Rude Awakening & Shrapnel Blast

[Guest]

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Hi,

While playing, a friend of mine had 2 questions yesterday, that he would
like to be confirmed by you guys (he won't believe me 100%... 😱)

1) When you play Rude Awakening and choose its 2nd ability (until end of
turn, lands you control become 2/2 creatures that are still lands), do these
lands have haste (in other words can they attack immediately) and did they
really "come into play"? My guess is no, they did not "come into play",
which is why they have haste.

2) Can you sacrifice an indestructible artifact as an additional cost to
play Shrapnel Blast? My guess is yes, because you are not trying to destroy
it, you're only sacrificing it.

Thanks in advance.

Eerie Teferi

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"Eerie Teferi" <info@localimpact.com> writes:
> While playing, a friend of mine had 2 questions yesterday, that he would
> like to be confirmed by you guys (he won't believe me 100%... 😱)

And he believes random people on the Internet more?

> 1) When you play Rude Awakening and choose its 2nd ability (until end of
> turn, lands you control become 2/2 creatures that are still lands), do these
> lands have haste (in other words can they attack immediately) and did they
> really "come into play"? My guess is no, they did not "come into play",
> which is why they have haste.

Those lands do not have haste, and they did not come-into-play-again
in any way. Any of those permanents that you have controlled since the
beginning of your most recent turn can attack and use activated
abilities with the tap symbol in the cost. Any of those permanents
that you haven't controlled that long (such as a land you just played
this turn) cannot attack or use tap-symbol activated abilities. Note
that most lands' mana abilities have the tap-symbol in the cost, so
you can't even tap one for mana if you played it that turn and it's
now a creature.

> 2) Can you sacrifice an indestructible artifact as an additional cost to
> play Shrapnel Blast? My guess is yes, because you are not trying to destroy
> it, you're only sacrificing it.

Sure thing. Indestructible just stops things that say "destroy" (such
as cards, abilities, or the game rules talking about what happens to
creatures with lethal damage).

--
Peter C.
"Data! That was *not* funny!"
-- Geordi, Star Trek: Generations

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Eerie Teferi wrote:
> Hi,
>
> While playing, a friend of mine had 2 questions yesterday, that he would
> like to be confirmed by you guys (he won't believe me 100%... 😱)
>
> 1) When you play Rude Awakening and choose its 2nd ability (until end of
> turn, lands you control become 2/2 creatures that are still lands), do these
> lands have haste (in other words can they attack immediately) and did they
> really "come into play"? My guess is no, they did not "come into play",
> which is why they have haste.

Lands do come into play, when they are played. They do not come into
play when they are turned into creatures. But note, that a land that has
come into play and turns into a creature the same turn does not have
haste, and so can not attack.

> 2) Can you sacrifice an indestructible artifact as an additional cost to
> play Shrapnel Blast? My guess is yes, because you are not trying to destroy
> it, you're only sacrificing it.
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Eerie Teferi
>
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 08:27:55 GMT, "Eerie Teferi"
<info@localimpact.com> wrote:

>1) When you play Rude Awakening and choose its 2nd ability (until end of
>turn, lands you control become 2/2 creatures that are still lands), do these
>lands have haste (in other words can they attack immediately) and did they
>really "come into play"? My guess is no, they did not "come into play",
>which is why they have haste.

Rude Awakening dosn't cause the lands to come into play again. It
changes their type (adds "Creature" to it), and gives them a value for
power/toughness - the lands are still the same objects (important!),
just slightly edited.

Secondly; no, they don't have haste unless explicitly given by an
effect. They don't really need it either - quote from the comp rules:
**
Declare Attackers
.... Only creatures can attack, and the following creatures can't
attack: ... creatures the active player didn't control continuously
since the beginning of the turn (except those with haste). ...
**
Note though, that the player does not have to have controlled the
creature _as_a_creature_ since the beginning of the turn - it is the
object, not the "creature" that is referred to. If you controlled a
land since the beginning of your turn and then turns it into a
creature, then it does _not_ have "summoning sickness" and can attack
and use tap abilities.

Of course if you didn't control it since the beginning of your turn,
and it then becomes a creature (without haste) - then it _does_ have
"summoning sickness" and can't attack or tap (even for the lands mana
ablility).

>2) Can you sacrifice an indestructible artifact as an additional cost to
>play Shrapnel Blast? My guess is yes, because you are not trying to destroy
>it, you're only sacrificing it.

Your guess is right.

Indestructible
If a permanent is indestructible, rules and effects can't destroy it.
Such permanents are not destroyed by lethal damage, and they ignore
the lethal-damage state-based effect (see rule 420.5c). Rules or
effects may cause an indestructible permanent to be sacrificed, put
into a graveyard, or removed from the game.

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Eerie Teferi sez:

<<
>
>1) When you play Rude Awakening and choose its 2nd ability (until end of
>turn, lands you control become 2/2 creatures that are still lands), do these
>lands have haste (in other words can they attack immediately) and did they
>really "come into play"? My guess is no, they did not "come into play",
>which is why they have haste.
>
>>

No, they DON'T have haste. Neither, however, did they just "come into play".
Nothing that triggers off of things coming into play triggers off of lands
changing to creatures. The land-creatures can attack if they've been
controlled by their current controller continuously since the beginning of the
turn, just like any other creature (which means if you put a land into play
before playing RA, that land-creature can't attack or tap). Whether the
land-creatures have been creatures for all of that time is irrelevant.

<<
>2) Can you sacrifice an indestructible artifact as an additional cost to
>play Shrapnel Blast? My guess is yes, because you are not trying to destroy
>it, you're only sacrificing it.
>>

Exactly correct. But, remember, that the indestructible artifact will be put
into its owner's graveyard, because it's not being destroyed, and
indestructibility can't affect sacrifice...


----
If [Michael Moore] makes a mistake in [F 9/11], it's not that he's careless
with the facts ... It's that he suggests Bush is the cause of our problems,
when, in fact, Bush is just the result.
--The Libertarian Lessons of Fahrenheit 9/11

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 08:27:55 GMT, Eerie Teferi <info@localimpact.com> wrote:
>While playing, a friend of mine had 2 questions yesterday, that he would
>like to be confirmed by you guys (he won't believe me 100%... 😱)
>
>1) When you play Rude Awakening and choose its 2nd ability (until end of
>turn, lands you control become 2/2 creatures that are still lands), do these
>lands have haste

Does it say they do? No.

>(in other words can they attack immediately)

That's a quite different question: _if_ you've controlled the land since your
latest turn began, it can attack if it's a creature, whether or not it has
haste. So lands you played -that turn- can't attack. But any you had since
before your turn started are fine about attacking or tapping, once they are
creatures.

>and did they really "come into play"?

Nope; nothing came into play, nothing left play. The Rude Awakening went from
the stack to the graveyard directly; the lands already in play became land
creatures already in play.

>2) Can you sacrifice an indestructible artifact as an additional cost to
>play Shrapnel Blast?

Yes, of course.

>My guess is yes, because you are not trying to destroy
>it, you're only sacrificing it.

Correct, exactly. It can't have anything that specifies "destroy" affect
it, which includes the rule about lethally-damaged creatures, but does NOT
include anything that specifies 'sacrifice', 'return to hand', 'tap', etc.,
or other things that aren't 'destroy'.

(Yes, 'sacrifice' and 'destroy' both take it from in-play to the graveyard.
But that does NOT mean they are in any way the same action.)

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Thank you all for your feedback.
You convinced my friend, by the way... 😱)

And we both learned a small but important thing that we both overlooked:
"So lands you played -that turn- can't attack."

Thanks. 😱)

Eerie Teferi

 

[peter]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"Eerie Teferi" <info@localimpact.com> wrote in message news:<fvYWc.224840$TH3.11043957@phobos.telenet-ops.be>...
> Thank you all for your feedback.
> You convinced my friend, by the way... 😱)
>
> And we both learned a small but important thing that we both overlooked:
> "So lands you played -that turn- can't attack."


Yes, one way to look at it is that *permanents*, including lands,
artifacts and enchantments, *all* have 'summoning sickness'. It's
only creatures that care about it.

So, if the permanent isn't a creature, you don't care. If it is (or
*becomes*) a creature, you do care.

If you look at it that way, it makes a little more sense.
Peter