[SOLVED] Ryzen 1400 overclocking problem, possibly RAM related ?

[thomasst]

Hello,

I'm trying to overclock my Ryzen 1400, using AMD Ryzen Master software, and Cinebench R15 and Prime95 as testing apps.

My motherboard is ASRock Fatal1ty AB350 Gaming K4, and total RAM is 16GB - two pairs of 4GB each, one pair is Corsair Vengeance 3000 MHz, other is Kingston Fury 3200 MHz. Together they run at 2933 MHz with XMP enabled.

After a few BSODs, I managed to get the system stable at the clock speed of 3.7 GHz and voltage at 1.3V. Cinebench render test went through properly, with the result cca. 15% better than at stock settings. However, tests with Prime95 showed errors within the first minute.

What is interesting to note here is that when I disabled XMP and restored RAM clock speeds to 2133 MHz, errors would no longer appear, at least not in the first five minutes.

What could possibly be an issue here and how should I proceed?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Amddefector]

Hello,

I'm trying to overclock my Ryzen 1400, using AMD Ryzen Master software, and Cinebench R15 and Prime95 as testing apps.

My motherboard is ASRock Fatal1ty AB350 Gaming K4, and total RAM is 16GB - two pairs of 4GB each, one pair is Corsair Vengeance 3000 MHz, other is Kingston Fury 3200 MHz. Together they run at 2933 MHz with XMP enabled.

After a few BSODs, I managed to get the system stable at the clock speed of 3.7 GHz and voltage at 1.3V. Cinebench render test went through properly, with the result cca. 15% better than at stock settings. However, tests with Prime95 showed errors within the first minute.

What is interesting to note here is that when I disabled XMP and restored RAM clock speeds to 2133 MHz, errors would no longer appear, at least not in the first five minutes.

What could possibly be an issue here and how should I proceed?

Thanks in advance!

Unmatched memory kits are never a good idea under normal circumstances. Overclocking the cpu memory controller with unmatched memory is a lot worse and overclocking the cpu on top of that is a disaster. Try with just the one memory kit. Also that cpu max supported memory speed is 2666. I would atleast try and get the memory stable before messing with cpu.

 

[Karadjgne]

First gen Ryzen do not like 4 sticks of ram at all. That's where the instability comes from. You'd be better with 2400 manual or possibly 2666MHz.

The cpu is 2666MHz Tested, not approved. First gen can handle 3200MHz without issue usually, with 2x sticks and updated bios/Agesa files.

 

[thomasst]

Thanks for the tips - it was an oversight on my part, I wasn't aware of these limitations that 1st gen Ryzens have.

With all that in mind, I'm less and less inclined to invest any more money in my now 4,5-year-old rig. I'd need a new CPU cooler for overclocking and I've already wasted money on RAM modules I shouldn't have bought. Not to mention that I'm planning to get a NVMe SSD that nobody is sure if my old board will support at all...

In case I'd rather buy a whole new rig, where does that leave me? These new generations of Ryzen seem like a bit of an overkill for my needs (a lower-to-mid range CPU, kinda like what 1400 was when it came out, perhaps a little better). If I were looking for a cca. 200 EUR CPU and a cca. 100-150 EUR motherboard, could I get it with AMD? Or should I go with Intel then?

 

[Amddefector]

Thanks for the tips - it was an oversight on my part, I wasn't aware of these limitations that 1st gen Ryzens have.

With all that in mind, I'm less and less inclined to invest any more money in my now 4,5-year-old rig. I'd need a new CPU cooler for overclocking and I've already wasted money on RAM modules I shouldn't have bought. Not to mention that I'm planning to get a NVMe SSD that nobody is sure if my old board will support at all...

In case I'd rather buy a whole new rig, where does that leave me? These new generations of Ryzen seem like a bit of an overkill for my needs (a lower-to-mid range CPU, kinda like what 1400 was when it came out, perhaps a little better). If I were looking for a cca. 200 EUR CPU and a cca. 100-150 EUR motherboard, could I get it with AMD? Or should I go with Intel then?

I'd say Intel are the best value for money at the moment. You can pick up a current 12th gen i5 for what you would pay for a 4 year old ryzen cpu. Or wait and see what amd have to offer in the near future.

 

[Karadjgne]

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-12400 2.5 GHz 6-Core Processor (€207.99 @ Mindfactory)
Motherboard: MSI PRO B660M-A DDR4 Micro ATX LGA1700 Motherboard (€171.47 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €379.46
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-01-23 17:34 CET+0100

That's roughly what you'd be looking at. Plan to add another €30+ to find a decent ATX. You won't be getting a €100-€150 mobo unless you can get something uber cheap, or simply not worth spending on such as the H610 which is a seriously chopped down board missing most of what allows the 12thgen to be better than 11thgen.

What I'd do is look on ebay. Sell both kits of your current ram, buy 1 kit of 3200MHz 2x8Gb and a used 2600-3600 and don't bother with OC, undervolt instead.

Ryzens are not Intel. They don't work the same way. They are an efficiency engine. More efficient you make them, faster they perform. A Ryzen at 60°C and 4.0GHz literally thinks faster than a Ryzen at 80°C and 4.0GHz. That equates to higher fps. Just bumping clockspeeds in Ryzen Master often has opposite results to what you want.

 

[thomasst]

That's roughly what you'd be looking at. Plan to add another €30+ to find a decent ATX

Hi, Karadjgne!

I just started a thread on the Systems subforum today and got the same advice!

Feel free to chime in there if you see it necessary. I was wondering about a different path, namely getting a Ryzen 5600X and a B550 motherboard. The CPU is more expensive, but that difference is largely offset by cheaper motherboards...

Yes, I'd like to choose a flashy PC case, I like nice aesthetics

 

[punkncat]

I have purchased two of the AB350-ITX boards of that Fatality series due to liking the feature set.
In my own experience with them, they would pull a pretty quick and dirty OC for my 1200 at ~3.8 @ 1.24V or so. I wasn't really able to get any RAM to run faster than ~29xx with it, in spite of it only having 2 slots. I was not successful at a meaningful OC with an R7 1700.

A couple of questions related to my own experience come to mind. I will first state that you need to pick and choose between your matched RAM, or purchase a matched set. As @Karadjgne has already mentioned, the Ryzen mobo likely won't OC as far on a 4x RAM setup as opposed to a 2x. This holds true even on my Taichi X370, which certainly has the power delivery for it.
The other aspect would be cooling. A stock cooler isn't going to perform well for an OC beyond the stock all core clocks. Some folks have better luck with it, but you should be considering better cooling.
Keep in mind that the CPU OC and the 'XMP' profile (RAM OC) are interconnected in a way such that you might be able to OC the CPU at such and such, and then when you OC the RAM and adjust voltage, suddenly it becomes unstable, and so forth the other way around as well.

The 3xx motherboards weren't particularly 'optimized' when they first came out. Pay close attention to the update notes on ASRock page to make sure you don't go beyond what will drop support on your 1xxx CPU (for now). There should be a couple of revisions over the base BIOS that help a lot with RAM compatibility, stability, and function.

Total side note. ASRock is rolling out BETA BIOS that will allow for them to operate with 5xxx. I have not seen it for the Fatality boards yet. It may or may not happen based on the size of the BIOS chips, along with other factors but certainly could be worth a wait and see for a moment. Beyond that aspect, that board will support up to 3xxx with BIOS updates that would be a very meaningful update to that system.

 

[Karadjgne]

Heh, cases are personal. Mine is mITX, plain as it gets, no rgb other than what's native to the mobo. And so was my old pc, a Fractal Design R5. So what some consider ugly boxes, others consider aesthetically pleasing. Flashy lighting (against all common belief) does nothing more than add expense, a bright red sports car doesn't drive any faster than the same car with an ugly brown paint job.

So it's on you to decide your own personal taste, you are the one who has to look at the case on the daily, build in it, repair in it, deal with it.

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Some ideas of possibilities.

 

[thomasst]

So it's on you to decide your own personal taste, you are the one who has to look at the case on the daily, build in it, repair in it, deal with it.

True!

My current rig is in a Corsair case, I forgot the model but the front looks like an oven, with vertical grilles and red light from the fans behind
Looks good with red and black motherboard inside though.

Hey, what do you think about the Ryzen - B550 combination as an alternative to i5-12400? Any insights?

 

[thomasst]

The other aspect would be cooling. A stock cooler isn't going to perform well for an OC beyond the stock all core clocks. Some folks have better luck with it, but you should be considering better cooling.
Keep in mind that the CPU OC and the 'XMP' profile (RAM OC) are interconnected in a way such that you might be able to OC the CPU at such and such, and then when you OC the RAM and adjust voltage, suddenly it becomes unstable, and so forth the other way around as well.

Thanks for chiming in! Yes, I share your impression that 3xxx mobos weren't very optimized for overclocking. Perhaps due to them being the first generation on AM4 after all...
Still, I updated my BIOS to 4.x, I didn't see the need to go further. Before the update I couldn't even increase RAM speed beyond 2133 MHz.

And yes, I noticed that my CPU was heating up a lot with the voltage increased even slightly. This would warrant a better cooler, but on second thought I don't think I'll invest any more money in that rig, but rather build a whole new one. I might even recoup some of the money by selling my old rig - though I'll probably have to scavenge the GPU, for obvious reasons...

Now, whether to stay with AMD and get the last generation Zen, or choose one of the new Alder Lake Intel CPUs, is the first question...

 

[Koekieezz]

Still, I updated my BIOS to 4.x, I didn't see the need to go further. Before the update I couldn't even increase RAM speed beyond 2133 MHz.

it is better to update it to the latest bios, fear free it will give the system a better firmware, and possibly could overclock better, just like my friends B450M Steel Legend that cant even reach 3200mhz on his R5 2600, but after the latest update he could do 3200 C16, and after he swapped the cpu with R5 5600G, he could even do 3600 C16 with my help. His ram is mixed, 1x8GB Klevv Bolt X 3200mhz and 1x8GB Avexir Core Blue 2666mhz, both using the chip Hynix CJR-VKC (2666mhz jedec speed) (so lucky he got both different ram sticks but the same IC). i was so impressed that these ram could do 3600mhz CL16-16-19-19-36-66 1T GDM On in this motherboard. It seems like the motherboard bios updates giving it a fine wine to the motherboard itself as im so impressed that the motherboard could do that speed just by a simple bios update. Very Impressive on the mobo, ram, and cpu imc itself.

 

[thomasst]

...
It seems like the motherboard bios updates giving it a fine wine to the motherboard itself as im so impressed that the motherboard could do that speed just by a simple bios update. Very Impressive on the mobo, ram, and cpu imc itself.

Interesting, thanks for sharing.
So it's possible to increase RAM speed more than what the CPU specs say it supports?
That seems logical, because for instance, B550 motherboards support very high RAM speed, while I don't know of a Ryzen CPU that supports more than 3200 MHz, at least officially.
Anyway, I ought to try and see how my Ryzen 1400 fares when I take out the extra pair of RAM sticks - apparently I wasn't as lucky as you were with pairing different models. Officially it supports up to 2666 MHz, while the board supports up to 3200 MHz. I might have some luck with RAM speed, while I don't think I can overclock the CPU significantly without a better cooler.

 

[Koekieezz]

So it's possible to increase RAM speed more than what the CPU specs say it supports?

If motherboard is unlocked for ram overclocking = yes

Anyway, I ought to try and see how my Ryzen 1400 fares when I take out the extra pair of RAM sticks - apparently I wasn't as lucky as you were with pairing different models. Officially it supports up to 2666 MHz, while the board supports up to 3200 MHz. I might have some luck with RAM speed, while I don't think I can overclock the CPU significantly without a better cooler.

if you wanted to, you could buy cheap 3600mhz kits from Team (team dark z alpha, team t-create), Klevv (klevv bolt x and xr), and patriot (viper blackout and viper steel, the cl17 ones), and they have a good ic. I have the patriot blackout 3600 cl17 ones and paid it for cheap like regular loose timing 3600mhz, it got CJR die, and the timing could be decreased real good (out of my expectations). The point is why 3600? because you could fine tune it at the range between 3200-3533mhz with the latest bios in your board, and the kits i gave above usually use Hynix CJR and DJR, especially Klevv since they always use Hynix IC.

As an addition, cpu official supports mean that if the motherboard is locked completely no OC, the max speed is the max ram speed the cpu support on JEDEC table.

Here is some of my friend's Hynix CJR and DJR tuning i did myself:

R3 2200G + Klevv Bolt X 3600Mhz CL18 @3333 CL16 + MSi A320M Pro M2:

R3 2200G + Klevv Bolt XR 3600Mhz CL18 @3466 CL16 + X370M Pro4:

R5 5600G + 1x8GB Klevv Bolt X 3200Mhz CL16 + 1x8GB Avexir Core 2666Mhz (Both ram ic are Hynix CJR-VKC) @3600Mhz CL16 @1.4V (which is surprising that it is been tightened it still ran stable) + B450M Steel Legend: