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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Just a quick survey to help me with the development of my roguelike.

Reply to the group or to my email (see my sig). Results will be published in
this group. I'll ask the same questions at some other groups as well, if you
use those groups too, please don't reply more than once.

1. Which screen resolution do you use?

2. Do you prefer to play roguelikes in fullscreen or windowed mode? If you
prefer windowed mode, how big should the window be?

3. Do you have MS Windows installed on any of your PCs?

4. Probably a stupid question, but is your CPU speed over 200MHz?

5. Which would you prefer in a roguelike? (reasons for your answers are
welcome)
a) in-depth fixed quests with only one or two quests that you actually have
to complete to win the game - the rest are optional.
b) in-depth fixed quests with one leading to another - ongoing storyline
throughout the game, but usually no way to skip some quests.
c) basic quests but mostly randomly generated with one or two fixed main
quests that you have to complete - others are optional
d) all quests are random including the main quest
e) only one fixed quest, no other quests
f) only one random quest, no other quests - different task each time you
play
g) a randomly chosen quest from a set of fixed quests
h) a choice of storylines/quests offered to the player

6. Do you like to have a lot of control over your game? In the sense of:
changing the user interface layout, inventory style, greeting message,
automatic door opening, redefining keys, etc.

--
Kostatus
kostatus001 at ihug co nz
WoT: http://www.woodsoftorbin.on.to/
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Kostatus wrote:
> Just a quick survey to help me with the development of my roguelike.
>
> 1. Which screen resolution do you use?

80X25

> 2. Do you prefer to play roguelikes in fullscreen or windowed mode? If you
> prefer windowed mode, how big should the window be?

fullscreen ;-)

> 3. Do you have MS Windows installed on any of your PCs?

kind of (wine), but for that I would have to start my X-server and I
need some good reasoons for that.

> 4. Probably a stupid question, but is your CPU speed over 200MHz?

unfortunately yes (stupid thing either idles or overheats).

> 5. Which would you prefer in a roguelike? (reasons for your answers are
> welcome)
> a) in-depth fixed quests with only one or two quests that you actually have
> to complete to win the game - the rest are optional.

ITYM something like Crawl or Nethack does? Sounds like the best solution
to me in terms of replay value.

> b) in-depth fixed quests with one leading to another - ongoing storyline
> throughout the game, but usually no way to skip some quests.

The problem with storyline is that once you've seen it it becomes quite
boring. Roguelikes are IMHO designed to keep you playing for years, so
you will see the first part of the storyline a few 100 times before you
reach the endgame.

> c) basic quests but mostly randomly generated with one or two fixed main
> quests that you have to complete - others are optional
> g) a randomly chosen quest from a set of fixed quests
> h) a choice of storylines/quests offered to the player

Depends on the setting of your game. If it has some kind of mercenary
theme random quests are fine, but IMHO it's not a roguelike anymore,
although it can still be a great game. Check Gearhead and Omega for such
character-development-heavy games.

> d) all quests are random including the main quest

Here you will have to elaborate on the 'randomness' of the main quest.
Randomizing the boss character or the uber-artifact at the end of the
game doesn't add much to it.

> 6. Do you like to have a lot of control over your game? In the sense of:
> changing the user interface layout, inventory style, greeting message,
> automatic door opening, redefining keys, etc.

As long as you provide me with hjkl movement and an 80X25 screen
everything is fine interface-wise.

Lars
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Kostatus .-- .-. --- - . ---...

> 1. Which screen resolution do you use?

1024x768

> 2. Do you prefer to play roguelikes in fullscreen or windowed mode? If you
> prefer windowed mode, how big should the window be?

Windowed, as fullscreen is too big, and I can watch TV during playing.


> 3. Do you have MS Windows installed on any of your PCs?

Yes, five windows'es on three PCs 🙂.


> 4. Probably a stupid question, but is your CPU speed over 200MHz?

No, yes, yes.


> 5. Which would you prefer in a roguelike? (reasons for your answers are
> welcome)
> e) only one fixed quest, no other quests

It is boring to do the same quests over and over.


> 6. Do you like to have a lot of control over your game? In the sense of:
> changing the user interface layout, inventory style, greeting message,
> automatic door opening, redefining keys, etc.

Sure. More control is always more. ;-)

--
Loonie
---------------------------------------
Respondit Pilatus quod scripsi scripsi.
http://www.crawl.iconrate.net/traps.php
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

On Fri, 14 May 2004 08:14:59 +0000 (UTC), Kostatus wrote:

>1. Which screen resolution do you use?

1024x768

>2. Do you prefer to play roguelikes in fullscreen or windowed mode? If you
>prefer windowed mode, how big should the window be?

windowed

>3. Do you have MS Windows installed on any of your PCs?

that's the one

>4. Probably a stupid question, but is your CPU speed over 200MHz?

yehyeh

>5. Which would you prefer in a roguelike? (reasons for your answers are
>welcome)

> e) only one fixed quest, no other quests
> f) only one random quest, no other quests - different task each time you
>play
> h) a choice of storylines/quests offered to the player

E sounds good, though I wouldn't mind seeing totally different
missions. Then I'd like to choose them to avoid rerolling, so h with
one main quest as a second.

>6. Do you like to have a lot of control over your game? In the sense of:
>changing the user interface layout, inventory style, greeting message,
>automatic door opening, redefining keys, etc.

Key bindings and automatic door opening are a must. Some way to have
at least 4 last lines of text(if it has text) on the screen would be
good. I hope the other areas can't be screwed up too badly.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Kostatus <to.get.my.email@see.bottom.of.this.post> wrote:
> Just a quick survey to help me with the development of my roguelike.
>
> 1. Which screen resolution do you use?

80x25 ( Occasionally, 80x24 working terminal, due to GNU screen. )

> 2. Do you prefer to play roguelikes in fullscreen or windowed mode? If you
> prefer windowed mode, how big should the window be?

Does rxvt count as windowed mode? 😉

If I was going to play with tiles (big *if*), I would prefer a 730x600
window (I tend to keep a bar of dockapps running under X).

> 3. Do you have MS Windows installed on any of your PCs?

Technically, yes. Do I play roguelikes on that machine? Not
frequently.

> 4. Probably a stupid question, but is your CPU speed over 200MHz?

My roguelike machine is a Pentium MMX 166Mhz laptop with 96M of memory.

> 5. Which would you prefer in a roguelike? (reasons for your answers are
> welcome)
>
> a) in-depth fixed quests with only one or two quests that you actually have
> to complete to win the game - the rest are optional.
> b) in-depth fixed quests with one leading to another - ongoing storyline
> throughout the game, but usually no way to skip some quests.
> c) basic quests but mostly randomly generated with one or two fixed main
> quests that you have to complete - others are optional
> d) all quests are random including the main quest
> e) only one fixed quest, no other quests
> f) only one random quest, no other quests - different task each time you
> play
> g) a randomly chosen quest from a set of fixed quests
> h) a choice of storylines/quests offered to the player

C & H :

The problem with random quests is that they are hard to do right.

If the quests are going to be random, don't do a stupid "fetch
me $RANDOM_ITEM". At the very least, try riddles for the $RANDOM_ITEM
to fetch.

Scavenger-hunts may be fun (I desire 3 unique things that are blue, for
example).

The storyline/quest idea is also nice (I'm assuming this would be
somewhat like ADOM then), with different quests/choices for different
alignments.

> 6. Do you like to have a lot of control over your game? In the sense of:
> changing the user interface layout, inventory style, greeting message,
> automatic door opening, redefining keys, etc.

I would prefer it if the default keybindings at least resembled some
other popular roguelike. A nifty idea would be to have the keybindings
configurable to different roguelike styles -- say, the choice between an
Angband layout and a Nethack layout. ( Its 3:18am in the morning as I
type this, so if this doesn't work, please ignore. )

I *won't* play a roguelike if I don't have the ability for HJKLYUBN
direction keys.

Being able to color certain strings for inventory, messages, etc, is
nice. For example, being able to configure the roguelike so that all
"blessed" items are in bold white, and all cursed items are in dull red.


The questions you should have asked:

7. What else do you want in a roguelike?

a) Must run on OpenBSD. Crashing every 10 minutes is not running.
[ Crawl seems to be guilty of this lately. ]

b) Speaking of crashing, the roguelike must have the ability to recover
from a crash. Nethack does it nicely. If the roguelike doesn't
have the ability to recover from a crash, I will hunt you down and
kill you when I lose a 40-hour old character due to a blackout.

c) Travel command (nethack's '_' works well, except for water).

d) Some way of making player hitpoint loss obvious would be nice --
Damned if I know how I do it, but I tend to end up ignoring my
hitpoints and not noticing that $BIG_SCARY_MONSTER is dropping my
HP by a 3rd each hit.

e) Objects should interact with each other -- If I dip my longsword in
a potion of healing, something should happen. I should be able to
put rings on pets, and remove those rings later (assuming they have
fingers). Perhaps some pets wouldn't like the attempt, but heck, I
should be able to try.

f) I've been playing a lot of doom legacy lately, and I realized
something: I take preverse pleasure in lining up creatures so that
attacks are misdirected -- resulting in, say, a baron of hell
attacking a heavy weapons guy instead of me. I want to see
roguelikes with this ability. [ OT: I've also been noticing that
I "pillar-dance" in doom. 😉 ]

g) I shouldn't have to spoil myself rotten to have a reasonable
( relative to roguelikes, of course) chance of winning the game.

h) The world should be interesting. It should be self-referencing and
intertwined (assuming a large world). Although this is more for
novels, Patricia Wrede had a set of world-building questions that
are probably worth reading -- Google's I'm Feeling Lucky link gives
me: http://www.io.com/~eighner/world_builder/world_builder_index.html


8. What other advice do you have?

a) Play all the other roguelikes, just to get an idea.

b) Start small.

c) Release early and release often.

d) Be unique.

Jesse Meyer

--
Want to listen to new music?
Why don't you look at iRATE? icq: 34583382
http://irate.sourceforge.net/ msn: dasunt@hotmail.guess
jabber: dasunt@theoretic.com
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

On Fri, 14 May 2004 08:14:59 +0000 (UTC), in a fit of madness Kostatus
<to.get.my.email@see.bottom.of.this.post> declared:

>Just a quick survey to help me with the development of my roguelike.

>1. Which screen resolution do you use?

800x600

>2. Do you prefer to play roguelikes in fullscreen or windowed mode? If you
>prefer windowed mode, how big should the window be?

Depends on the roguelike. I play Crawl in a small window, *bands in a
full screen.

>3. Do you have MS Windows installed on any of your PCs?

Yes.

>4. Probably a stupid question, but is your CPU speed over 200MHz?

No.

>5. Which would you prefer in a roguelike? (reasons for your answers are
>welcome)
> a) in-depth fixed quests with only one or two quests that you actually have
>to complete to win the game - the rest are optional.
> b) in-depth fixed quests with one leading to another - ongoing storyline
>throughout the game, but usually no way to skip some quests.
> c) basic quests but mostly randomly generated with one or two fixed main
>quests that you have to complete - others are optional
> d) all quests are random including the main quest
> e) only one fixed quest, no other quests
> f) only one random quest, no other quests - different task each time you
>play
> g) a randomly chosen quest from a set of fixed quests
> h) a choice of storylines/quests offered to the player

I think any of these is workable, except for (b), which would lead to a
sense of linear repetition over multiple games.

>6. Do you like to have a lot of control over your game? In the sense of:
>changing the user interface layout, inventory style, greeting message,
>automatic door opening, redefining keys, etc.

Nice to allow lots of bells and whistles in the form of UI options, but
this should wait until you have a playable game. I don't want to tweak
the UI to perfection and then just wander around a screen.

--
R. Dan Henry
danhenry@inreach.com
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

On Sat, 15 May 2004 10:10:23 -0700, in a fit of madness R Dan Henry
<danhenry@inreach.com> declared:

>
>Depends on the roguelike. I play Crawl in a small window, *bands in a
>full screen.

Probably should have specified that Crawl is played in a DOS window.
*bands are also DOS, but played in full screen.

--
R. Dan Henry
danhenry@inreach.com
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Kostatus wrote:
| Just a quick survey to help me with the development of my roguelike.
|
| Reply to the group or to my email (see my sig). Results will be
published in
| this group. I'll ask the same questions at some other groups as well,
if you
| use those groups too, please don't reply more than once.
|
| 1. Which screen resolution do you use?
|

On my Windows machine, 1024x768. On my Linux machine, 800x600.

| 2. Do you prefer to play roguelikes in fullscreen or windowed mode?
If you
| prefer windowed mode, how big should the window be?
|

I prefer to play roguelikes in text mode, ASCII graphics, in a normal
terminal outside of X. Graphical versions just aren't the same.

| 3. Do you have MS Windows installed on any of your PCs?
|

Yes

| 4. Probably a stupid question, but is your CPU speed over 200MHz?
|

Windows machine: 2.8 GHz, Linux machine: 450 MHz

| 5. Which would you prefer in a roguelike? (reasons for your answers are
| welcome)
| a) in-depth fixed quests with only one or two quests that you
actually have
| to complete to win the game - the rest are optional.
| b) in-depth fixed quests with one leading to another - ongoing
storyline
| throughout the game, but usually no way to skip some quests.
| c) basic quests but mostly randomly generated with one or two fixed
main
| quests that you have to complete - others are optional
| d) all quests are random including the main quest
| e) only one fixed quest, no other quests
| f) only one random quest, no other quests - different task each time
you
| play
| g) a randomly chosen quest from a set of fixed quests
| h) a choice of storylines/quests offered to the player
|

D

| 6. Do you like to have a lot of control over your game? In the sense of:
| changing the user interface layout, inventory style, greeting message,
| automatic door opening, redefining keys, etc.
|

I've never heard of that, but that would be a good idea.

- --

With open-source hobby development, such as with roguelikes, there is no
profit involved (except for distributors who sell it on CD). Thus you
should develop for yourself and what you want and not try to please
everyone else. (Unlike commercial software where you have to please the
most people in order to sell.)

- --
- -core_dump
Registered Linux User #334094 <http://counter.li.org>

- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GG/CS/CC d- s-:+ a--- C++ UL+ P L++++ E--- W++(--) N+++ o? K? w(--)
O? M-(--) V? PS+(---) PE(++) Y++ PGP++ t+ 5? X+ R tv b+ DI+ D+(---) G e h!
r-- y--
- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Segmentation fault (core dumped)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFApksUvetqfsJjmf8RAkV4AJ9M0rQ50BWhFMOefcM6W1uyk4PUBgCcD8gh
U2JgSfmFhbG0nYX5ZNk/F1M=
=WA0P
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Kostatus posted to rec.games.roguelike.misc on 5/14/2004:
>1. Which screen resolution do you use?
1024x768

>2. Do you prefer to play roguelikes in fullscreen or windowed mode?
>If you prefer windowed mode, how big should the window be?
I use 80x25 console with 20pt font for Crawl - full screen for *bands

>3. Do you have MS Windows installed on any of your PCs?
Yes

>4. Probably a stupid question, but is your CPU speed over 200MHz?
yes

>5. Which would you prefer in a roguelike? (reasons for your answers
>are welcome)
I have to agree with R Dan Henry. b limits replayability.

>6. Do you like to have a lot of control over your game? In the sense
>of: changing the user interface layout, inventory style, greeting
>message, automatic door opening, redefining keys, etc.
Yes, yes, no, yes, absolutely.
--
-- Mark Engle (remove the beasts to email)
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Kostatus <to.get.my.email@see.bottom.of.this.post> growled:

> Just a quick survey to help me with the development of my
> roguelike.

> 1. Which screen resolution do you use?

Huh? I play in a DOS fullscreen. What resolution does that have?
It's 80*43 characters, 14" screen.

> 2. Do you prefer to play roguelikes in fullscreen or windowed
> mode? If you prefer windowed mode, how big should the window be?

Windowed is ok for those games that I'm not used to playing in just
plain DOS (stick that in a window and it looks weird). My prefered
font-size in DOS windows is 10*6, I think it might be a 640*480
resolution (the whole screen).

> 3. Do you have MS Windows installed on any of your PCs?

Eek! Does that matter? I'd not use it to play a roguelike, if that's
what you mean.

> 4. Probably a stupid question, but is your CPU speed over 200MHz?

Unfortunately, yes. I want my 486DX4-100 back!

> 5. Which would you prefer in a roguelike? (reasons for your
> answers are welcome)

> a) in-depth fixed quests with only one or two quests that you
> actually have to complete to win the game - the rest are
> optional.

Yes. (Crawl has all those branches that you don't _have_ to visit, I
like that.)

> b) in-depth fixed quests with one leading to another - ongoing
> storyline throughout the game, but usually no way to skip some
> quests.

And usually no way to get to some other quests once you chose a
path? No thanks. (Adom has that, and I don't like it.)

Reasons for a) and b): I like to go where I want, when I want. I
like freedom.

> c) basic quests but mostly randomly generated with one or two
> fixed main quests that you have to complete -others are optional

Dunno what to make of 'random quests'. What are they like?

> d) all quests are random including the main quest

How does that work?

> e) only one fixed quest, no other quests

Should be a little boring after a while.

I don't think roguelikes are all about quest. You get that in other
RPGs, and they're usually played once and then forgotten. Exception:
Ultima 7 I, that I dig out now and again, despite linear quest, and
always the same plot-lines. It's just fun running around there
again, but compared to a roguelike, which has hardly any plot, I've
almost never played it at all. Maybe a handful of times compared to
>2000. Ok, in U7 the game isn't over just because your character
just got killed. But still, I've finished U7 maybe 3 or 4 times, and
won a roguelike (Nethack, Slash'EM and Crawl wins put together) 28
times, and am still playing Crawl.

In my estimation the re-play value in roguelikes also lies in the
random dungeon levels (please none that vanish as soon as you leave
them as in Angband, though) but more importantly the difficulty, and
the diversity in roles/races. You can try various different
approaches to solving the same problem. Making that possible by
providing diverse options is the secret, IMO. Crawl does that
excellently. Add Nethack's "silly things to do with stuff", to
provide even more paths to go (and please, don't let the endgame get
too easy, but make the early game not unfairly difficult), and
you've got a winner.

Oh, and don't make the game unwinnable through some choice the
character makes. If he likes to switch from good to chaotic, let
him, and give him one or more paths to complete the game that way -
possibly more difficult (as general punishment from the gods or
something), but possible. (I loathe Nethack's alignment system, and
it isn't even consistent.)

> f) only one random quest, no other quests - different task each
> time you play

?

Different tasks available within each game. Let that be decided in
the game, not before you start.

> g) a randomly chosen quest from a set of fixed quests

Could get repetitive. Nethack's Role Quests get boring once you've
done one one or more times.

> h) a choice of storylines/quests offered to the player

To chose from with no option to change your mind afterwards?
Preferably not. (See Nethack alignment...)

> 6. Do you like to have a lot of control over your game? In the
> sense of: changing the user interface layout, inventory style,
> greeting message, automatic door opening, redefining keys, etc.

_Yes!_ (So I can turn auto-door-opening and those counter-intuitive
hjkl keys off, and customize all the rest as well.)

Sticky inventory letters are also a good idea, better yet, pre-set
letters for specific items, so that for example the starting cloak
is on 'V' where I want it, right from the beginning of the game.
Have the options be defined in an init.txt or similar, not within
the game where you have to change them again every new game.

--
Tina the Stinger - a Priest of the Ruffled Needy Glimmer
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

> /me grins evilly. If you're fast enough, rocket launchers make that
> great fun. I remember making the juxtaposed Spider Daemon and the Cyber=20
> Daemon in ... Doom 2 (?) angry at each other. The Cyber Daemon always=20
> won, but he was quite beaten up by then.

Each on its own platform, connected by a narrow "bridge"?

Yep, that was Doom II.

Spider Daemons + Arachnotrons are fun as well.

As well as Arachnotrons + Anything else. 😉

Its amazing -- that game is roughly a decade old and is still fun to
play (although the Doom Legacy graphics updates are nice).

Jesse Meyer

--
Want to listen to new music?
Why don't you look at iRATE? icq: 34583382
http://irate.sourceforge.net/ msn: dasunt@hotmail.guess
jabber: dasunt@theoretic.com
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

On 14-May-04 09:14:59, Kostatus said:

>1. Which screen resolution do you use?

Normally 720x550, but I run programs on their own screens in other
resolutions if they look better that way. I believe I run rogulikes in
lower resolutions than this.

>2. Do you prefer to play roguelikes in fullscreen or windowed mode? If you
>prefer windowed mode, how big should the window be?

Fullscreen, but I choose the size of the screen so that it looks nice
and then set things up so that that program opens on its own screen in
that resolution. Down as low as 320x200 if necessary, I suppose. I
_can_ run 1024x768, but the 24Hz refresh hurts my eyes.

>3. Do you have MS Windows installed on any of your PCs?

No. And I don't typically play roguelikes on a PC at all.

>4. Probably a stupid question, but is your CPU speed over 200MHz?

No. 50 MHz. (on my main machine)

>5. Which would you prefer in a roguelike? (reasons for your answers are
>welcome)
> a) in-depth fixed quests with only one or two quests that you actually have
>to complete to win the game - the rest are optional.
> b) in-depth fixed quests with one leading to another - ongoing storyline
>throughout the game, but usually no way to skip some quests.
> c) basic quests but mostly randomly generated with one or two fixed main
>quests that you have to complete - others are optional
> d) all quests are random including the main quest
> e) only one fixed quest, no other quests
> f) only one random quest, no other quests - different task each time you
>play
> g) a randomly chosen quest from a set of fixed quests
> h) a choice of storylines/quests offered to the player

I guess (a). I liked Might and Magic II, flawed though it was, because
there was any amount of stuff you _could_ do, but very little you
_had_ to do. Though there were random quests in the mix as well, I
think.

>6. Do you like to have a lot of control over your game? In the sense of:
>changing the user interface layout, inventory style, greeting message,
>automatic door opening, redefining keys, etc.

Yes. But I can live without this kind of thing.

--
Adam Atkinson (ghira@mistral.co.uk)
I am never forget the day I first meet great Lobachevsky. In one
word he told me secret of success in mathematics: Plagiarise.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

On Sat, 15 May 2004 04:36:40 GMT, Christopher Nehren wrote:

....

>> 1. Which screen resolution do you use?
>
> Text mode or GUI? Which system?

Sorry I didn't clarify - I meant graphics.

> I use everything from 80x25 to 132x25
> for text mode and 1280x1024 for GUI. I'm even known to get bored and
> fiddle around with 800x600 in text mode. If I ever unlazy myself, I'll
> get 80x60 or something on my OpenBSD's text console.
>

....

>
>> 4. Probably a stupid question, but is your CPU speed over 200MHz?
>
> Which?

Doesn't really matter, just trying to get a vague idea of how many people
have these old machines around. So that I can decide whether I should
keep my game low-resourse or whether to do something more adventurous and
resource-draining (like better line of sight for monsters). (I think for
now I'll keep it low-resource as many people seem to like roguelikes to be
low-resource).

> My three _active_ systems are above or equal to that speed, yes;
> but as soon as I acquire my new hard disk, I'll be resurrecting either
> a P150 or a 486 with a disk that's in my 233, maybe both if I'm feeling
> adventurous (/me hugs the BSD ccd driver).
>

....

>
> Basically, I want a Morrowind-esque roguelike, with dozens and dozens
> of _thousands_ of words of story just in books that you find. Something
> like Uru would be great, too. Playing an archaeologist is extremely
> fun. If you could work in random quests in addition to all of that,
> splendid.

Morrowind is a great game, I've been getting a lot of "inspiration" from
it, nothing Morrowindish yet implemented though. However, the depth of the
storyline like in Morrowind (especially the books) would be an unrealistic
goal for me - as I'm more of a programmer than a creative writer, and I
find no fun in writing up storylines when I could be coding instead.

>
> I guess that the closest letters for my answer would be bit of 'a', 'b',
> and 'h'. A game world that changes based upon my actions is something
> that I'll never ever want to stop playing. Interactive and dynamic
> political and economic systems would make me drool like a certain
> popular nuclear safety technician.

Actually something which I thought of doing at later stages (assuming I
ever get there) - at least at a very basic level.

....



--
Kostatus - kostatus001 at ihug co nz
WoT: http://www.woodsoftorbin.on.to/
L:VC++ E+ T+ !R P--- D+ G- F:ADoM/Moria RL+ RLA++ W:F
Q++(+) AI++ GFX++ !SFX RN+++ PO+ Hp++ Re+ S- KG+ c- ?OS
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Christopher Nehren .-- .-. --- - . ---...

> I've been dying
> for a roguelike with a story more detailed than those of adult movies,
> with more intrigue than "go get this item" or "kill this evil monster"
> or an amalgamation of the two.

Try ToME then, it's not bad quests IMO, however is way too long overall.


> Basically, I want a Morrowind-esque roguelike, with dozens and dozens
> of _thousands_ of words of story just in books that you find.

IMO it's rather not possible in freeware game, and I was surprised to find
it in Morrowind also, as normally game developers don't bother with such
"intelligent" stuff and take it easy. Great game.

--
Loonie
---------------------------------------
Respondit Pilatus quod scripsi scripsi.
http://www.crawl.iconrate.net/traps.php
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Kostatus .-- .-. --- - . ---...

> Morrowind is a great game, I've been getting a lot of "inspiration" from
> it, nothing Morrowindish yet implemented though. However, the depth of
> the storyline like in Morrowind (especially the books) would be an
> unrealistic goal for me - as I'm more of a programmer than a creative
> writer, and I find no fun in writing up storylines when I could be
> coding instead.

I've got an idea, There are ~RPG games that are based on mailing list,
with well defined world, story, characters and such. Everybody controlls
one or more characters, and decides (in collaboration with others) what
they do and what's the storyline. It lasts for years in RL. So you could
perhaps use the stories written in such games with permission of authors
in you game, that would not require a writing skills from you, but instead
you would have perhaps to modify the world to fit the stories or maybe
even not. I was going to play one of those, but resigned as too much time
would be spend for literacy I prefer to spend in other ways. :)

I found a link to one:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=x-men+group😛l.rec.gry.rpg&hl=en&lr=&ie=U
TF-8&group=pl.rec.gry.rpg&safe=off&selm=a1gc3t%241nv%241%40absinth.dialog.n
et.pl&rnum=1

--
Loonie
---------------------------------------
Respondit Pilatus quod scripsi scripsi.
http://www.crawl.iconrate.net/traps.php
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Jesse Meyer .-- .-. --- - . ---...

> b) Speaking of crashing, the roguelike must have the ability to recover
> from a crash. Nethack does it nicely. If the roguelike doesn't
> have the ability to recover from a crash, I will hunt you down and
> kill you when I lose a 40-hour old character due to a blackout.

Saving at beginning of every level in separate file seems to work nice in
Crawl considering crashes - you will not lose your chara nor items from any
dungeon level.


> d) Some way of making player hitpoint loss obvious would be nice --
> Damned if I know how I do it, but I tend to end up ignoring my
> hitpoints and not noticing that $BIG_SCARY_MONSTER is dropping my
> HP by a 3rd each hit.

PC speaker alert would work fine IMO, however I would prefer some confirm
("Your character is at 10% HP! Hit 'C' to continue...") message for
critical HP, as it's sometimes possible to die just by hitting too many
keys at once when running or when PC *have* to read something from hard
drive for 3 seconds, and the tapped keys are well kept in buffer resulting
in uncontrolled actions after.


> e) Objects should interact with each other -- If I dip my longsword in
> a potion of healing, something should happen. I should be able to
> put rings on pets, and remove those rings later (assuming they have
> fingers). Perhaps some pets wouldn't like the attempt, but heck, I
> should be able to try.

I think that the throne is taken by Nethack. :)


> f) I've been playing a lot of doom legacy lately, and I realized
> something: I take preverse pleasure in lining up creatures so that
> attacks are misdirected -- resulting in, say, a baron of hell
> attacking a heavy weapons guy instead of me. I want to see
> roguelikes with this ability. [ OT: I've also been noticing that
> I "pillar-dance" in doom. 😉 ]

Crawl is good in that, say you have electrical resistance and facing
electrical eels you can try to direct their harmless shots at other
monsters. It's also frequent that some monsters with piercing magic attacks
to kill others or themselves (with hallfire i.e.).

--
Loonie
---------------------------------------
Respondit Pilatus quod scripsi scripsi.
http://www.crawl.iconrate.net/traps.php
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Loonie <loonie2@tlen.pl> roared:
> Jesse Meyer .-- .-. --- - . ---...

>> d) Some way of making player hitpoint loss obvious would be
>> nice -- Damned if I know how I do it, but I tend to end up
>> ignoring my hitpoints and not noticing that
>> $BIG_SCARY_MONSTER is dropping my HP by a 3rd each hit.

> PC speaker alert would work fine IMO, however I would prefer some
> confirm ("Your character is at 10% HP! Hit 'C' to continue...")
> message for critical HP,

That'd just annoy me. Just like the Nethack patch that has you enter
'YES' or something for quit would. Pay attention! If you act
automatically, typing 'YES' isn't all that different from hitting
'y', anyway.

> as it's sometimes possible to die just by hitting too many keys at
> once when running or when PC *have* to read something from hard
> drive for 3 seconds, and the tapped keys are well kept in buffer
> resulting in uncontrolled actions after.

Don't do that, then. In some old Nethack spoiler (I think, one of
the first I got to look at) it said: "Don't lean on keys.". Well,
don't. If you do and you get killed, then it's your fault, not the
game's.

Making the Hp. display red is just fine.

>> e) Objects should interact with each other -- If I dip my
>> longsword in a potion of healing, something should happen.
>> I should be able to put rings on pets, and remove those
>> rings later (assuming they have fingers). Perhaps some pets
>> wouldn't like the attempt, but heck, I should be able to
>> try.

> I think that the throne is taken by Nethack. :)

Can't follow you here. Where's the connection?

--
Tina the Magician - a Follower of the Reluctantly Nipping Graphic
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:
>That'd just annoy me. Just like the Nethack patch that has you enter
>'YES' or something for quit would. Pay attention! If you act
>automatically, typing 'YES' isn't all that different from hitting
>'y', anyway.

Ah. That Nethack patch only *ever* asks you to type "YES" instead of
'y' when you try to quit (rather than for any other confirmable action),
IIRC...

m.
--
\_\/_/| Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
\ / | She comes like heaven sent her / Like Jesus died upon the cross /
\/ | Such cost / Such loss / She's almost everywhere
------+ -- The Faces Of Sarah, "Fatalistic Warning"
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Tina Hall .-- .-. --- - . ---...

>> PC speaker alert would work fine IMO, however I would prefer some
>> confirm ("Your character is at 10% HP! Hit 'C' to continue...")
>> message for critical HP,
> That'd just annoy me. Just like the Nethack patch that has you enter
> 'YES' or something for quit would. Pay attention! If you act
> automatically, typing 'YES' isn't all that different from hitting
> 'y', anyway.

I mean situation when you press keys too fast or lean on them. Then it
would help avoid danger. No problem in disactivationg that option if you
are so sure about your actions, as soon as it is available. Darshan's
travel patch is great, cause it removes most dangers connected to
unitentional/fast key tapping.


>> as it's sometimes possible to die just by hitting too many keys at
>> once when running or when PC *have* to read something from hard
>> drive for 3 seconds, and the tapped keys are well kept in buffer
>> resulting in uncontrolled actions after.
> Don't do that, then. In some old Nethack spoiler (I think, one of
> the first I got to look at) it said: "Don't lean on keys.". Well,
> don't. If you do and you get killed, then it's your fault, not the
> game's.

It's automatic for human being to repeat actions when you wait for the
effect.

> Making the Hp. display red is just fine.

I do not agree.


>>> e) Objects should interact with each other -- If I dip my
>>> longsword in a potion of healing, something should happen.
>>> I should be able to put rings on pets, and remove those
>>> rings later (assuming they have fingers). Perhaps some pets
>>> wouldn't like the attempt, but heck, I should be able to
>>> try.
>> I think that the throne is taken by Nethack. :)
> Can't follow you here. Where's the connection?

The connection is simple - usually it's not very interesting to do things
that already exist in excellent shape, either it would be a copy or will be
not so good. I assume Nethack is great in interaction between objects.
Better do something else that's also interesting but novel instead.

--
Loonie
---------------------------------------
Respondit Pilatus quod scripsi scripsi.
http://www.crawl.iconrate.net/traps.php
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Martin Read <mpread@chiark.greenend.org.uk> bellowed:
> Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:

>> That'd just annoy me. Just like the Nethack patch that has you
>> enter 'YES' or something for quit would. Pay attention! If you
>> act automatically, typing 'YES' isn't all that different from
>> hitting 'y', anyway.

> Ah. That Nethack patch only *ever* asks you to type "YES"
> instead of 'y' when you try to quit (rather than for any other
> confirmable action), IIRC...

I know. (And I wrote the above knowing that.)

--
Tina the Merry Crawler - a Follower of the Relentless Nauseous Gambler
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Loonie <loonie2@tlen.pl> barked:
> Tina Hall .-- .-. --- - . ---...

>>> I would prefer some confirm ("Your character is at 10% HP! Hit
>>> 'C' to continue...") message for critical HP,
>> That'd just annoy me. Just like the Nethack patch that has you
>> enter 'YES' or something for quit would. Pay attention! If you
>> act automatically, typing 'YES' isn't all that different from
>> hitting 'y', anyway.

> I mean situation when you press keys too fast or lean on them.

Yes. Don't lean on them. If you do, it's your fault.

> Then it would help avoid danger. No problem in disactivationg
> that option if you are so sure about your actions, as soon as it
> is available.

If you don't learn to be careful, don't blame it on the game's
interface. This is something the player should do.

> Darshan's travel patch is great, cause it removes
> most dangers connected to unitentional/fast key tapping.

Hm? It's great because it's convenient, so I don't have to press all
those keys myself when I drag stuff back to the stash. I'm lazy.

>>> as it's sometimes possible to die just by hitting too many keys
>>> at once when running or when PC *have* to read something from
>>> hard drive for 3 seconds, and the tapped keys are well kept in
>>> buffer resulting in uncontrolled actions after.
>> Don't do that, then. In some old Nethack spoiler (I think, one
>> of the first I got to look at) it said: "Don't lean on keys.".
>> Well, don't. If you do and you get killed, then it's your fault,
>> not the game's.

> It's automatic for human being to repeat actions when you wait
> for the effect.

What? If you can't control your urges, work on them, don't blame
them on the game.

>>>> e) Objects should interact with each other [...]
>>> I think that the throne is taken by Nethack. :)
>> Can't follow you here. Where's the connection?

> The connection is simple - usually it's not very interesting to
> do things that already exist in excellent shape, either it would
> be a copy or will be not so good. I assume Nethack is great in
> interaction between objects. Better do something else that's also
> interesting but novel instead.

I thought you mean Nethack thrones, and couldn't see the relevance
to rings.

I like interaction between objects. They don't have to be the same
as in Nethack. It's the idea that's nice.

Or (like in U7) also have a way to earn money through a job, like
baking bread and selling the result to a bread-shop.

--
Tina the Pike-Crawler - a Follower of the Repellent Naked Gift
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:
>Martin Read <mpread@chiark.greenend.org.uk> bellowed:
>> Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:
>>> That'd just annoy me. Just like the Nethack patch that has you
>>> enter 'YES' or something for quit would. Pay attention! If you
>>> act automatically, typing 'YES' isn't all that different from
>>> hitting 'y', anyway.
>
>> Ah. That Nethack patch only *ever* asks you to type "YES"
>> instead of 'y' when you try to quit (rather than for any other
>> confirmable action), IIRC...
>
>I know. (And I wrote the above knowing that.)

I act automatically with "finger macros" - for example, in Angband, I
think "magic missile that orc" and then type "m1a*t" without further
conscious thought. If I get as far as actually reading a prompt in a
roguelike, I've already been kicked out of automatic mode, so the
paranoia patch would be plenty powerful enough for me.

(I really must learn to type slower when I'm playing Crawl. The number
of wizards I've had die horribly when I fail to cast Throw Flame and hence
walk into a monster instead is kinda embarassing.)

m.
--
\_\/_/| Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
\ / | She comes like heaven sent her / Like Jesus died upon the cross /
\/ | Such cost / Such loss / She's almost everywhere
------+ -- The Faces Of Sarah, "Fatalistic Warning"
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Martin Read <mpread@chiark.greenend.org.uk> screeched:

[Nethack panic patch just bothersome or helpful?]

> I act automatically with "finger macros" - for example, in
> Angband, I think "magic missile that orc" and then type "m1a*t"
> without further conscious thought. If I get as far as actually
> reading a prompt in a roguelike, I've already been kicked out of
> automatic mode, so the paranoia patch would be plenty powerful
> enough for me.

If 'm1a*t' is no problem typing automatically, what'd be difficult
about typing 'strg+q' and 'YES' automatically?

In-build paranoya and trying to curb your automatic typing serves
you much better.

I've checked things in wizardmode in Nethack often enough, with an
automatically typed quit sequence, that I got paranoyd about
accidentally quitting a normal game, so I saved really slowly,
reading the prompt and all...

> (I really must learn to type slower when I'm playing Crawl. The
> number of wizards I've had die horribly when I fail to cast Throw
> Flame and hence walk into a monster instead is kinda
> embarassing.)

I do that, too, on occaseion, but I get shaked out of it soon
enough. Sometimes even without actual danger, just noticing what I'm
doing.

--
Tina the Earth Mage - a Priest of the Rejuvenating Noodle Gal
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:
>Martin Read <mpread@chiark.greenend.org.uk> screeched:
>> I act automatically with "finger macros" - for example, in
>> Angband, I think "magic missile that orc" and then type "m1a*t"
>> without further conscious thought. If I get as far as actually
>> reading a prompt in a roguelike, I've already been kicked out of
>> automatic mode, so the paranoia patch would be plenty powerful
>> enough for me.
>
>If 'm1a*t' is no problem typing automatically, what'd be difficult
>about typing 'strg+q' and 'YES' automatically?

'strg+q'? I always use the '#' key for extended commands in Nethack
(since I play with number_pad *off*), and reaching for the # key is
enough to kick me out of automatic mode because there are other ways to
suffer an *embarassing* mishap (#pray vs. #offer) with extended
commands.

I would never type "YES" automatically when playing Nethack, because no
other prompt requires me to type "YES" and there is no reason for me to
attempt to engrave anything beginning with an 'S' in a game of Nethack,
particularly not after running to the northwest. I could just about see
myself typoing a '#adjust' command, but see above about automatism and
extended commands.

Now, I admit that when quit was 'Q' I did manage to accidentally quit a
character a couple of times :/

>In-build paranoya and trying to curb your automatic typing serves
>you much better.
>
>I've checked things in wizardmode in Nethack often enough, with an
>automatically typed quit sequence, that I got paranoyd about
>accidentally quitting a normal game, so I saved really slowly,
>reading the prompt and all...

Fair enough.

>> (I really must learn to type slower when I'm playing Crawl. The
>> number of wizards I've had die horribly when I fail to cast Throw
>> Flame and hence walk into a monster instead is kinda
>> embarassing.)
>
>I do that, too, on occaseion, but I get shaked out of it soon
>enough. Sometimes even without actual danger, just noticing what I'm
>doing.

I should train myself to *never* use the direction keys for aiming but
always use the targeting interface.

m.
--
\_\/_/| Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
\ / | mein herz gebuerz die qual ein alleletztes mal
\/ | ein toter musikant spielt das stille lied
------+ -- das ich, "destillat"
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Tina Hall .-- .-. --- - . ---...

> Yes. Don't lean on them. If you do, it's your fault.
>
> If you don't learn to be careful, don't blame it on the game's
> interface. This is something the player should do.
>
> What? If you can't control your urges, work on them, don't blame
> them on the game.

🙂 Fortunately it's the program that should serve the user, not the
reverse.

--
Loonie
---------------------------------------
Respondit Pilatus quod scripsi scripsi.
http://www.crawl.iconrate.net/traps.php
 
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