Discussion RTX 2060 SUPER & RX 2070 SUPER Review Roundup !!

[Metal Messiah.]

Hello, just some heads-up. You might be aware of this though. Anyways, the embargo has been lifted for the founder's edition RTX 2060 and RTX 2070 GPU reviews. Here is a consolidated list of reviews, as posted by VideoCardz. Reviews are going LIVE slowly, as I type here:

https://videocardz.com/81189/nvidia-geforce-rtx-2060-super-rx-2070-super-review-roundup

Slight performance uplift is surely there, in some games, as evident from the reviews. But is it really WORTH it ?

 

[Metal Messiah.]

 

[TCA_ChinChin]

The RTX-2070 Super is just an upgrade over the RTX-2070, but the RTX-2060 is roughly same performance increase for the price increase. I've said it in some other places, but if Nvidia had released this originally, they would have been praised instead of ridiculed for the prices. Also, its nice for new buyers, but it sucks for everyone else, especially Turing early adopters. Thats gonna leave a bad taste in some people's mouths.

 

[dotas1]

It seems like the 2060 Super performs almost like a 2070 and the 2070 Super like almost a 2080.
We need to know also the final prices in order to compare properly the performance vs price ratio.

 

[Phaaze88]

Is it worth it?
Try asking the 2080/2070 owners...

But, I'd still say no. Sure, they perform better, but the value - still depends on individual perspective - is still terrible. When they first launched, they were around 30% improvement over the 10-series, but cost 70% more on average.
Performance on the Super cards will be similar - in their respective tiers - while being what, 55-60%(just a guess) more than the 10-series?
No improvements were made with the tensor cores/ray tracing features - you know, the PRIMARY FEATURE of these things. They took dies that didn't measure up for their intended skus, and rebranded it (what failed to become a 2080, is now 2070 super, and so on).

Now, about that 2080Ti...

 

[justin.m.beauvais]

Basically, Super is what NVidia SHOULD have released when they released the Turing cards. Instead they sandbagged until AMD looked like they might compete, then released better cards. Not a strategy that most consumers will be happy with. AMD fans will be upset, Turing owners will be bitter. The only people they are making kinda happy are the NVidia fans who haven't bought up into Turing yet... and they probably aren't enthusiastic about the price.

It is stuff like this that makes me hate giving NVidia money.

 

[Metal Messiah.]

We need to know also the final prices in order to compare properly the performance vs price ratio.

Aren't the prices already been finalized ? $699, $499, and $399 ??

 

[jfizzle4321]

Aren't the prices already been finalized ? $699, $499, and $399 ??

It's listed as $399 but who knows with mark-up? I put myself on a list to receive updates. I'm running 2 X GTX 970s in SLI and a super offers equal or slightly worse/slightly better performance without the bother of worrying about fading SLI support. But I have to say, this generation of nVidia cards reminds me of the 7 series release. The "upgrade" is really just incremental. My processor is older so this will be the last GPU replacement for me before I do another build. But nVidia has done a major disservice to the industry over the the last 2 years. I'm hoping the crypto-miners do not have such a negative impact on the industry going forward.

 

[Metal Messiah.]

BTW, TECHPOWERUP just posted an article. Worth giving a read.

NVIDIA Manufacturing Turing GPUs at Samsung Korea Fab, 11nm?

To quote their article:

""During our disassembly of the GeForce RTX 2060 Super, we noticed a shocking detail. The 12 nm "TU106" GPU on which it is based, has the marking "Korea." We know for a fact that TSMC does not have any fabs there. The only Korean semiconductor manufacturer capable of contract-manufacturing a piece of silicon as complex as a GPU, for a designer with the energy-efficiency OCD as NVIDIA, is Samsung.

What makes this interesting is that Samsung does not officially have a 12 nm FinFET process. It has 14 nm, and the 11LPP, a 11 nm nodelet, which the company designed to compete with TSMC 12 nm. It would hence be really interesting to hear from NVIDIA on whether they've scaled out the "TU106" to 14LPP, or down to 11LPP at Samsung. It's interesting to note that the shrink in transistor sizes in these nodelets doesn't affect die-sizes. We hence see no die-size difference between these Korea-marked chips, and those marked "Taiwan." We've reached out to NVIDIA for comment.""

 

[digitalgriffin]

BTW, TECHPOWERUP just posted an article. Worth giving a read.

NVIDIA Manufacturing Turing GPUs at Samsung Korea Fab, 11nm?

To quote their article:

""During our disassembly of the GeForce RTX 2060 Super, we noticed a shocking detail. The 12 nm "TU106" GPU on which it is based, has the marking "Korea." We know for a fact that TSMC does not have any fabs there. The only Korean semiconductor manufacturer capable of contract-manufacturing a piece of silicon as complex as a GPU, for a designer with the energy-efficiency OCD as NVIDIA, is Samsung.

What makes this interesting is that Samsung does not officially have a 12 nm FinFET process. It has 14 nm, and the 11LPP, a 11 nm nodelet, which the company designed to compete with TSMC 12 nm. It would hence be really interesting to hear from NVIDIA on whether they've scaled out the "TU106" to 14LPP, or down to 11LPP at Samsung. It's interesting to note that the shrink in transistor sizes in these nodelets doesn't affect die-sizes. We hence see no die-size difference between these Korea-marked chips, and those marked "Taiwan." We've reached out to NVIDIA for comment.""

Wouldn't surprise me. New nodes are often tested on simpler architectures to work out the kinks. (Or at least it USED to be that way.)

 

[digitalgriffin]

With all the early leaks, I was expecting the 2070 Super to be $599. I'm pleased to see it's at $500. Not because that's a good price. I still think it's high. But $500 means a price war for sure and AMD 5700/5700 XT is dead in the water like Fury Nano. It won't be long before we see $450->$475 2070 Supers I bet.

The irony is if AMD came out of the gate at $400 for the XT, this likely wouldn't have happened. Given Turings large die size, I doubt NVIDIA would be willing to cut prices that much out of the gate.

 

[TCA_ChinChin]

A possible saving grace for consumers is if AMD lowered their 5700/5700XT prices by 100$ in order to remain competitive. Unfortunately, I don't see AMD doing that. Perhaps discounts early after launch, but probably no changes to MSRP at launch.

 

[King_V]

I suspect this will affect AMD's pricing strategy.

That said, I have to agree with the chorus - I'm actually pleased with this development, and would've praised Nvidia for it, had this been their initial strategy.

Instead, it's pretty obvious they milked a non-competitive market for as long as they could, and only started considering offering a better performance/dollar when they had a few worries about Navi.

It may be late, and I still want to see what comes from 2080 Super (and how close it might come to 2080Ti, and if there will be a 2080Ti Super, etc, etc), but what I'm seeing now with 2060 Super and 2070 Super reinforces the idea that these are the cards the 2060 and 2070 should've been in the first place.

The price points are better. Great? No, but definitely at least making me think price/performance is now something Nvidia is thinking about.

 

[hftvhftv]

Is it worth it?
Try asking the 2080/2070 owners...

But, I'd still say no. Sure, they perform better, but the value - still depends on individual perspective - is still terrible. When they first launched, they were around 30% improvement over the 10-series, but cost 70% more on average.
Performance on the Super cards will be similar - in their respective tiers - while being what, 55-60%(just a guess) more than the 10-series?
No improvements were made with the tensor cores/ray tracing features - you know, the PRIMARY FEATURE of these things. They took dies that didn't measure up for their intended skus, and rebranded it (what failed to become a 2080, is now 2070 super, and so on).

Now, about that 2080Ti...

This is just Nvidia selling off the SKUs that couldn't meet the standards set for the RTX 2080/2070 as "Super" 2070s and 2060s, albeit thankfully there was no price increase, and the 2070 Super supports NVLink due to the different GPU.

 

[digitalgriffin]

A possible saving grace for consumers is if AMD lowered their 5700/5700XT prices by 100$ in order to remain competitive. Unfortunately, I don't see AMD doing that. Perhaps discounts early after launch, but probably no changes to MSRP at launch.

AMD has their feet in the cement. To lower price on launch would pretty much admit defeat. So they have egg on their face either way. (And lowering prices on launch would likely not make their AIB partners too happy either.)

Likely what will happen is AMD will offer a 2 game bundle. It's less enticing than a price break, but it will help. For this to be worth it, you'll likely have to want both games already. Then it becomes a wash.

Then 3 months prices will naturally fall, once initial demand dies.

 

[jfizzle4321]

AMD has their feet in the cement. To lower price on launch would pretty much admit defeat. So they have egg on their face either way. (And lowering prices on launch would likely not make their AIB partners too happy either.)

Likely what will happen is AMD will offer a 2 game bundle. It's less enticing than a price break, but it will help. For this to be worth it, you'll likely have to want both games already. Then it becomes a wash.

Then 3 months prices will naturally fall, once initial demand dies.

I'd love to support an equal performance AMD card just to stick it to nVidia. But I feel like AMD cards are less optimized and are more likely to have idiosyncrasies with certain games. E.g. Project Cars being virtually unplayable with AMD Cards.

 

[Metal Messiah.]

Ouch !

 

[Phaaze88]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGpzf0uHuCc

Yep. Nothing to really get excited over.
Huh. And here I was thinking that the Super models would at least MATCH the next card up. Nope. Although close, but not quite.
Pricing still not great.

My 1080Ti, a 2 year old product is still a beast. Yay?

 

[lux1109]

Will NVIDIA ever stop "milking" it's customers ?

 

[digitalgriffin]

I'd love to support an equal performance AMD card just to stick it to nVidia. But I feel like AMD cards are less optimized and are more likely to have idiosyncrasies with certain games. E.g. Project Cars being virtually unplayable with AMD Cards.

I didn't know project cars was unplayable on AMD. The frame rates seem decent at 1440p

https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/project-cars-2-performance-benchmarks,review-34163-5.html

 

[Metal Messiah.]

AMD has their feet in the cement. To lower price on launch would pretty much admit defeat. So they have egg on their face either way. (And lowering prices on launch would likely not make their AIB partners too happy either.)

Likely what will happen is AMD will offer a 2 game bundle. It's less enticing than a price break, but it will help.

That's what I also think. I doubt AMD is going to lower the price of their upcoming NAVI GPUs. Doing that will strike a detrimental blow to AMD themselves. A Game bundle seems like a reasonable offer, but even Nvidia is providing 2 free games, Wolfenstein: Youngblood and Control, both of which will launch with support for RTX ray tracing.

 

[jfizzle4321]

I didn't know project cars was unplayable on AMD. The frame rates seem decent at 1440p

https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/project-cars-2-performance-benchmarks,review-34163-5.html

I'm sure the problems were fixed by now. But at the time of release, PCars ONE, the first Project Cars, had problems with AMD.

For those who have AMD GPUs :: Project CARS General Discussions

I asked the big boss Ian Bell the permission to post what he said about AMD's putting the blame on SMS for the perf's problem We've provided AMD with 20 keys for game testing as they work on the driver side. But you only have to look at the lesser hardware in the consoles to see how optimised we...

steamcommunity.com

 

[King_V]

And it was AMD's fault?

 

[renz496]

The RTX-2070 Super is just an upgrade over the RTX-2070, but the RTX-2060 is roughly same performance increase for the price increase. I've said it in some other places, but if Nvidia had released this originally, they would have been praised instead of ridiculed for the prices. Also, its nice for new buyers, but it sucks for everyone else, especially Turing early adopters. Thats gonna leave a bad taste in some people's mouths.

to be honest i don't know why turing early adopter need to feel bad about this. something like this has happen in GPU world for a very long time now. remember when nvidia coming out with 500 seires only 6 months after 400 series launch? yeah GTX580 was supposed to be what GTX480 should have been since the very beginning but back then no one say that it will upset GTX480 owner because nvidia release GTX580 and GTX570. especially with GTX570 because it has the same performance as GTX480 but the price is $150 cheaper. in one way it's like some people did not want new and improved product being release so they will not going to feel bad with their early purchase.

 

[renz496]

Will NVIDIA ever stop "milking" it's customers ?

what did you expect? nvidia is profit making company. so is AMD. that's why if you have been aware about it AMD not interested moving the performance to the lower price point either. they just do it because the pressure from nvidia.