

[MrOldMC]

That is not the best PC from that era. There are much faster P4 CPUs, they went to over 3 gig in speed, and you'd want more than 2 gig of RAM for decent speed. The P4 systems also should have SATA ports, a newer SATA hard drive (not too large or the motherboard may not see it properly) may be better unless you just want to use IDE for the sake of having an older parts system. The Athlon 64 chip is also better than the P4 CPUs from that time.

If you want the "best" system with components from that time, that 2.4 gig P4 is not the chip to use.

Ok thank you your response it is greatly appreciated I yes I know that a P4 2.4Ghz is not a very powerful chip and in the future I do indeed expect to upgrade it to a much faster 3.20GHz or 3.40GHz and I have some extra RAM laying around. Although I have never seen a P4 socket 478 with SATA or PCIe for that matter. That is besides the point as you probably have seem there has been a lot of recommendations on CPU's but NOTHING on my GPU choice of a Geforce FX 5950 Ultra and whether or not it is a good pick. I appreciate your response and I hope to see GPU feedback soon!

 

[MrOldMC]

Around that time I think I was using my Socket 754 AMD 64 3000+, probably with an Nvidia 6800 GS AGP. Unless i bought that card a year later or so.

Which games were you planning on playing? Case?

Ok thank you for finally giving my an option or an idea of a GPU to buy, I will definitely have a full size ATX motherboard and case, one of the cases I am looking at is from Corsair and it will have plenty of room for even the biggest of GPU's. I am expecting to play games from 1998-2005 so games such as Unreal Tournament gold & 2004, Quake II, Counter strike source, Counter strike 1.6, half life 1&2 games like those.

 

[RememberThe5th]

I can sell you my Pentium P4 3.0 ghz overclockable to 3.5Ghz with HT its 520J. And i have 2GB ram of ddr2 which is pretty expensive nowdays.

 

[MrOldMC]

I can sell you my Pentium P4 3.0 ghz overclockable to 3.5Ghz with HT its 520J. And i have 2GB ram of ddr2 which is pretty expensive nowdays.

Ok thank you for the offer I will get back to you on my decision once I figure everything else out.

 

[hang-the-9]

That is not the best PC from that era. There are much faster P4 CPUs, they went to over 3 gig in speed, and you'd want more than 2 gig of RAM for decent speed. The P4 systems also should have SATA ports, a newer SATA hard drive (not too large or the motherboard may not see it properly) may be better unless you just want to use IDE for the sake of having an older parts system. The Athlon 64 chip is also better than the P4 CPUs from that time.

If you want the "best" system with components from that time, that 2.4 gig P4 is not the chip to use.

Ok thank you your response it is greatly appreciated I yes I know that a P4 2.4Ghz is not a very powerful chip and in the future I do indeed expect to upgrade it to a much faster 3.20GHz or 3.40GHz and I have some extra RAM laying around. Although I have never seen a P4 socket 478 with SATA or PCIe for that matter. That is besides the point as you probably have seem there has been a lot of recommendations on CPU's but NOTHING on my GPU choice of a Geforce FX 5950 Ultra and whether or not it is a good pick. I appreciate your response and I hope to see GPU feedback soon!

Many newer P4 systems had PCIe and SATA ports, some even ran on DDR2 I think. For the video card, I think the one you picked is the fastest AGP card you can get so that is probably why no one said anything about it.

P4 motherboard, PCIe x16 slot, SATA ports.

 

[RememberThe5th]

I like this old PC's to overclock to maximum ever more with amd CPU's (because they are hard to fry if you put addidional cooling ).

 

[MrOldMC]

That is not the best PC from that era. There are much faster P4 CPUs, they went to over 3 gig in speed, and you'd want more than 2 gig of RAM for decent speed. The P4 systems also should have SATA ports, a newer SATA hard drive (not too large or the motherboard may not see it properly) may be better unless you just want to use IDE for the sake of having an older parts system. The Athlon 64 chip is also better than the P4 CPUs from that time.

If you want the "best" system with components from that time, that 2.4 gig P4 is not the chip to use.

Ok thank you your response it is greatly appreciated I yes I know that a P4 2.4Ghz is not a very powerful chip and in the future I do indeed expect to upgrade it to a much faster 3.20GHz or 3.40GHz and I have some extra RAM laying around. Although I have never seen a P4 socket 478 with SATA or PCIe for that matter. That is besides the point as you probably have seem there has been a lot of recommendations on CPU's but NOTHING on my GPU choice of a Geforce FX 5950 Ultra and whether or not it is a good pick. I appreciate your response and I hope to see GPU feedback soon!

Many newer P4 systems had PCIe and SATA ports, some even ran on DDR2 I think. For the video card, I think the one you picked is the fastest AGP card you can get so that is probably why no one said anything about it.

P4 motherboard, PCIe x16 slot, SATA ports.

So I stand corrected, which is always welcome I was not aware that Intel tried to keep the Pentium line going that long. Ok and thank you for your input on the Graphics Card I think I have the systems parts now figured out and selected.

 

[capt_taco]

If you are sticking with that original Asus motherboard, probably the best GPU you can get for an AGP 4X/8X slot is the HD 4670, which was among the last cards made with an AGP version and is going to be several tiers above either of the cards suggested here so far. (for reference: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html)

Those are a bit difficult to find though, so next best would be the HD 4650 DDR3 version, which are much more plentiful and honestly just as good considering the limited power of the CPU.

Apparently, they're still even making the 4650 AGP new, go figure:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161308

If you get a different motherboard and go the PCIe x16 route, you have a lot more GPU options, but be careful, as a lot of the newer ones have problems working with older chipsets. Definitely anything beyond Radeon HD 5xxx or Nvidia 8xxx I would thoroughly investigate before buying.

In any event, opening it up to PCIe x16 doesn't really make a lick of difference performance-wise, as even a low-mid tier modern video card would be horribly bottlenecked by the single-core CPU.

 

[MrOldMC]

If you are sticking with that original Asus motherboard, probably the best GPU you can get for an AGP 4X/8X slot is the HD 4670, which was among the last cards made with an AGP version and is going to be several tiers above either of the cards suggested here so far. (for reference: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html)

Those are a bit difficult to find though, so next best would be the HD 4650 DDR3 version, which are much more plentiful and honestly just as good considering the limited power of the CPU.

Apparently, they're still even making the 4650 AGP new, go figure:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161308

If you get a different motherboard and go the PCIe x16 route, you have a lot more GPU options, but be careful, as a lot of the newer ones have problems working with older chipsets. Definitely anything beyond Radeon HD 5xxx or Nvidia 8xxx I would thoroughly investigate before buying.

In any event, opening it up to PCIe x16 doesn't really make a lick of difference performance-wise, as even a low-mid tier modern video card would be horribly bottlenecked by the single-core CPU.

Ok wow that helps out a lot! I am most likely going to stick with the Asus motherboard and if I wouldn't I would still honestly want to go the AGP route because I feel once I start to getting into Quad cores and PCIe x16 that is when the PC turns from a solid PC from the early 2000's/high end retro PC to a very low end modern PC. Even the LGA 775 with the Pentium D's I start to consider to be pushing it. Lastly I do know about the Radeon HD 4670 but new or even used is extremely expensive, and just for future reference the Asus P4S800 motherboard is AGP 3.0/APG 8X 1.5V

 

[capt_taco]

If those cards are a bit much for your budget (and they probably are for a machine like this), you can slap an HD 3650 AGP version in there for about half the price without giving up too much.

One thing with these AGP cards is that it IS to your advantage to get one of the newer HD 3xxx or 4xxx series if you can. Those are the models that came out in 2008 or so, primarily as PCIe x16 cards, and well after the decline of AGP slots, but some manufacturers made retrofitted versions for people with AGP machines. The reason they're better is not so much performance but compatibility. If you go back further, into the cards from the early 2000s, many of them only supported up to DirectX 9, and therefore some games released in the mid-to-late decade just wouldn't work because they required DX10. If I recall, there were also some shading features that could break a game if the card did not support it. So going too far back in time for the GPU risks those kinds of issues.

I agree, once you get into LGA775, you're no longer talking about a "retro" machine, more like just a crappy PC. Same with the IDE hard drive. There was a definite generation break there. Maybe not to everyone, but I can sure see it.

By the way, the flashy modern case for this kind of PC is an awesome touch.

The only thing that's a shame about this build is that the motherboard doesn't have a native FDD connector so you could put a 3.5" floppy drive in there. I know they make USB versions, but it's just not the same.

 

[MrOldMC]

If those cards are a bit much for your budget (and they probably are for a machine like this), you can slap an HD 3650 AGP version in there for about half the price without giving up too much.

One thing with these AGP cards is that it IS to your advantage to get one of the newer HD 3xxx or 4xxx series if you can. Those are the models that came out in 2008 or so, primarily as PCIe x16 cards, and well after the decline of AGP slots, but some manufacturers made retrofitted versions for people with AGP machines. The reason they're better is not so much performance but compatibility. If you go back further, into the cards from the early 2000s, many of them only supported up to DirectX 9, and therefore some games released in the mid-to-late decade just wouldn't work because they required DX10. If I recall, there were also some shading features that could break a game if the card did not support it. So going too far back in time for the GPU risks those kinds of issues.

I agree, once you get into LGA775, you're no longer talking about a "retro" machine, more like just a crappy PC. Same with the IDE hard drive. There was a definite generation break there. Maybe not to everyone, but I can sure see it.

By the way, the flashy modern case for this kind of PC is an awesome touch.

The only thing that's a shame about this build is that the motherboard doesn't have a native FDD connector so you could put a 3.5" floppy drive in there. I know they make USB versions, but it's just not the same.

Alright I like it someone who shares the same interests, about the motherboard I do agree with you about the floppy drive but I do believe the board has a FDD connector it should be at the bottom right hand corner of the board by the power, reset, and other case prongs, and then it is for some reason turned 90 degrees. Also just wondering since the card that I was originally looking at which was a Geforce FX 5950 Ultra is now unlisted I found a Geforce 7800 GS AGP for a good price and I was wondering how it would hold up.

 

[michajc]

i would buy an 8600gt just for the nostalgia factor
that gpu made me the addict that i am today
i still have the box in my room, the one with the wolf and green "eye mask"(i dont know the english word) omg it brings me so many memories, i may download MU online to see if i remember my account and then play some habbo hotel or lineage 2 latter

 

[MrOldMC]

i would buy an 8600gt just for the nostalgia factor
that gpu made me the addict that i am today
i still have the box in my room, the one with the wolf and green "eye mask"(i dont know the english word) omg it brings me so many memories, i may download MU online to see if i remember my account and then play some habbo hotel or lineage 2 latter

Thank you for your input although since I am trying to go the more retro route PCIe falls into the category of why not just build a modern PC. AGP 8x and socket 478 are what I am aiming for.

 

[capt_taco]

I think the GeForce 7xxx series only supports up to DirectX 9, so depending on what games you like, you could be limited. The 8xxx series was the first with DX10, and supposedly they made the GeForce 8400 and 8600 in AGP versions, but I sure don't see any for sale.

Honestly, that may not be a big deal depending on the kind of games you like to play. If you're only going to be playing things from the 1990s and early 2000s, you'll be fine with a DX9 card. I used to like to push my 2003-era machine to see what modern games I could get it to run, so I ended up with a 4650 (which were actually less expensive back then). It was only in 2008 or 2009 or so that I started seeing games that just flat-out wouldn't work without DX10.

You're right about that motherboard having an FDD slot, I completely missed it. But going back into the archives again, the motherboards with Intel 865PE and 865G chipsets were the top-of-the-line ones for Socket 478. They got much better RAM performance and were the first to include SATA support, although plenty also had IDE and FDD. This article gives a pretty nice comparison between them and the SiS model you're looking at:

http://techreport.com/review/5158/intel-865pe-and-865g-chipsets

Really with a machine this old though, splitting hairs over performance is not going to make a huge difference. As long as you've got something to be proud of and enjoy doing it, that's a win.