rookie in need of advice!

[athletyk]

Hey all,

I understand that similar questions are asked all the time, I've been doing a lot of research on hardware lately after being away from the hardware business for god-knows-how-long! to be frank, I have become kind of excited and at the same time, a little indecisive on how to proceed with this rig. I'd like to be able games such as assassin's creed origin/tomb raider, etc on high settings without any major limitations.

My current rig is quite old, I've built it about 5-6years ago and have been using for a while without any major issues up until recently when I graded my monitor to 1440p, that's when I realized the aging toll on this rig with today's videogames.

I initially thought of rebuilding a whole new computer but then I thought of upgrading the GPU only and see if that remedies my gaming experience.

My specs are as follows:

cpu: i5 4690k
mobo: asus z87c
ram: ddr3 16gigs 2000
gpu: msi gtx 760
psu: corsair vs650

I have been thinking of just getting myself either an RTX 2070 super/RTX 2080 super and continuing with them until the market storms calm or at least get to black friday's sales and decide then?



What are your thoughts? are there anything that I should be concerned with my old hardware when installing these GPUs? I would highly appreciate every little of advice.

Thanks!
A

 

[WildCard999]

Before you do any upgrading that PSU needs to be replaced. While it may of worked fine with your GTX 760 I wouldn't trust it with a 2070 or 2080 Super.

As for upgrading the GPU first then possibly going with the CPU/MB/RAM upgrade I agree that would be a good way to to. While 4 cores is kind of limiting though if you were to overclock that 4690K you may be able to get good performance paired with a new GPU at 1440P.
https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/intel-temperature-guide.1488337/

 

[geofelt]

Your 4790K is still a very good processor.
Have you overclocked? That can give you some 25% better cpu performance.

Likely, your limiting factor is your graphics card trying to run at higher resolutions.
Run YOUR games, but lower your resolution and eye candy.
If your FPS increases, it indicates that your cpu is strong enough to drive a better graphics configuration.
If your FPS stays the same, you are likely more cpu limited.

Corsair VS units are considered as tier 5/ 6 on this list:

PSU Tier List [OLD]

Credit to @Starelementpokeand @Energycore for helping out with this long-awaited refresh of the old PSU tier list by Aniallation (who previously went several months without logging in), leaving the old list in need of help. This is simply an update of the list that was flawed in creation by the P...

linustechtips.com

It might run, but I would invest in a seasonic focus 650w unit.

 

[athletyk]

Many thanks fellas!

Before you do any upgrading that PSU needs to be replaced. While it may of worked fine with your GTX 760 I wouldn't trust it with a 2070 or 2080 Super.

As for upgrading the GPU first then possibly going with the CPU/MB/RAM upgrade I agree that would be a good way to to. While 4 cores is kind of limiting though if you were to overclock that 4690K you may be able to get good performance paired with a new GPU at 1440P.
https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/intel-temperature-guide.1488337/

I have just bought a Corsair RM850x, going to remove the old one later tonight. it's going to remove a huge portion of the junk of wires from my case's back panel.

Your 4790K is still a very good processor.
Have you overclocked? That can give you some 25% better cpu performance.

Likely, your limiting factor is your graphics card trying to run at higher resolutions.
Run YOUR games, but lower your resolution and eye candy.
If your FPS increases, it indicates that your cpu is strong enough to drive a better graphics configuration.
If your FPS stays the same, you are likely more cpu limited.

Corsair VS units are considered as tier 5/ 6 on this list:

PSU Tier List [OLD]

Credit to @Starelementpokeand @Energycore for helping out with this long-awaited refresh of the old PSU tier list by Aniallation (who previously went several months without logging in), leaving the old list in need of help. This is simply an update of the list that was flawed in creation by the P...

linustechtips.com

It might run, but I would invest in a seasonic focus 650w unit.

No I have not overclocked it, I am ok with it's current performance, I mean, it's not the fastest but not the worst either. I am new to overclocking anyway, Will definitely do a bit of research on that, I am assuming that the stock cpu cooling fan that came with my i5 needs to be replaced?

 

[geofelt]

Overclocking of a processor today is a bit of a misnomer.
What you do is increase the default all core multiplier in your bios from the default 40 to a higher number.
Leaving the bios on auto will get that adjusted automatically.
Do so gradually and test with a stress test program. CPU-Z has such an option. Not the most stressful, but still OK.
Two things to monitor.
a) Monitor the vcore as displayed in cpu-Z. The vcore will rise as the multiplier is increased.
1.3v is safe, 1.4v should be your max limit.
It is excessive voltage that can damage your processor.
b) Temperature.
As the voltage rises, it creates heat.
HWmonitor will record your current, minimum and max temperatures.
During a stress test, 85c should be your limit.
Do not worry too much about the dangers of heat.
The processor monitors temperature and will slow down or shut off if it detects a dangerous temperature. That is around 100c.
The stock pushpin cooler is OK up to a point.
To get the max out of your processor, you could opt for a better cooler.
But, a better cooler will be quieter and keep temperature from being a limit.
Noctua, I think, makes the best coolers. They are easy to install and are quiet.
What is your case? If it has 160mm available, the very best cooler is the noctua NH-D15s. Avout $80.
A lesser NH-U12s can also work.
The NH-U14s is intermediate, but needs 165mm as does the NH-D15.
A good cooler can be moved easily to a future build and is a good long term investment.
If you have a good case with at least two 120/140mm front intakes you will have good cooling.
I am not much in favor of aio liquid coolers which seem to be popular.
My canned rant on liquid cooling:
------------------------start of rant-------------------
You buy a liquid cooler to be able to extract an extra multiplier or two out of your OC.
How much do you really need?
I do not much like all in one liquid coolers when a good air cooler like a Noctua or phanteks can do the job just as well.
A liquid cooler will be expensive, noisy, less reliable, and will not cool any better
in a well ventilated case.
Liquid cooling is really air cooling, it just puts the heat exchange in a different place.
The orientation of the radiator will cause a problem.
If you orient it to take in cool air from the outside, you will cool the cpu better, but the hot air then circulates inside the case heating up the graphics card and motherboard.
If you orient it to exhaust(which I think is better) , then your cpu cooling will be less effective because it uses pre heated case air.
Past that, A AIO radiator complicates creating a positive pressure filtered cooling setup which can keep your parts clean.
And... I have read too many tales of woe when a liquid cooler leaks.
Google for AIO leaks to see what can happen.
While unlikely, leaks do happen.

I would support an AIO cooler primarily in a space restricted case.
If one puts looks over function, that is a personal thing; not for me though.
-----------------------end of rant--------------------------

Your pc will be quieter, more reliable, and will be cooled equally well with a decent air cooler
like the Noctua NH-U12s or NH-NH-D15s.

 

[SgtScream]

For the latest triple A titles i'd recommend a full platform upgrade simply because that processor won't meet minimum system requirements and many new and upcoming games are optimized for 6 to 8 cores including SMT and Hyper-Threading. However, if you cannot do this and or you just casually game, now would be a good time to do a graphics card monitor combo upgrade so that all you have to do is upgrade the platform in the future.

Simply put, if you had to pick one over another, having a RTX 2070 in your existing rig would have better performance over a new platform and the GTX 760 combo. If you are financially able to build a whole new system, then I would just do it to ensure all of your components are reasonably comparable to one another. Going with the first two options will have significant limitations in performance on either side of the hardware spectrum via today's triple A title hardware requirements and gaming demands.

 

[SgtScream]

For example, if you upgrade your graphics card to the RTX 2070, you will have roughly the same graphical output as a GTX 1060 6gb/RX 580 8gb due to being limited by your current CPU/Motherboard/Memory combo. Performance will be left on the table and money will be wasted. However if it's only temporary and you simply must do upgrades in stages due to financial reasons then it is justified. If you want just to have a graphical bump in "horse power", just OC your processor and go with a GTX 1660 or at most the TI variant because anything more will be severely CPU bound by your current platform.

 

[athletyk]

Overclocking of a processor today is a bit of a misnomer.
What you do is increase the default all core multiplier in your bios from the default 40 to a higher number.
Leaving the bios on auto will get that adjusted automatically.
Do so gradually and test with a stress test program. CPU-Z has such an option. Not the most stressful, but still OK.
Two things to monitor.
a) Monitor the vcore as displayed in cpu-Z. The vcore will rise as the multiplier is increased.
1.3v is safe, 1.4v should be your max limit.
It is excessive voltage that can damage your processor.
b) Temperature.
As the voltage rises, it creates heat.
HWmonitor will record your current, minimum and max temperatures.
During a stress test, 85c should be your limit.
Do not worry too much about the dangers of heat.
The processor monitors temperature and will slow down or shut off if it detects a dangerous temperature. That is around 100c.
The stock pushpin cooler is OK up to a point.
To get the max out of your processor, you could opt for a better cooler.
But, a better cooler will be quieter and keep temperature from being a limit.
Noctua, I think, makes the best coolers. They are easy to install and are quiet.
What is your case? If it has 160mm available, the very best cooler is the noctua NH-D15s. Avout $80.
A lesser NH-U12s can also work.
The NH-U14s is intermediate, but needs 165mm as does the NH-D15.
A good cooler can be moved easily to a future build and is a good long term investment.
If you have a good case with at least two 120/140mm front intakes you will have good cooling.
I am not much in favor of aio liquid coolers which seem to be popular.
My canned rant on liquid cooling:
------------------------start of rant-------------------
You buy a liquid cooler to be able to extract an extra multiplier or two out of your OC.
How much do you really need?
I do not much like all in one liquid coolers when a good air cooler like a Noctua or phanteks can do the job just as well.
A liquid cooler will be expensive, noisy, less reliable, and will not cool any better
in a well ventilated case.
Liquid cooling is really air cooling, it just puts the heat exchange in a different place.
The orientation of the radiator will cause a problem.
If you orient it to take in cool air from the outside, you will cool the cpu better, but the hot air then circulates inside the case heating up the graphics card and motherboard.
If you orient it to exhaust(which I think is better) , then your cpu cooling will be less effective because it uses pre heated case air.
Past that, A AIO radiator complicates creating a positive pressure filtered cooling setup which can keep your parts clean.
And... I have read too many tales of woe when a liquid cooler leaks.
Google for AIO leaks to see what can happen.
While unlikely, leaks do happen.

I would support an AIO cooler primarily in a space restricted case.
If one puts looks over function, that is a personal thing; not for me though.
-----------------------end of rant--------------------------

Your pc will be quieter, more reliable, and will be cooled equally well with a decent air cooler
like the Noctua NH-U12s or NH-NH-D15s.

Thanks for the info. I've just gone through my BIOS, seems like I had multi enhancement enabled, which kind of does a similar role to what you wrote. I am tempted to do it manually. I did have a quick look at softwares that would measure CPU temperatures, downloaded Core Temp which was recommended by many websites, ended up with an icon for "goodgame empire" on my desktop and a few redirection to some random website which google chrome blocked. Are CPU-z and HWinfo trustworthy?

For example, if you upgrade your graphics card to the RTX 2070, you will have roughly the same graphical output as a GTX 1060 6gb/RX 580 8gb due to being limited by your current CPU/Motherboard/Memory combo. Performance will be left on the table and money will be wasted. However if it's only temporary and you simply must do upgrades in stages due to financial reasons then it is justified. If you want just to have a graphical bump in "horse power", just OC your processor and go with a GTX 1660 or at most the TI variant because anything more will be severely CPU bound by your current platform.

I do intend on upgrading my entire system eventually. I got the PSU out of the way btw. I am going next for the GPU as the one I have is horrendous with some titles, ie; assassin's creed - origin at both 1080p and 1440p, even if it would mean my current hardware would be a limiting factor for the full gpu capacity. so long as it doesn't get damaged, this would at least allow me to extend the lifetime of this rig-- the rest will be upgraded eventually, I am just trying to mitigate the expenses across the next few months.


my planned upgrades:

either I7-9700k or I9-9900k
Asus rog Z390 maximus hero or gigabyte z390 aourus ultra
2080 super (considering there's only about $200 difference with the 2070s)

haven't decided on the ram yet but I've carted viper patriot 16gb 3200mhz for the time being (I would appreciate a bit of advice here too, been reading about the diminishing returns on higher speeds)

I might be maintaining my current case too (this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thermaltake-Overseer-Gaming-USB3-0-Docking/dp/B005IHZ938 )

 

[SgtScream]

Thanks for the info. I've just gone through my BIOS, seems like I had multi enhancement enabled, which kind of does a similar role to what you wrote. I am tempted to do it manually. I did have a quick look at softwares that would measure CPU temperatures, downloaded Core Temp which was recommended by many websites, ended up with an icon for "goodgame empire" on my desktop and a few redirection to some random website which google chrome blocked. Are CPU-z and HWinfo trustworthy?



I do intend on upgrading my entire system eventually. I got the PSU out of the way btw. I am going next for the GPU as the one I have is horrendous with some titles, ie; assassin's creed - origin at both 1080p and 1440p, even if it would mean my current hardware would be a limiting factor for the full gpu capacity. so long as it doesn't get damaged, this would at least allow me to extend the lifetime of this rig-- the rest will be upgraded eventually, I am just trying to mitigate the expenses across the next few months.


my planned upgrades:

either I7-9700k or I9-9900k
Asus rog Z390 maximus hero or gigabyte z390 aourus ultra
2080 super (considering there's only about $200 difference with the 2070s)

haven't decided on the ram yet but I've carted viper patriot 16gb 3200mhz for the time being (I would appreciate a bit of advice here too, been reading about the diminishing returns on higher speeds)

I might be maintaining my current case too (this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thermaltake-Overseer-Gaming-USB3-0-Docking/dp/B005IHZ938 )

In a few months a whole new line up of intel processors could potentially be released (i.e. comet lake). It will be Intels first counter to AMD's legitimiate competition in more than a decade and will be perfect timing for you to do a platform upgrade! My suggestion is to revisit the memory when you're ready.

 

[geofelt]

To answer your questions:

Yes, cpu-Z and hwmonitor are trustworthy.
Be certain you download them directly from the source, not from another site which can include adware or other junk.
CPU-Z

CPUID

CPUID brings you system & hardware benchmark, monitoring, reporting quality softwares for your Windows & Android devices

www.cpuid.com

HWmonitor:

DOWNLOADING HWMONITOR_1.28.EXE | CPUID

Voltages, temperatures and fans speed monitoring

www.cpuid.com

Both come from the same people.
Use cpu-z to monitor what your multiplier is. It will vary if you have speedstep enabled.
That is a good thing which reduces the multiplier and voltage when there is little to do.
CPU-Z has a simple stress test. You should see the multiplier at the max when you run it.


I really think the 9700K is as good as it gets for gaming. Save the 9900K price premium and put the difference towards a top graphics card. No games really will use the incremental 8 thread of the 9900K.

Your case is a very good one for air cooling.
A front 200mm intake fan is more than capable of feeding an overclocked processor air cooler along with a hot graphics card. measure the height available for a top air cooler.
You will need 160mm for a top of the line Noctua NH-D15s which I recommend.
That may preclude installing a 200mm side fan, but such an addition will not be necessary.
If, for example you needed added air intake, noctua makes a nice 1600rpm replacement for your 600rpm included fan.
In my situation, I run a 8600K@5.0 and a GTX1080ti in a small silverstone TJ-08E case.
My only intake is a 180mm fan running at slow speed. I have no thermal issues.