Robotron: Weird!

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Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade,rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

For the sake of all humankind and all the Mikeys, Mommies and Daddies
out there, I am trying desperately to bring another Robotron upright
back into the world. PROBLEM: Only a 2-player game will start and the
guy you control keeps firing down. Plus, when it's player #2's turn
the screen does a 180 (acts as if it's in cocktail mode- yet the
appropriate jumper is set for upright play).

So... I disconnected the control panel connectors from the widget/IO
board and put the game into test mode. The report shows all control
panel switches as being ON with the exception of the curiously absent
player-1 switch.

Any ideas? Please help the nuclear family (and myself) out of this one.

Steve
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade,rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

Your interface board is bad. Repair or replace it.

-roy-


"zap777" <steve_zap777@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1114489490.704060.40180@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> For the sake of all humankind and all the Mikeys, Mommies and Daddies
> out there, I am trying desperately to bring another Robotron upright
> back into the world. PROBLEM: Only a 2-player game will start and the
> guy you control keeps firing down. Plus, when it's player #2's turn
> the screen does a 180 (acts as if it's in cocktail mode- yet the
> appropriate jumper is set for upright play).
>
> So... I disconnected the control panel connectors from the widget/IO
> board and put the game into test mode. The report shows all control
> panel switches as being ON with the exception of the curiously absent
> player-1 switch.
>
> Any ideas? Please help the nuclear family (and myself) out of this one.
>
> Steve
>
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade,rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

Correct. Confirm by disconnecting the interface board ribbon cable from the CPU
board. The most likely suspect is the 6821 (large chip) and it's inexpensive to
replace, if you want to bother with it. Highest price I've seen on one is
around $5 or so. Be sure to install a socket when you replace it.

Richard

On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 07:15:26 -0400, "Chumblespuzz" <nospam@cademo.com> wrote:

>Your interface board is bad. Repair or replace it.
>
>-roy-
>
>
>"zap777" <steve_zap777@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:1114489490.704060.40180@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> For the sake of all humankind and all the Mikeys, Mommies and Daddies
>> out there, I am trying desperately to bring another Robotron upright
>> back into the world. PROBLEM: Only a 2-player game will start and the
>> guy you control keeps firing down. Plus, when it's player #2's turn
>> the screen does a 180 (acts as if it's in cocktail mode- yet the
>> appropriate jumper is set for upright play).
>>
>> So... I disconnected the control panel connectors from the widget/IO
>> board and put the game into test mode. The report shows all control
>> panel switches as being ON with the exception of the curiously absent
>> player-1 switch.
>>
>> Any ideas? Please help the nuclear family (and myself) out of this one.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade,rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

Actually, I just re-read my message and realized that I had goofed.
Second paragraph should read the following:

"So... I disconnected the WIDGET/IO board from the CPU/VIDEO BOARD and
put the game into test mode (no control panel connectors connected).
The report shows all control panel switches as being ON with the
exception of the curiously absent player-1 switch."

Sorry.

Still the same diagnosis?

Thanks! Steve
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade,rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

Steve,
I think he's saying to remove the widget board and replace the 6821 pia
chip on that board. Unsolder it and put a socket in it's place and then
put a new chip in.

John
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade,rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

Thanks John. Yes but before I do that, can anyone tell me what the
switch test report should show with the widget/IO board completely
disconnected from the CPU/VIDEO board? That will confirm that
everything is okay with my CPU/VIDEO board.

Steve
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade,rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

Since many inputs are stuck ON during the diag test while my widget
board is disconnected, then I would assume it's a problem with the
CPU/VIDEO BOARD. Right?

Also, can improper grounding of the cabinet itself have something to do
with this problem? The unit is using a switching power supply and most
boards are grounding to GND (not FG). The ground strapping of the
cabinet really isn't being used, and the third prong of the A/C cord IS
attached to the line filter however the cabinet ground strap is not
connected to the filter. Is the primary purpose of the cabinet ground
strap so one doesn't shock themselves while touching the coin door,
control panel, etc. or is it deeply tied-in with the game's circuitry,
playability, etc.? (or both?).

I bought this machine at an auction and whoever had it before really
did a number on it/me. When I got the machine home I found that just
about all wires were chopped up/off with the exception of a few key
wires that kept the game running in attract mode. All control panel
wires were disconnected, there was no mounting plate, no sound card, no
power PCB, no heatsink, no wires were connected to the coin door, no
main harness, ground strapping disconnected, etc. It was an auction
scam because the coin door and back door were locked and believe it or
not after I won the auction (a real physical auction- not ebay), the
key magically appeared in the coin door. But you know, 'buyer beware'
so I really can't blame anyone but myself for this. But I have turned
'being pissed' into 'being realy excited with the challenge of getting
this thing to work 100% or die trying!"

I have already made several molex to molex connectors for the parts I
have been slowly collecting through ebay and other sources. And I do
have sound, video and other stuff.. but when finally getting up to the
control panel wiring stage yesterday, I ran into the 'input devices
being stuck on' dilemma. SO CLOSE! :)

Steve
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade,rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

I had a suspicion that earlier that's what you *really* meant, but what the
heck. : ) If you remove the interface board's ribbon cable from the CPU board,
you should see no input whatsoever, except for coin door switches. It's been a
while since I've had to look at Williams diagrams and I had thought all inputs
went through the interface board, but while talking w/Derek about his Joust
problem, he pointed out that the diagrams show them going straight to the CPU
(via the ROM board.)

Richard

On 26 Apr 2005 17:18:25 -0700, "zap777" <steve_zap777@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Thanks John. Yes but before I do that, can anyone tell me what the
>switch test report should show with the widget/IO board completely
>disconnected from the CPU/VIDEO board? That will confirm that
>everything is okay with my CPU/VIDEO board.
>
>Steve
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade,rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

This is really interesting because I have almost exactly the same problem as
you do. My Robotron's 1P button doesn't work, and the firing was stuck in
the UP position. When I ran diagnostic mode I went to the input test and saw
fire up stuck to on - I wiggled the joystick up and down a bit and then it
suddenly turned off. Rebooting the game saw that the issue was fixed, but 1P
still didn't (and doesn't) work. When playing player #2 my machine doesn't
go into cocktail flip, though.

-Rob

"zap777" <steve_zap777@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1114571301.227373.324200@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Since many inputs are stuck ON during the diag test while my widget
> board is disconnected, then I would assume it's a problem with the
> CPU/VIDEO BOARD. Right?
>
> Also, can improper grounding of the cabinet itself have something to do
> with this problem? The unit is using a switching power supply and most
> boards are grounding to GND (not FG). The ground strapping of the
> cabinet really isn't being used, and the third prong of the A/C cord IS
> attached to the line filter however the cabinet ground strap is not
> connected to the filter. Is the primary purpose of the cabinet ground
> strap so one doesn't shock themselves while touching the coin door,
> control panel, etc. or is it deeply tied-in with the game's circuitry,
> playability, etc.? (or both?).
>
> I bought this machine at an auction and whoever had it before really
> did a number on it/me. When I got the machine home I found that just
> about all wires were chopped up/off with the exception of a few key
> wires that kept the game running in attract mode. All control panel
> wires were disconnected, there was no mounting plate, no sound card, no
> power PCB, no heatsink, no wires were connected to the coin door, no
> main harness, ground strapping disconnected, etc. It was an auction
> scam because the coin door and back door were locked and believe it or
> not after I won the auction (a real physical auction- not ebay), the
> key magically appeared in the coin door. But you know, 'buyer beware'
> so I really can't blame anyone but myself for this. But I have turned
> 'being pissed' into 'being realy excited with the challenge of getting
> this thing to work 100% or die trying!"
>
> I have already made several molex to molex connectors for the parts I
> have been slowly collecting through ebay and other sources. And I do
> have sound, video and other stuff.. but when finally getting up to the
> control panel wiring stage yesterday, I ran into the 'input devices
> being stuck on' dilemma. SO CLOSE! :)
>
> Steve
>
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade,rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

What I know about widgets is that if they are unplugged you will get
all kinds of input in test mode so ignore it and put a known working
widget on the board and be done with it. :)
~eric
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade,rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

Okay, I guess it's time to follow the Yellow Brick Road to the land o'
the widgets. By the way, anyone have a spare, 100% working widget
board lying around? I can trade you for perhaps a Robotron marquee in
good shape, or original DK Jr. control panel overlay, or something
else. Or maybe out of the goodness of your heart you can spare a
widget? :)

Steve
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade,rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

What happens when you power on the game with the widget board
disconnected from the CPU/VIDEO BOARD? What do the test results show?
Would be really interesting if it showed the same thing as mine.

Steve
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade,rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

Humm...

I haven't tried it, but I suspect the it would just leave the data bus
floating on access and as such you may get indeterminate data.

best,

steve

"zap777" <steve_zap777@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1114561105.447615.176200@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks John. Yes but before I do that, can anyone tell me what the
> switch test report should show with the widget/IO board completely
> disconnected from the CPU/VIDEO board? That will confirm that
> everything is okay with my CPU/VIDEO board.
>
> Steve
>
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade,rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

Great! Thanks for trying that out Rich. Just to clarify, when you said
"switch test shows pretty much all inputs" you mean that the test shows
pretty much all inputs as being stuck ON, correct? If so, this probably
means that the problem is most likely limited to my widget board.

Anyone know where to get one of those 6821 chips RIch was talking
about? Thanks.

Steve
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade,rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

Scott, definitely interested in finding out what your unit shows. Rich
tried it and as I understand it pretty much all inputs are shown as ON.

Steve
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade,rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

I'm pretty sure that it won't show anything but the test switches and the
coin inputs, I have a cocktail that I'm working on and I can check them out
after work and let you know what it shows.

Scott


"zap777" <steve_zap777@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1114625040.847372.240930@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> What happens when you power on the game with the widget board
> disconnected from the CPU/VIDEO BOARD? What do the test results show?
> Would be really interesting if it showed the same thing as mine.
>
> Steve
>
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade,rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

In rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace Steve Muccione <home*DOT*muccione@verizon.net> wrote:
: Humm...
:
: I haven't tried it, but I suspect the it would just leave the data bus
: floating on access and as such you may get indeterminate data.

TTL inputs normally float high.

IIRC, all switches closed is what you expect with no widget.

--
Mark Spaeth mspaeth@mtl.mit.edu
50 Vassar St., #38.265 mspaeth@mit.edu
Cambridge, MA 02139
(617) 452-2354 http://rgvac.978.org/~mspaeth
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade,rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

Good point. I confirmed it by actually trying it. My Robotron with the
interface board ribbon unplugged from the CPU board, switch test shows pretty
much all inputs - except for player one start. Theory and logic are nice but
even nicer when you can prove it in reality for confirmation.

Richard

On 27 Apr 2005 14:29:07 GMT, "Mark C. Spaeth" <mspaeth@plancherel.mit.edu>
wrote:

>In rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace Steve Muccione <home*DOT*muccione@verizon.net> wrote:
>: Humm...
>:
>: I haven't tried it, but I suspect the it would just leave the data bus
>: floating on access and as such you may get indeterminate data.
>
>TTL inputs normally float high.
>
>IIRC, all switches closed is what you expect with no widget.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade,rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

Interesting that player 1 is gone from the list when the widget board
is disconnected. That function is probably passed-thru the widget
board and handled directly by the CPU/VIDEO BOARD.

Anyway, look what I just found (you may already have this).
Interesting document! :
http://www.ionpool.net/arcade/williams/Langley_Williams_Repair_Log.pdf

If you didn't already know, that 6821 is a PIA chip. A description I
found at a glossary online at:
(http://members.cox.net/seanriddle/glossary.html) is:
"PIA - Programmable Interface Adapter. An IC (designated 6821) that
allows the CPU to interact with other devices. On the Williams games,
several of these are used to talk to the sound board, read the control
panel, etc."

Steve
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade,rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

Interesting that player 1 is gone from the list when the widget board
is disconnected. That function is probably passed-thru the widget
board and handled directly by the CPU/VIDEO BOARD.

Anyway, look what I just found (you may already have this).
Interesting document! :
http://www.ionpool.net/arcade/williams/Langley_Williams_Repair_Log.pdf

If you didn't already know, that 6821 is a PIA chip. A description I
found at a glossary online at:
(http://members.cox.net/seanriddle/glossary.html) is:
"PIA - Programmable Interface Adapter. An IC (designated 6821) that
allows the CPU to interact with other devices. On the Williams games,
several of these are used to talk to the sound board, read the control
panel, etc."

Steve
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade,rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

Interesting that player 1 is gone from the list when the widget board
is disconnected. That function is probably passed-thru the widget
board and handled directly by the CPU/VIDEO BOARD.

Anyway, look what I just found (you may already have this).
Interesting document! :
http://www.ionpool.net/arcade/williams/Langley_Williams_Repair_Log.pdf

If you didn't already know, that 6821 is a PIA chip. A description I
found at a glossary online at:
(http://members.cox.net/seanriddle/glossary.html) is:
"PIA - Programmable Interface Adapter. An IC (designated 6821) that
allows the CPU to interact with other devices. On the Williams games,
several of these are used to talk to the sound board, read the control
panel, etc."

Steve
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade,rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

Yes, a whole row of inputs showed as stuck on. I didn't examine it very closely
to see if *everything* was shown, but it was a large amount of switches.
However, player 1 was missing from the list.

You can get a 6821 from Bob Roberts (www.therealbobroberts.com) for $5. They're
an incredibly common chip, though it is obsolete. You should be able to find
them at a large number of electronics supply places, providing they sell a
decent range of IC's.

There's no 100% guarantee the 6821 is your problem, but it's the main component
of the interface board and known for croaking every now and then. The other
supporting chips on the board are dime a dozen as well.

Richard

On 27 Apr 2005 13:37:09 -0700, "zap777" <steve_zap777@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Great! Thanks for trying that out Rich. Just to clarify, when you said
>"switch test shows pretty much all inputs" you mean that the test shows
>pretty much all inputs as being stuck ON, correct? If so, this probably
>means that the problem is most likely limited to my widget board.
>
>Anyone know where to get one of those 6821 chips RIch was talking
>about? Thanks.
>
>Steve
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade,rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

No problem; thanks anyway.

Steve
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade,rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

Well, since my test switches don't work I couldn't try it out to see what I
got.. looks like others have similar results though.

Scott



"zap777" <steve_zap777@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1114634410.891503.140960@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Scott, definitely interested in finding out what your unit shows. Rich
> tried it and as I understand it pretty much all inputs are shown as ON.
>
> Steve
>
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade,rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

I'm pretty familiar with the 6821 and its role as a PIA. ; ) Older Williams
pinballs use LOTS of them. Your typical System 11 machine (Black Knight 2000,
Pinbot, etc.), for example, has an average of 6~7 6821's. Good thing these
chips are still cheap. : ) Anyway, point is, it's very common in many older
Williams games. They used them since their first solid state pin in 1977 (maybe
even in their proto SS's in 1976) and didn't quit until the WPC boardset was
introduced in late 1990.

Richard

On 27 Apr 2005 15:27:46 -0700, "zap777" <steve_zap777@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Interesting that player 1 is gone from the list when the widget board
>is disconnected. That function is probably passed-thru the widget
>board and handled directly by the CPU/VIDEO BOARD.
>
>Anyway, look what I just found (you may already have this).
>Interesting document! :
>http://www.ionpool.net/arcade/williams/Langley_Williams_Repair_Log.pdf
>
>If you didn't already know, that 6821 is a PIA chip. A description I
>found at a glossary online at:
>(http://members.cox.net/seanriddle/glossary.html) is:
>"PIA - Programmable Interface Adapter. An IC (designated 6821) that
>allows the CPU to interact with other devices. On the Williams games,
>several of these are used to talk to the sound board, read the control
>panel, etc."
>
>Steve
 
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