Ryzen 1800x Overclocking: 3.9 GHz Wall

[Chris Houston]

Hi All,

I have a new system and have been playing around with the overclock the last few days and have been struggling to get the chip to 4GHz which is what i understand most of these chips can do. I am trying to work out if I have simply been unlucky with the chip or if I need to tweak some more settings (although there really isn't much to tweak these days!).

System Spec:

Ryzen 1800x
GA-AX370 Gaming 7 (rev.10 Bios)
32GB G.Skill Flare X 2400 cas 16
RX 480 8gb
Samsung 950 pro 512GB (OS drive)
Corsair 750 watt PSU
Windows 10 Pro

I have tried various permutations of all settings in the Bios advanced frequency, memory and voltage menus. I started by following the guide at https://overclocking.guide/gigabyte-ryzen-7-overclocking-guide/ and this booted me in to the system fine at 4GHz and allowed small FFTs in Prime 95 for over an hour but failed on blend after minutes. I thought this must be a memory issue so I ran memtest 86 overnight and no errors.

The following is my current stable overclock:

CPU @ 3.9 GHz (100bclk x 39)
RAM @ 2933 MHz (100bclk x 29.33 timings 20, 19, 19, 47)
Vcore: Auto - hovers around 1.35 V with a max of 1.38 V when in full tilt
SOC: 1.3 V
RAM: 1.35 V
Vcore Loadline Calibration: Turbo
XMP: disabled

I understand that the faster you can get your RAM the more efficient the Infinity fabric is that connects what are essentially two processors within the Ryzen 8-core chips. Therefore I have opted for slacker timings and higher speeds on the RAM. The system was actually notably nippier after overclocking RAM although still need to confirm via bench-marking.

If anyone can comment on my settings or give some guidance on how to improve stability in order to achieve 4 GHz it would be much appreciated.

 

[CountMike]

Since it's X model, did you try automatic OC ? That should show processors true capabilities.

 

[Chris Houston]

Hi Count Mike. No I haven't tried automatic OC if you are referring to the OC button on the mobo? My understanding is that manual clocking is the way to go to maximise your OC while keeping voltages low / safe. Haven't seen any reports on using the automatic feature. All the guides recommend manual clocking.

 

[ZRace]

Well, first of all, setting VCore to Auto is something I generally don't recommend when overclocking. Selecting a voltage manually can result in a cooler CPU @ the same performance, plus it will help eliminating a variable in troubleshooting.

For Ryzen CPUs, I'd recommend trying to stay at 1.35V VCore or lower for day to day usage. Up to 1.4V is still safe with a good cooling system (not only CPU must stay cool, but also the VRMs on the motherboard!)

First I'd try setting the VCore to 1.35V, test it and then gradually increase that value until you either hit a stable voltage or the 1.4V ceiling. You could still push further, but the risk of damaging your CPU is on you.
If you couldn't achieve a stable 4 GHz overclock using that method, I'd drop back to 1.35V and start trying out a higher BCLK with a lower multi to achieve the same speed (and then again increase VCore to see whether more voltage helps). Note that an increased BCLK will also increase RAM speed, so a crash might be due to the RAM.

If you've tried all of the above and it still doesn't work, meddling with the Loadline Calibration could be the solution - instead of setting it to Auto.

 

[CountMike]

Well, manual OC may be better but it also depends on many factors. Auto OC may not pull every ounce of performance but can give you good starting point on which you can improve manually once you find base point.
In my case, with my 1700x I can get only ~50Hz more with manual OC than what auto OC (TPU II) does (while completely stable) but without any fiddling with BIOS.

 

[Chris Houston]

Thanks ZRace. I have already done as you said and manually keyed in all voltages. I was able to boot and run blend tests in Prime no bother at 4 GHz with VCore 1.4v, SOC 1.3, CPU VDD18 2v, CPU VDDP +0.2v, load line calibration Turbo. This however failed when i tested large FFTs and more RAM. I tested RAM with memtest 86 to ensure my RAM is good. It also runs the voltage pretty high which I dont want to do 24/7 even although my temps havent exceeded the high 60's.

Running with auto on the VCore allows the voltage to throttle so you are not constantly sitting at a higher voltage, I understand this is not optimal for stability somtimes but if you can get that to be stable and voltage spikes are not too high then its preferable? My VCore average is 1.348v max 1.380v min 0.936v.

I have manually keyed in the SOC voltage to overclock my RAM as on auto this hovers around the 0.9v mark.

I have considered adjusting the BCLK however wasn't sure how this would effect the PCIe components and if it would be safe for my HDD / Graphics?

 

[CountMike]

BCLK will also raise PCIe, RAM and SATA (maybe other IOs) frequencies so unless you can manually set those to defaults, you may get instabilities or even lower RAM performance.

 

[Chris Houston]

Haven't seen a setting in the GA-AX370 bios that allows the PCIe (i'm using an M.2 950 pro SSD) so I have left the BCLK at 100 and focused on the multiplier. The RAM can be set independently of the CPU via the same BCLK with a lower multiplier so that wouldn't be an issue.

 

[CountMike]

But lowering RAM multiplier will also slow it down and with Ryzen loving faster RAM so much, it hardly pays to do it. At least your BCLK is adjustable, on my Asusit's not and keeps on showing 98.7 to 98.8 so it screws up total RAM and CPU frequency by that %age.

 

[Chris Houston]

Agreed - thats why I've opted for standard BCLK and higher RAM multiplier to overclock the RAM. I've got my GSkill Flare X 2400 MHz running at 2933 MHz (29.33 x 100) with slacker timings. I read that its better to go for faster speeds with slacker timings as that improves the speed of Infinity fabric. There is obviously a tipping point with the timings though, if you slacken them too much performance will reduce in certain bench-marks.

 

[CountMike]

Interesting reading: https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2017/07/14/memory-oc-showdown-frequency-vs-memory-timings?sf98152750=1

 

[Chris Houston]

Yeah I read that. There is a tipping point in the RAM speed vs tighter timings. In an ideal world I would have shelled out £600 for top of the range 3200MHz or higher RAM but that was out of my budget so I opted for RAM that is tested on Ryzen at a lower speed and over clocked it. Once I have fully checked I am stable at 2933 MHz 20-19-19-47 CR 1T I am going to try and tighten the timings up a bit.

This is also worth a watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFPxNAQeI8Y

 

[CountMike]

Reportedly, Samsung "b" die RAM is best for Ryzen (and others) and can OC like crazy although expensive and not easy to find, matched and chosen sets reaching incredible speeds. Here's some of them:

Single-rank:

Ballistix Elite 3466 MHz CL16 BLE2K8G4D34AEEAK 8Gb
KFA2 HOF4CXLBS3600K17LD162K 8Gb
Corsair CMK16GX4M2B3200C16 VERSION 4.31 [16-18-18-36 @ 1.35v]

Samsung OEM
8 GB M378A1K43BB1 CRC NON ECC UDIMM
8 GB M378A1K43BB2 CRC NON ECC UDIMM
8 GB M378A1K43BB2 CPB NON ECC UDIMM
8 GB M378A1K43BB2 CTD NON ECC UDIMM
8 GB M391A1K43BB1 CPB ECC UDIMM
8 GB M391A1K43BB1 CRC ECC UDIMM
8 GB M391A1K43BB1 CTD ECC UDIMM

GeiL Evo X (GEX416GB3200C16DC [16-16-16-36 @ 1.35v]
G.Skill Trident Z 3000 MHz CL14 F4-3000C14D-16GTZ 8Gb
G.Skill Flare X 3200 MHz CL14 F4-3200C14D-16GFX 8Gb
G.Skill Trident Z 3200 MHz CL14 F4-3200C14D-16GTZ 8Gb
G.Skill Trident Z 3200 MHz CL15 F4-3200C15D-16GTZ 8Gb
G.Skill Trident Z 3466 MHz CL16 F4-3466C16D-16GTZ 8Gb
G.Skill Trident Z 3600 MHz CL15 F4-3600C15D-16GTZ 8Gb
G.Skill Trident Z 3600 MHz CL16 F4-3600C16D-16GTZ 8 Gb
G.Skill Ripjaws V 3600 MHz CL16 F4-3600C16D-16GVK 8Gb
G.Skill Trident Z 3600 MHz CL17 F4-3600C17D-16GTZ 8Gb
G.Skill Trident Z 3733 MHz CL17 F4-3733C17D-16GTZ 8Gb
G.Skill Trident Z 3866 MHz CL18 F4-3866C18D-16GTZ 8Gb
G.Skill Trident Z 4000 MHz CL18 F4-4000C18D-16GTZ 8Gb
G.Skill Trident Z 4000 MHz CL19 F4-4000C19D-16GTZ 8Gb
G.Skill Trident Z 4133 MHz CL19 F4-4133C19D-16GTZ 8Gb
G.Skill Trident Z 4266 MHz CL19 F4-4266C19D-16GTZ 8Gb


Dual-rank:

Samsung OEM
16 GB M378A2K43BB1 CPB (CRC или CTD) NON ECC UDIMM
16 GB M391A2K43BB1 CPB (CRC или CTD) ECC UDIMM

 

[Chris Houston]

Yeah I think mine is Hynx although there is a ? next to it where i've seen the memory discussed. Not sure how to check if it is actually Hynx.

 

[ZRace]

As long as BCLK is below 105, the PCIe lanes won't switch to version 2.0 speeds and stay at 3.0, leaving performance untouched there. RAM will, as already said, increase frequency too. If that forces you to downclock your RAM, it's probably not worth it. But it might just work out.

Running 104 BCLK on my Ryzen 5 1600 currently. My RAM is also set to 2933 (a tad higher than that due to BCLK obviously) and it runs fine, it's also SK Hynix chips at slightly tighter timings.

 

[Chris Houston]

UPDATE: Prime has been running now for 30mins on custom blend test with 12GB of ram with CPU at 3.9 GHz and RAM at 2933 MHz 16-16-16-16-39 1T. Not bad for this RAM! If this is stable I think i'll leave it at that. Impressed with the RAM seeing as its probably Hynx and not Samsung B die. Might even try tightening the timings a bit more.

 

[Chris Houston]

ZRace i'll get current OC stable and then try bumping the BCLK up to 105. What are your other settings for reference? What mobo?

 

[ZRace]

I'll have to check the exact settings again when I get back to my PC, but going from memory I believe it was this:

R5 1600 @3.93GHz (103.4MHz * 38) - my miss, only 103.4 BCLK for me, worked out best
VCore 1.3625V
SOC voltage 1.15V
DRAM @2933MHz -> 2974MHz with 18-18-18-36 @1.35V

 

[CountMike]

Yeah I think mine is Hynx although there is a ? next to it where i've seen the memory discussed. Not sure how to check if it is actually Hynx.

As long as BCLK is below 105, the PCIe lanes won't switch to version 2.0 speeds and stay at 3.0, leaving performance untouched there. RAM will, as already said, increase frequency too. If that forces you to downclock your RAM, it's probably not worth it. But it might just work out.

Running 104 BCLK on my Ryzen 5 1600 currently. My RAM is also set to 2933 (a tad higher than that due to BCLK obviously) and it runs fine, it's also SK Hynix chips at slightly tighter timings.

Try with this: http://www.softnology.biz/files.html

 

[Chris Houston]

Thanks CountMike will check. In terms of the overclocking this guide https://overclocking.guide/gigabyte-ryzen-7-overclocking-guide/ suggests that VSOC can be bumped up to 1.35v on the GA-AX370 Gaming 7 board. What is the current consencus on safe VSOC? Is there a consensus? I am currently sitting at 1.35v and what to check this is safe

 

[CountMike]

AMD says 1.425 - 1.450, depending who you ask but earlier versions of my BIOS were regularly pushing 1.5v if left on auto or high LLc. I didn't like that of course although it was just transient voltage.

 

[Chris Houston]

AMD says 1.425 - 1.450, depending who you ask but earlier versions of my BIOS were regularly pushing 1.5v if left on auto or high LLc. I didn't like that of course although it was just transient voltage.

I think you are referring to the VCore rather than the SOC voltage? I've seen a few posts saying dont go over 1.2v but they were from ages ago.

 

[CountMike]

Yes, right, I'm sticking to 1.1 manual and even than it jumps around by few mVolts, higher didn't get me anything good.

 

[Chris Houston]

I've needed to bump the SOC voltage up to get the ram stable - sitting at 1.3v not 1.35v as I stated above. Cant seem to find any recent data on safe SOC operating voltages. Would be nice to know this is safe.

 

[Chris Houston]

Update - this Flare x ram is impressive given it is Hynx. Testing it at 3,074 Mhz (100.25 x 30.66) and so far its getting through Prime custom blend with 18 GB of Ram utilised. Had to slacken the timings to 18-17-17-39 1T. Still need to run memtest but looking good!

I cant seem to change the command rate on this board. Dialled in 2T in the Bios but CPUZ and HWiNFO show 1T. No idea which is telling the truth. I'd imagine the BIOS?