Run 4690k like a 4690T most of the time?

[CaptainCalm]

So, I'm building a lowish power server machine in a Streacom F1C Evo case (purchased case already). The machine is going to act as a small 24/7 server machine for my home most of the time and therefore I'd like it to be low power. It's server requirements are basically that it will run a web server for a maximum of 20 concurrent users (nothing too major, the pages will be JSP, the site will allow users to stream one 64bps mp3 at a time if they like, but the chances are that only one or two users will be doing that, the rest will be viewing text pages – most of the time there will probably be not much activity on this server), a DLNA server for occasionally streaming music and films, file server / NAS (due to room this box is going to replace my NAS box), and also it will run a minecraft server (max 10 users). However, every now and then, when I go on holiday, I might want to take it with me as "gaming" machine - but I'm not expecting much from it on this front (I'd move the web server over to my main rig, that I'd leave on while on holiday). I would like it to be able to run minecraft (in addition to the minecraft server running) and perhaps something like splinter cell blacklist on low to medium settings (obviously not at the same time as minecraft, but possibly at the same time as the minecraft server). Oh yeah, and I might turn the AC Wifi adapter into a wifi hotspot (Ethernet connection on the MB will be plugged into my switch) and it will probably be running Netflix and the like from time to time.

So, here is the problem, the Streacom F1C Evo is small, so it can’t fit a discrete GPU in it - I couldn't go for a case that is bigger than the Streacom F1C Evo, because I don't have the room to put a bigger case anywhere without my wife getting upset (I already have a number of computers) and I would like it to be semi portable.

On the CPU front, I figure the right path is Intel. Intel CPU’s are more efficient. The low power AMD’s don’t have enough single thread grunt for my liking and the higher power AMD CPU’s draw too much power. Really what I need to satisfy all requirements is a Skylake CPU, but I can't have one of those right now, so I need a current alternative. The thing is, when the Skylake CPU's are out, I'll probably change the MB, CPU and RAM in the Streacom machine (could add the RAM to my main rig, and sell the MB and CPU) so I'm looking to go as budget as possible on the CPU to minimise loss.

I figure that an i3 4360T might work (low power), but then I'm thinking the 4360 would be better when “gaming” (higher power though). The thing is though, will an i3 be quick enough? If not then I should look at an i5. If I’m going for an i5 then a 4690T might be the ticket. The problem I have with that is the 4690K isn’t that much different in price. So the question is, what are the differences between the 4690K and the 4690T? What I mean by that question is can I make the 4690K run at low TDP just like a 4690T by simply dropping the clock multiplier in the BIOS? If so, then that might be a solution; I’ll run it like a 4690T most of the time and then set the clock multiplier back to auto when I’m on holiday and want to play some games.

The iGPU part of the CPU is clearly going to be the bottleneck on the gaming front, which is why I wish I could buy a Skylake processor now (or even a Broadwell with Iris Pro), I know it still wouldn’t be great, but it would be better. It’s a shame that the 4770R isn’t available on an 1150 socket!

My current intended build spec is:

MB: Asus Z97I-Plus Mini ITX
RAM: 8GB (2 x 4) 1600MHz Corsair Vengeance low profile (9-9-9-24) (same type of RAM that is in my gaming rig)
CPU: ??? (needs HD4600 at a minimum)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-L9i Low Profile (keep things quiet)
Case fan: 60mm Noctua NF-A6x25 FLX (keep things quiet)
SSD: 128GB Toshiba HG6 (for O/S)
HDD: 2 x 1TB 2.5” WD WD10JFCX WD Red NASware (In RAID 1 configuration)
PSU: Streacom 150W
DVD: LG GA50N

I know I’m asking a lot of things from the machine that run at cross-purposes, but I think it should be doable. The issue is which CPU can I get away with as a temporary solution until the Skylake CPU’s are out?

Any advice is welcome.

 

[i7Baby]

Try any low power cpu with HD4600 eg i5 4590

 

[fatboyslimerr]

Save money on the motherboard and get a H97, then get the i5 4690T. i5 4690K + Z-series motherboard is really for overclocking past 4Ghz and not really for underclocking/undervolting. Better to get the H97 that still supports RAID etc and the lower power 4690T.

 

[CaptainCalm]

@i7Baby: Interestingly the i3-4360T has the HD4600... the question is, do I risk going for the i3 (I'm wondering if it struggle with what I ask of it at times?) or do I spend more and go for the 4590T (£45 more).

@fatboyslimerr: Thanks, you make some good points. I agree, the H97 (which I hadn't considered before) would be the better choice, but, I'm planning on buying the parts from Scan (I've always been happy with them), and I don't think they sell any H97 mini ITX boards. 🙁 So, I'll have to stick with the Z97. On the otherhand though, the difference in price between an mItx H97 and an mItx Z97 isn't massive, so it isn't the end of the world.

So the question now is (given that I'm planning on getting rid of the CPU and motherboard in a year or so), do I go for an i3-4360T, or spend the extra and go for the i5-4590T?

On the one hand, I am loathed to spend more than I need to on the CPU given that I'm planning on changing it when an appropriate Skylake CPU hits the shops - this makes me think that going for the i3-4360T might be the way to go (will it struggle though?); on the other hand, if I get an i5-4590T, I might find that it does the job well enough that I don't need to go for the Skylake after all - might be able to hold out for Cannonlake.

I hate these kinds of decisions! 🙁

Anyway, opinions welcome.

 

[i7Baby]

A server won't need much gpu power. the i3 would be fine.

 

[CTurbo]

My vote goes to the 4440s, 4460s, 4570s, or 4590s on a H97 motherboard. Keep in mind that the i5 4570t is actually a dual core cpu with hyperthreading.

 

[CaptainCalm]

Ok, here's the thing, I have realised a few things. If I want to add three 2.5" drives into the Streacom F1C EVO, then the maximum recommended CPU cooler height is 24mm - good luck finding a quality CPU cooler that height! The lowest profile really quiet cooler I can find is the Zalman CNPS2X, but that is 27mm. So, if I shove that in then I expect it will be really tight and airflow will be compromised and hence the CPU will run hotter. This makes me think that I need to minimise the TDP of the processor. I also realised that Scan do sell the H97I-PLUS MB, but it doesn't have wifi or bluetooth, so, for that reason, I'm thinking I'll spend the extra £17 and go for the Z97I-PLUS (it has AC wifi and bluetooth 4.0).

So, in short, I think I'm going to go for the i3-4360T (35W TDP) and the Z97I-PLUS. Since it is such a low power CPU, I'm also going to risk going for the Zalman CNPS2X (there are some Asaka coolers, but I've always found them to be far louder than Zalman coolers, so I ruled them out). The only other thing I could do is, buy something like the Noctua NH-L9i, take the fan off it and build an air guide to the exhaust fan on the case, but something tells me that is a bigger risk than getting the Zalman cooler, so I'll stick with the Zalman for now.

Anyway, I'll let you all know what happens 😀

 

[RobCrezz]

Any of them i5s will clock down and lower voltage when not utilized much, and use a similar amount of power (same architecture). The differences come from when they are under heavy load and how high they can turbo up (and if the IGPU uses any additional power).

 

[CaptainCalm]

Thanks to everyone who replied, I've really appreciated it

So, this is the final spec that I ordered:

MB: Asus Z97I-Plus Mini ITX
RAM: 8GB (2 x 4) 1600MHz Corsair Vengeance low profile (9-9-9-24) (same type of RAM that is in my gaming rig)
CPU: i3-4360T
CPU Cooler: Zalman CNPS2X 120W CPU Cooler
Case fan: 60mm Noctua NF-A6x25 FLX (keep things quiet)
SSD: 128GB Crucial M550 M.2 (CT128M550SSD4)
HDD: 2 x 1TB 2.5” WD WD10JFCX WD Red NASware (In RAID 1 configuration)
PSU: Streacom 150W
DVD: LG GA50N

I was worried about air-flow from the CPU cooler with having one 2.5" SSD and two 2.5" hard drives in the case with a cooler that is higher than the maximum recommended height, so I swapped out the 2.5" SSD with an M.2 version that sits under the Z97I-PLUS motherboard (Or at least I hope there is enough room under there for it, since the mount posts on the Streacom seem pretty short - guess I'll soon find out). Hopefully that change should be enough to keep it cool (removing the 2.5" SSD means that half the CPU cooler is now clear)... as long as the CPU cooler fits (i.e. the other side of the cooler doesn't hit the hard drive mounted below the DVD drive tray).

I still have some worries:
1) That the Zalman CPU cooler will be too high and will touch one of the WD HDD's.
2) That the Zalman CPU cooler will not be as quiet as I'd like (not a lot of options here if it isn't).
3) That the MB mounting posts are too short to fit the M.2 SSD underneath the MB.

Anway, as I said in a previous post, I'll let you all know what happens.

 

[CaptainCalm]

I thought I’d write a little bit about my build experience so far – if nothing else, people wanting to build a similar system will hopefully find this thread and learn from some of my mistakes.

First off, here is a list of the issues:

• 
  The first item I removed from the box from Scan was the Noctua NF-A6x25, as soon as I saw it, I realised it wasn’t going to work since it is 25mm wide! I should have guessed that from the product name, looked at the picture properly or looked at the product specifications before ordering it, but I didn’t. The problem is that the maximum the Streacom F1C can take for an exhaust fan is 10mm wide. This is entirely my fault and something that could have been prevented if I’d paid attention to the maximum exhaust fan width information (whoops). So, now I’ve ordered the 40mm version of the Noctua fan (it is 10mm wide).
  
  The biggest problem is the CPU fan, it is too high to allow for a second (or third) 2.5” drive (the drive(s) will hit the fan). At the same time, the fan doesn’t cool as well as I’d hoped. The system with the lid off idles at about 50 degrees. Interestingly with the lid on, I expected the idle temperature to rise, but it actually dropped by about 5 degrees – I have no explanation for this. I’m wondering if the addition of the 40mm exhaust fan (when it arrives) will bring the idle temperature down to somewhere in the 30’s (I’d be happy with that). I have been told that I might get better results if the exhaust fan pulls air in rather than pushes air out – I’ll test both ways and let you know. What I’d really like is to find a really quiet CPU cooler that is 24mm high or less, that is able to keep the system cool with a second 2.5” drive added. I’m tempted to try the Akasa 23.5mm low profile cooler, but I’m worried it will be too loud.
  
  As mentioned, the second 2.5” HDD will currently hit the CPU fan, so I cannot install it with the Zalman fan. This means that my plan of a RAID 1 mirror for the two drives is not going to be possible unless I can find a more suitable CPU cooler that will allow me to install the second WD NASware drive.
  
  The Crucial M550 M.2 drive gets really hot - It idles at around 62 degrees! However, the problem is a little worse than that… because it sits under the Z97I-PLUS, there is no way to provide it additional cooling via airflow and no space to add heat sinks. The idle temperature of this drive makes me wonder how long it will last, but we’ll see – perhaps I should have gone for the Sandisk alternative (but then again, perhaps that might run hot too?). I might stick some bent copper to the chip surfaces so that it interfaces with the base of the case using a weak spring mechanism. This would make the case act as a heat sink for the SSD (it would be a poor heat sink, but it might be enough to drop the temp to a more acceptable level).

That all said, the machine is running Ubuntu 14.04 64bit at the moment and aside from it running a bit hotter than I’d hoped (and aside from not being able to currently fit the second WD NASware drive) I’m happy with the build. It’s really quick, responsive and quiet. Would I do it again? Maybe; if the exhaust fan lowers the temps a fair amount and I can find a CPU cooler that is quiet but allows me to add in the second WD drive, then definitely. Anyway, I’ll keep this thread updated (or, maybe I should create a build thread with photo’s somewhere?) with results of further changes that I make (i.e. tests of the Noctua exhaust fan and test results of any other CPU cooler that I find).

 

[CaptainCalm]

Just thought I'd post a minor update.

The Noctua fan helped with keeping the system cooler by about 3 degrees idle (down to ~42) and 5 degrees load ( down to ~78 - still really high though!).

I then ordered some Coollaboratory Liquid Metal Pro thermal compound and a SilverStone NT07-115X cpu cooler. The good news is that this combination brings Idle to high 30s and more importantly load to a max of 60 degrees. I attribute a lot of this to changing the previous bad thermal paste that I used for the Liquid Metal Pro, since I believe the Zalman cooler should under normal circumstances out perform the SilverStone one. In addition, there is now enough room in the case for me to set up the two WD drives in RAID 1 (Mirror) configuration. The bad news is, this little machine now sounds like a quiet vaccum cleaner. The fan noise is far louder than is acceptable for a machine that is to be on 24/7 in the lounge - and it has a really annoying whining sound. I wouldn't have minded so much if it was more the sound of forced air, but the whining noise that is constantly changing pitch with fan speed is really annoying. So, I either need to go DIY on the cooling solution, or continue my search for a suitable cooler that produces less noise - any suggestions are very welcome.

A few words of caution regarding Liquid Metal Pro. Liquid Metal Pro is not only an outstanding thermal conductor, but it is also an outstanding electrical conductor, also as the name suggests, it is a liquid. So...
1) Be really careful with the application syringe as squirting this stuff places where it shouldn't go is just too easy (I had a close call when I accidentally squirted a very small amount over one of my RAM modules (lucking it missed the motherboard and hit the RAM casing and not any electronics - I wiped it off the casing carefully with kitchen roll). If it hits the electronics, wipe it off carefully and thoroughly - this isn't easy, if it's a really small amount, then try wiping it off carefully with kitchen roll, if it is larger amount, try drawing it away with a syringe before wiping it. Remember, if you leave any on the electronics you can probably kiss the electronics goodbye when you apply power.
2) Be careful with quantity - Liquid Metal Pro becomes less viscous when heated and so flows more easily. So use as small an amount as possible to cover the CPU heat exchanger surface and the same on the cooler base - there should be just enough to paint the surfaces so you can see a reflection (in the case of a copper cooler base, it should now be looking silver instead of copper), but not enough to form droplets or to allow for any visible liquid surface tension on either surface. Basically, if you tilt the surface and you see any running, you have applied too much. Remember, if you apply too much then at a minimum, you can kiss your MB and CPU goodbye!
3) If you find that it doesn't seem to take to a surface, then keep rubbing it around on that surface with a fibre free cotton bud; it will take eventually.
4) Do not use this thermal compound on CPU's that have an aluminium heat exchanger (i.e. some older CPU's - modern ones tend to be nickel plated copper) or on heat sinks that have an aluminium contact surface, it does not work with aluminium and it will only end in tears.
5) If you are in any doubt, don't use it, use a different thermal compound instead.
6) Over time, the CPU may cold-weld to the heat sink, if this happens, to separate them, twist the heat sink off the CPU do not just pull it off straight, as you'll likely to rip the heat exchanger off the top of the CPU.