Ryzen 2700x NOW or wait for Ryzen 3800X / 3700X ?

[Ransome]

Hey,
Amazon sells Ryzen 2700x NOW - for 264$.
However all the other parts for a new build are expensive. They even increased the RAM I wanted from 215 to 250$.

I am planning an upgrade from i5-3570K. My rig is in the signature.
I have waited a long time with this new build - so I want to have the best and latest for the best future-proofing possible. And perhaps some upgrade-ability of the CPU.

So right now I am trying to choose between:
Intel i9-9900K (that is out of stock and overpriced 580$ Amazon) VS Ryzen 2700X (264$ Cyber Monday- usually 315$) VS Ryzen 3800X (Release date?? Price?) VS Intel 10th gen (???)

I read that 3700x/3800x is coming soon and will have massive 12c/24t and 16c/32t
I was hoping to finish the build around March - before DMC5 is released.
However, I read somewhere that Ryzen 3700x/3800x will release around April 2019 because the last one released at this time.

I feel like it's worth the wait, it's not a long one too.
I will use it mostly for Gaming at 4K (and some 1440p)

 

[stevenjemint]

Everything about the Ryzen 3700x is speculation at the moment, including the release date. If things dont go as planned you could end up waiting until Q3/Q4 2019 so the question you have to ask yourself is do you mind waiting?

 

[Ransome]

Everything about the Ryzen 3700x is speculation at the moment, including the release date. If things dont go as planned you could end up waiting until Q3/Q4 2019 so the question you have to ask yourself is do you mind waiting?

I could, if it's worth it. If the price will be similar. The performance boost will be a big leap. Better cooler. Better future proofing and more advanced fresh architecture, etc.

And yes, it could delay, but isn't Q1-2 more likely? AMD didn't release a major CPU since April 2018. They already announced/teased this. I don't think they will be late.

If the performance leap will be significant - and I think 12C or 16C is a big deal (if it's true)- It seems not waiting these few months is a mistake. Especially if the 3800x/3700x will big a big step and triumph over i9-9900K.

Are there any facts regarding AMD next gen CPUs?

Also- I can still go with i9-9900K (or even see if they come up with something better) - but so far it's not returning to stock and price hasn't relaxed yet.

 

[drea.drechsler]

There's nothing but rumors and 'leaks', no real facts yet about Zen2. The last I read was maybe 10-13% IPC uplift from Zen+ and stock clocks up to 4.5Ghz.

If your strategy is to wait, Intel is also said to be prepping a 10 core chip to compete in the same market space as R7-2700X or Zen2 (as opposed to threadripper?). No information on clocks, pricing, TDP (it's gonna have to be on their 14nm process so expect 'toasty hot'), etc. but it's rumored to feature a dual ring-bus which tickles some peoples fancy quite a bit.

All rumors... you can expect more rumors and maybe even more fantasy product releases, like these semi-unobtainable 9900K's, from them in the future. All are tried and true tactics that aim to 'freeze' the market and keep people waiting.

Point is: you'll always have reason/excuse to wait for the next one. You need to focus on a logical reason to get what's available. For someone kind of borderline in need of greater processing power, the BEST reason to jump on Ryzen right now is that these processors are CHEAP. Yes, consider them throwaway for moment and remember that the motherboard you put a 2700 in today will accept the '3700/3800' of tomorrow. It's an easy pill to swallow when the processor is so cheap and all you have to do is pop it out and pop in the new one without even re-installing an OS.

EDIT: You might be interested in this, even though a few months old already it's probably still relevant.
https://wccftech.com/amd-zen-2-ryzen-8-core-16-thread-cpu-leak/
Interesting comment by Dr. Lisa Su..."Our Zen 2 design is now complete and we will be sampling to our customers later this year." That was in September she was quoted! Add in they reliably released Zen 1000 and Zen 2000 product lines on schedule I think they'll hit the mark here too.

 

[huntlong]

I hate waiting too but at 1440p your i5 shouldn’t be holding you back too much in very many games. I’d try waiting and seeing what happens. I jumped the gun and got a 7700k then intel released 6 core i7’s not long after to compete with Ryzen and I regret that purchase. But it’s not like an 8th or 9th gen processor or even a current Ryzen processor will be compeletely obsoleted when the next generation of processors come out; so if you just can’t wait, upgrading now wouldn’t be the end of the world.

 

[Ransome]

There's nothing but rumors and 'leaks', no real facts yet about Zen2. The last I read was maybe 10-13% IPC uplift from Zen+ and stock clocks up to 4.5Ghz.

If your strategy is to wait, Intel is also said to be prepping a 10 core chip to compete in the same market space as R7-2700X or Zen2 (as opposed to threadripper?). No information on clocks, pricing, TDP (it's gonna have to be on their 14nm process so expect 'toasty hot'), etc. but it's rumored to feature a dual ring-bus which tickles some peoples fancy quite a bit.

All rumors... you can expect more rumors and maybe even more fantasy product releases, like these semi-unobtainable 9900K's, from them in the future. All are tried and true tactics that aim to 'freeze' the market and keep people waiting.

Point is: you'll always have reason/excuse to wait for the next one. You need to focus on a logical reason to get what's available. For someone kind of borderline in need of greater processing power, the BEST reason to jump on Ryzen right now is that these processors are CHEAP. Yes, consider them throwaway for moment and remember that the motherboard you put a 2700 in today will accept the '3700/3800' of tomorrow. It's an easy pill to swallow when the processor is so cheap and all you have to do is pop it out and pop in the new one without even re-installing an OS.

EDIT: You might be interested in this, even though a few months old already it's probably still relevant.
https://wccftech.com/amd-zen-2-ryzen-8-core-16-thread-cpu-leak/
Interesting comment by Dr. Lisa Su..."Our Zen 2 design is now complete and we will be sampling to our customers later this year." That was in September she was quoted! Add in they reliably released Zen 1000 and Zen 2000 product lines on schedule I think they'll hit the mark here too.

You are right. There's always going to be something new around t he corner and an excuse to wait. That's a good point. But I think upgrading / building - is also a matter of good timing. This time I feel like I have a GOOD excuse to hold on. It seems AMD Ryzen 3800x/3700x Zen 2 is truly coming soon.
My logic is that I've waited so long.I want to have the best and latest. To carry me through many years of great gaming and better support future GPUs and games.
That article, Ryzen's past release schedules, and the fact Ryzen 2700x came down aggressively in price to 264$ in Cyber Monday - all makes me think it's a good sign - that Ryzen 3000 is indeed coming VERY soon, early next year. At the very least, it looks like it will release on time, like you said.

Finally, it is cheap alright. But everything else - isn't. For some reason Amazon raised the RAM prices. Mobo still expensive. Nvme SSD still has a way to go down. etc.
And I rather buy the newest motherboard series, that best supports the latest CPUs when they release.

EDIT: oh and I agree it's not a terrible idea to buy and replace CPU later - I guess I can sell it, but I suspect selling will not pay off that well, with prices coming down and especially since I live in Israel -prices here are very steep and importing is expensive too. Plus selling potential is limited here. If I buy it now, because it's around 50$ less - then upgrade when 3800X releases - I just end up not saving money, but throwing away 264$ (+tax+shipping) instead.

 

[Ransome]

I hate waiting too but at 1440p your i5 shouldn’t be holding you back too much in very many games. I’d try waiting and seeing what happens. I jumped the gun and got a 7700k then intel released 6 core i7’s not long after to compete with Ryzen and I regret that purchase. But it’s not like an 8th or 9th gen processor or even a current Ryzen processor will be compeletely obsoleted when the next generation of processors come out; so if you just can’t wait, upgrading now wouldn’t be the end of the world.

Yeah, this is exactly what I'm afraid will happen. I'd hate to feel that "buyer's regret". I'm quite patient, and I can still squeeze a lot from my current Gaming PC.
Furthermore, it sounds like this new Zen2 won't be a refresh, just like 10th gen Intel will be a new architecture. So I think it's safe to assume -there will be a big difference.

My i5-3570K still carry it's weight, and doesn't hold me back severely at 4K and 1440p, depending on the game. I didn't play the latest heaviest games like AC Origins though. Which doesn't sound optimized at all anyway. So regardless of bottlenecks, a performance boost from CPU and RAM would be very welcome.

I kinda hope Capcom releases a good PC public demo for DMC5 -because that's the main reason I want to have a new build in 2019! That way I can test my current rig's performance - and gauge if I can truly wait.
It's a funny strategy I know, but it makes the most sense to me.
I didn't build a new system at all in 2017-2018 (except GPU) - mainly because there weren't that many good games I was excited to play. And I didn't want to "waste" 2 years of tech, "aging my pc" - not using it enough.

Alright thanks, your comments gave me some food for thought. Waiting might be wisest, most efficient and will grant be a big satisfying pay off eventually.

(Unless i9-9900K comes down in price and becomes available, or Intel announces something new in short future. Then it will open up more options to consider.)

 

[QwerkyPengwen]

and what happens when you wait and then release hits and the 3000 series chips are $500 like Intel chips?
Would suck wouldn't it.

But even if the 3000 series did just magically drop in Q1/Q2 of next year, like was stated already, you could get the best thing that's out right now for cheap, and if next gen does drop in Q1/Q2 you can already have a very good system just in case the chips end up being a let down and not a big enough leap forward to warrant whatever they cost compared to the current 2000 series.

And if it does end up being a worth while upgrade, you already have the AM4 platform and all you'll have to do is update the BIOS to support the new chips and pop one in, then sell your 2000 series chip on the used market to make back some of the cost.

And doing it this way right now affords you something to play with today and is a failsafe to fall back on in the off chance 3000 series isn't worth the upgrade, or if it ends up being released the later half of 2019.

 

[huntlong]

Has AMD come out and said that Next gen Ryzen will be “fully” supported on current gen chipsets? I know it will work but I’ve heard that if the core counts increase those cpus with higher cores may not be fully supported. Also it’s not every release cycle that performance increases are rumored to be so high. Must cycles you can count on 5-10% overall performance increases but a 10-15% IPC increase along with 13% faster clocks and possibly even more cores would be huge. Even if the increase is half of what’s been making the rumor rounds would be substantial compared to what it’s been like since 2nd gen intel to now where it’s always been ~10% overall improvements. I still say it’s worth the wait this time.

 

[Ransome]

Has AMD come out and said that Next gen Ryzen will be “fully” supported on current gen chipsets? I know it will work but I’ve heard that if the core counts increase those cpus with higher cores may not be fully supported. Also it’s not every release cycle that performance increases are rumored to be so high. Must cycles you can count on 5-10% overall performance increases but a 10-15% IPC increase along with 13% faster clocks and possibly even more cores would be huge. Even if the increase is half of what’s been making the rumor rounds would be substantial compared to what it’s been like since 2nd gen intel to now where it’s always been ~10% overall improvements. I still say it’s worth the wait this time.

This.
It's always best to have the most updated chipset that launches alongside a new CPU - to have full optimization. Signs are showing big meaningful changes, and arrival that's really not that far.
(If anything, next gen mobo will better support Zen 3+ - in case I decide to upgrade again later)

I decided to wait. Only good, great stuff, can come of it.
My PC is still rocking it! Good old beast.

 

[drea.drechsler]

It's always best to have the most updated chipset that launches alongside a new CPU - to have full optimization. Signs are showing big meaningful changes, and arrival that's really not that far.
(If anything, next gen mobo will better support Zen 3+ - in case I decide to upgrade again later)

I decided to wait. Only good, great stuff, can come of it.
My PC is still rocking it! Good old beast.

As I said, there's always a reason to wait so you have to make the case to upgrade now. If you can't make that case then don't do it, simple as that.

But I don't see any reason to believe there will be any new chip sets for Zen2 release. First: there's no news talking about it and there certainly was a lot of that with X470/B450 for Zen+ release. But also, AMD may not have said outright, but there has been plenty of information released into the channel that ZEN2 will be released on AM4 with current chipsets, and that includes even X370/B350/A320 chipsets. So: no NEW chipsets and released on current chipsets really really suggests to me 'full support' for the CPU.

Finally, I think a new chipset would be more likely when PCIe Gen 4, USB 3.2 and other standards are all finalized. An that's what I'd want to see supported in it since the chipset has little to no impact on actual CPU performance potential anyway. As we've seen with the 300 series chipset running 2000 series processors.

I also have read more arguments saying a 16 core Ryzen (as opposed to Threadripper) chip on AM4 is not realistic since 8 cores is about the most that consumer market software can effectively utilize right right now anyway. TR is there for those workstation-class HEDT cases that really need the cores, so it doesn't seem likely to happen for the consumer market.

Now one thing to watch is what motherboard mfr's will do. This would be a great time to release new models offering features to take advantage of Ryzen 3000 CPU's demands to assure it's superior performance potential, whether the need is real or just perceived. But maybe we'll get some B450 boards with true 6 or even 8 phase VRM's.

 

[huntlong]

I wouldn’t put much faith in the mobo mfr’s. Look up how well a 9900k works on the newer B360 boards that have come out with official “support” of the 9900k. But that is partly on intel for understating the TDP.

 

[ohiou_grad_2006]

Another option, pick up a 1700x as a placeholder then overclock. That way you can get the rest of the build set, still get a performance bump now, then you can sell the 1700x later. I think one video showed the 2700x vs the 1700x, and it was about a 10% difference give or take. But if you can overclock the 1700x, then you get back sooner of that performance. I know last week microcenter had them for 129, which is not much more than an i3. I think they still have them about 160.

 

[drea.drechsler]

I wouldn’t put much faith in the mobo mfr’s. Look up how well a 9900k works on the newer B360 boards that have come out with official “support” of the 9900k. But that is partly on intel for understating the TDP.

I have tremendous faith in motherboard mfr's looking for ways to sell more boards. LOL They are quite used to the Intel practice of new chipsets for new CPU's which also drives sales of motherboards and aren't getting that dynamic with AMD. But it's been very curious that there are precious few Ryzen motherboards, especially in m-ATX and mini-ITX (are there really ANY?), with the high-end feature sets found on Intel boards. This would be a good time to bring those out to drive some renewed sales interest at the high end at least.

Especially if this CPU release really is the break out that tops Intel's IPC lead!

 

[paulsun700]

and what happens when you wait and then release hits and the 3000 series chips are $500 like Intel chips?
Would suck wouldn't it.

But even if the 3000 series did just magically drop in Q1/Q2 of next year, like was stated already, you could get the best thing that's out right now for cheap, and if next gen does drop in Q1/Q2 you can already have a very good system just in case the chips end up being a let down and not a big enough leap forward to warrant whatever they cost compared to the current 2000 series.

And if it does end up being a worth while upgrade, you already have the AM4 platform and all you'll have to do is update the BIOS to support the new chips and pop one in, then sell your 2000 series chip on the used market to make back some of the cost.

And doing it this way right now affords you something to play with today and is a failsafe to fall back on in the off chance 3000 series isn't worth the upgrade, or if it ends up being released the later half of 2019.

Well if they are 500 dollars, the prices for zen + would drop. So either way, it's sort of a win.

 

[Yogi2367]

Just my two cents worth ...
If you are always waiting for the next best thing, you will never do anything. You are simply throwing a dart at a dartboard that does not exist. You might as well keep what you have, and replace it with then-current tech that exists when it BSOD's for good.
There is no right answer to "What if ... ", and "Future-proof" computers are a myth.

 

[Ransome]

Just my two cents worth ...
If you are always waiting for the next best thing, you will never do anything. You are simply throwing a dart at a dartboard that does not exist. You might as well keep what you have, and replace it with then-current tech that exists when it BSOD's for good.
There is no right answer to "What if ... ", and "Future-proof" computers are a myth.

I truly appreciate the opinion. And to a degree I agree with you. I'm also well aware that Future-proofing isn't permanent. But it does exist as a temporary thing.

However, at this stage it would be dumb NOT to wait.
Back when I made the thread, Amazon had AMD on killer sale for 260~$. Now it's not.
And 2018 is OVER.
Next gen AMD Ryzen is essentially around the corner, and I have little doubt it will release beyond Q1-Q2. With March-April being a likely release date. Intel's latest wasn't very successful and many people have complaints about it's thermals and stability, not to mention price.

Unless current hardware becomes really cheap (right now prices are not very attractive at all), like 2700X hitting a major sale - and I'm keeping my eyes peeled on DAILY basis - waiting for the soon to release new hardware seems like the safest wisest choice.

I'll get more bang for my money, and to be honest, I've waited this long, and skilled 6-7 generations of CPUs - that I might as well do it.

My current rig is still running strong. And frankly I'm short on money. So when I do buy a full system I want to shoot for the BEST and latest.

 

[ohiou_grad_2006]

Either way you go, you'll be happy. A friend of mine has same GPU paired with a 2700x, 16gb of ram and a 144hz 27 inch display and loves it. But I agree, wait until next generation lands before jumping.

 

[chemmajorp53]

IDK, I'm playing the waiting game with a 1700X I got at microcenter for $140, if ryzen 3 is great then I'll just buy it. Pretty small amount of money to risk for an 8-core beast.

 

[Ransome]

This just in:
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-3000-series-matisse-specs,38310.html

Yes! Exciting news.
Knew, it was the right thing to wait and not but the 2700x yet.
And if 3850x arrives by May- then the others will arrive sooner, Q1 as hoped and expected..which is great news!
(Called it!)

One thing that's not clear to me: how come the cheaper 3700x has much higher clock and boost speeds than the top tier 3800x? (Which costs quite a lot)
You'd expect a linear growth in clock speeds with higher end chips.

Also should one wait for a new motherboard line up to better support these CPUs?

I think I'll aim for the 3800x Ryzen 9 series.
Unless the 3850 is worth the extra bump- I suspect it will be too hot and power hungry and thus less stable.
But 3800x and 3700x sounds like amazing CPU chips and solid choices.
Heck even the lower end 3000s look impressive and promising.

I'm glad I held on to my i5-3570k build.

 

[huntlong]

Sometimes clock speeds drop when core count goes up. But with decently similar silicon they’ll overclock to about the same speeds. Manufacturers will understate max speeds a lot of the time just to be able to guarantee a certain speed on 100% of parts.

If you look at Nvidia GPU’s they will clock much higher than what the box says by themselves without any overclocking.

 

[ohiou_grad_2006]

Reason the clocks are going to be higher is because the 3000 series is Zen 2. So it works like this.

Ryzen 1000 series=Zen 1
Ryzen 2000 series=Zen +
Ryzen 3000 series=Zen 2
Ryzen 4000 series=Zen 3(I think)

So my understanding from what I've read is that Ryzen 1 was released on 14nm, Ryzen + was 12nm, Ryzen 2 will be 7nm. So Ryzen 2 is a good die shrink, which should allow less heat and higher clock speeds. But also I think it's a bit of a redesign as well to where they will improve IPC. With the smaller die and less heat output, that may be why they can push higher clocks.

 

[huntlong]

He meant clock speeds of the 3700x vs 3800x

 

[ohiou_grad_2006]

Ah. In that case, maybe it has to do with the fact the 3700x appears to be 12 cores, the other I think was 16. Maybe since they may not be using as much die space due to fewer cores, they can push frequency up?

Though it appears they will have a 3850x that can turbo to 5.1. Maybe they are binning some of the better ones for flagship CPUs within their tier.

 

[huntlong]

It’s just more likely to have fewer cores reach higher rated speeds due to flaws in manufacturing and silicon.