I see people saying 60% isn't that huge. That is a very very nice jump in performance and with double the shaders and ROPs it isn't just about pure clock speeds that gets you the performance. Also you act like their won't clearly be a 5870x2 to compare to the 4870X2.
Lets not also forget these things are 40nm so overclocking headroom could through the roof.
Lets not also forget these things are 40nm so overclocking headroom could through the roof.
megamanx00
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60% faster than the RV770 is pretty good actually. Considering that the 4870X2 isn't always 100% faster than a single 4870 the RV870 should come close enough in performance and perhaps surpass it in some of the cases where crossfire does not scale well. Still, at 60% faster it should prove to be the fastest GPU and thus make the fastest single GPU card (taking the GTX285s current title as such). That will leave the GTX295 at the top until an X2 version of the 870 is launched.
lorik :
I was just about to write a price range of $220- $250
<-------------Thats a HOT price.
yeah but some rumor came a while ago, cant remember from where that the 5870 was gonna cost $300 and the inferior one, lets say "5850"
was gonna cost ~$260
again, it is just a rumor...
jennyh
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The 5870 should be about as fast as a gtx295. However, that is in dx9 games. In dx11 games the 5870 will of course blow the gtx295 away.
You have to remember it's not *all* about pure speed. If it were, we could still be arguing about how fast the old 8800gts's are in Unreal Tournament.
Think of it more like, the 5870 is faster and looks better too. For too long has quality been playing second fiddle to speed, but that is changing for the better with dx11.
You have to remember it's not *all* about pure speed. If it were, we could still be arguing about how fast the old 8800gts's are in Unreal Tournament.
Think of it more like, the 5870 is faster and looks better too. For too long has quality been playing second fiddle to speed, but that is changing for the better with dx11.
jennyh
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There really isn't that much of a gap between the 4870x2 and gtx295 already Nica. You're talking about 5% gap on fps totals in the 100's already.
This is why quality is much more important now. This is why dx11 is so much more important. If you can play games at 60fps then why bother with 'faster' when what you really want is better quality?
If we were playing Half life 1 at 400 fps or 410 fps, would we really care?
Quality is what the 5870 really brings. I personally think it will be as fast as a gtx295, but I know for a fact it will make games look much better.
This is why quality is much more important now. This is why dx11 is so much more important. If you can play games at 60fps then why bother with 'faster' when what you really want is better quality?
If we were playing Half life 1 at 400 fps or 410 fps, would we really care?
Quality is what the 5870 really brings. I personally think it will be as fast as a gtx295, but I know for a fact it will make games look much better.
jennyh
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I just want to say...
If you ever played far cry 1, or even well before that half life 1, or even Deus Ex etc...or hell even gran turismo 1 on the first playstation...you were happy. You thought you were gaming at amazing graphical levels.
All of those games would run on less than 1% of a 5870's power now, but would you be happy?
If you ever played far cry 1, or even well before that half life 1, or even Deus Ex etc...or hell even gran turismo 1 on the first playstation...you were happy. You thought you were gaming at amazing graphical levels.
All of those games would run on less than 1% of a 5870's power now, but would you be happy?
The_Blood_Raven
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If the 5870 doesn't make a 4870 X2 tap out, even a bit, then it isn't worth $300. My 4890s get extremely close when heavily overclocked.
That said, I don't see this performance being true as I have seen NOTHING to support anything less than 4870 X2 performance, even with "only" 1200 SP.
That said, I don't see this performance being true as I have seen NOTHING to support anything less than 4870 X2 performance, even with "only" 1200 SP.
No, i agree about the quality thing, its great I love better and better graphics.
I just think in directx11 the 5870 might be faster, but not in previous versions of
dx. Also, the 4870x2 and gtx 295 are not 5% away from each other... not even close to that, its more like 15%...
check reviews...
I agree it's pointless when over 60 fps i just wanted to add that...
I just think in directx11 the 5870 might be faster, but not in previous versions of
dx. Also, the 4870x2 and gtx 295 are not 5% away from each other... not even close to that, its more like 15%...
check reviews...
I agree it's pointless when over 60 fps i just wanted to add that...
The_Blood_Raven
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When you average the score together the GTX 295 comes out 5-10% faster than the 4870 X2.
Just a quick thought, since the new 9.8 drivers are supposed to give the 4870 X2 a 5-80% increase in performance, wouldn't it be about tying or even beating the GTX 295 by now or has there been any major increases in performance for nVidia too?
The_Blood_Raven
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Notice how poor the ATI drivers for The Last Remnant were at that time?
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-cards-charts-2009-high-quality/The-Last-Remnant,1459.html
Notice that the 4870 x2 still maxes it at an average of 60 FPS, but that benchmark nets the GTX 295 a 53% lead over the 4870 X2 (both totally maxing out the game).
Take out that screwed result and you will see what I mean:
GTX 295 total: 833.50
GTX 295 Last Remnant: 130.30
4870 X2 total: 723.70
4870 X2 Last Remnant: 60.80
GTX 295 fair total: 833.50 - 130.30 = 703.2
4870 X2 fair total: 723.70 - 60.80 = 662.9
Fair performance difference: 5.8%
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-cards-charts-2009-high-quality/The-Last-Remnant,1459.html
Notice that the 4870 x2 still maxes it at an average of 60 FPS, but that benchmark nets the GTX 295 a 53% lead over the 4870 X2 (both totally maxing out the game).
Take out that screwed result and you will see what I mean:
GTX 295 total: 833.50
GTX 295 Last Remnant: 130.30
4870 X2 total: 723.70
4870 X2 Last Remnant: 60.80
GTX 295 fair total: 833.50 - 130.30 = 703.2
4870 X2 fair total: 723.70 - 60.80 = 662.9
Fair performance difference: 5.8%
jennyh
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The gtx295 looked to be a lot faster at one point, but it was 1 or 2 games letting the 4870x2 down as Raven pointed out.
Right now, there is no way you'd buy a gtx295 at the price. It is 5% faster or so, but that is a drop in a very large ocean of fps.
I also agree with Raven on the 5870 vs 4870x2 point. If the 5870 isn't faster it will be a bit disappointing. I think and hope it will be. I've said all along that the 5870 will be on par with the gtx295 and the 5850 will be as good as a gtx285. If it turns out to be a lot worse then yes it will be disappointing in some ways, but being best at dx11 and average at dx9 is more important to ATI I think, for the future.
Right now, there is no way you'd buy a gtx295 at the price. It is 5% faster or so, but that is a drop in a very large ocean of fps.
I also agree with Raven on the 5870 vs 4870x2 point. If the 5870 isn't faster it will be a bit disappointing. I think and hope it will be. I've said all along that the 5870 will be on par with the gtx295 and the 5850 will be as good as a gtx285. If it turns out to be a lot worse then yes it will be disappointing in some ways, but being best at dx11 and average at dx9 is more important to ATI I think, for the future.
The_Blood_Raven
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I agree jenny, but without anyway to gauge DX11 performance it definitely is a "pass", until we can, if it doesn't deliver in the DX9/10 arena.
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