[SOLVED] ryzen 3 2200g or gtx1650 first

[Sceptic666]

Hey can someone help me choose
I have a core2duo E8500 and gt730 I know it sucks it's my old pc and I thought of giving it to my friend but before that I want to upgrade it
So for upgrade should I go for Ryzen 3 with Vega 8 for entry level gaming or should I buy a gtx1650 with core2 duo E8500( I think it's basically overkill)
Please help me decide what I should do

 

[WildCard999]

I'd get the 2200G first as not only is it a better CPU then your current but the Vega 8 iGPU is better then the GT 730.

 

[punkncat]

I just want to be sure you understand that upgrading to the Ryzen CPU is going to require a new motherboard, memory, and OS install...correct?

 

[beers]

What actual budget are you working with?

I'd throw in some more dollars for at least a 3400G if you want iGPU or 3300X and another GPU of your choice like the 1650. Also keep in mind budgeting for the board and RAM.

giving it to my friend but before that I want to upgrade it

Does this imply the upgrade is for you, or for your friend?

 

[Karadjgne]

I'd go with gpu first. If for nothing else, by the time you save up for a new platform, you'll be able to move the gpu. With buying the platform first, you are stuck with a lackluster cpu. Dropping a 3300x onto a cheaper B450/550 with a 1650 will get you far better results than trying to push a 1650 with any APU. For roughly the same price overall.

Your gaming might not improve much at first, (it will to some extent as the gpu is far superior to the GT730) but the end result will outweigh any temporary initial downsides.

 

[Sceptic666]

I just want to be sure you understand that upgrading to the Ryzen CPU is going to require a new motherboard, memory, and OS install...correct?

yes as when i checked i can get ryzen 3 with mobo and ram for like 56$ extra than the gtx1650

 

[Sceptic666]

I'd go with gpu first. If for nothing else, by the time you save up for a new platform, you'll be able to move the gpu. With buying the platform first, you are stuck with a lackluster cpu. Dropping a 3300x onto a cheaper B450/550 with a 1650 will get you far better results than trying to push a 1650 with any APU. For roughly the same price overall.

Your gaming might not improve much at first, (it will to some extent as the gpu is far superior to the GT730) but the end result will outweigh any temporary initial downsides.

But if i go with the GPU it will be a overkill for a core2duo E8500 3.16ghz right?

 

[Sceptic666]

What actual budget are you working with?

I'd throw in some more dollars for at least a 3400G if you want iGPU or 3300X and another GPU of your choice like the 1650. Also keep in mind budgeting for the board and RAM.

Does this imply the upgrade is for you, or for your friend?

upgrade is for my friend he plays fortnite mostly and some minecraft

 

[Karadjgne]

No. Not overkill.

Cpu sets the frame rate. It takes the game code and pre-renders it, puts dimensions, placements, movements, user interactions etc. It'll do that to the best of its ability. The amount of frames it can complete in 1 second is the fps. Then sends that to the gpu, which takes that frame, adds color and shadow etc and paints it on screen according to detail levels, post processing affects and resolution. It'll do that to the best of its ability. The amount of frames it can complete in 1 second is the fps you see on the counter.

So if your old cpu can do 100 fps in a game, it sends that to that decrepit GT730. Which at low details can only stick 50 on screen. Bumping up to the 1650 will allow all 100 from the cpu at high-ultra.

If your cpu is only capable of 50frames and that GT730 could put all 50 at ultra (that'd be a very old DX9.0c from like 10 years ago) then a move to the 1650 won't change anything, same 50fps output since the cpu is capped.

The only thing a gpu changes is detail levels at any given resolution. It either can live upto what the cpu gives it, or fails.

Right now, that old GT730 is almost always gpu limited in fps output, playing anything relatively newer is low settings just to make it playable. The 1650 will be the opposite, you'll be at high-ultra easily and cpu capped, but that's only temporary until you move to a stronger cpu/platform.

The Vega8 graphics are superior to a GT730, right at GT1030 levels, but the tradeoff is you'd be going back to a weaker cpu when you do move to something like the 1650 and the Vega graphics would no longer be used, wasting half the chip on nothing.

By itself, the 3200G/3400G and Vega graphics are seriously impressive, but if you plan on upgrading to a full discrete gpu, the Vega is moot and you'd be better served with a seperate cpu/gpu combo.

So it's a choice, go with just the APU and call it a day, or upgrade gpu now and get a good matching cpu later.

A r3 3300x is $119, a 3400G is $149. You are paying more just for the Vega and the 3300x is a stronger cpu than the 3400G on that side of things.

I could live with overkill temporarily, not so concerned with immediate gains, more concerned with gains when I'm finished.

 

[InvalidError]

The E8500 is grossly under-powered for any modern GPU, so upgrading the GPU first makes very little sense to me.

Upgrading the CPU+MoBo+RAM on the other hand will immediately give you access to much improved all-around usability until you can afford a new GPU. The reduced latency between GPU and RAM from having both the PCIe and memory controllers integrated into the CPU may even give the GT730 a helping hand.

The only problem I have with a CPU upgrade right now is B550 motherboards being only three weeks away. Right now, manufacturers have mostly unveiled their premium(-ish) boards with 10-12+2 phases VRMs and scary price tags, hope there will be some more reasonable options closer to the $100 alleged starting price for the more value-conscious people.

 

[WildCard999]

@InvalidError, It doesn't appear the B550's will support the 2200G, more then likely will need to go B450 or whatever is available for them.

 

[WildCard999]

yes as when i checked i can get ryzen 3 with mobo and ram for like 56$ extra than the gtx1650

Which motherboard and memory exactly? With Ryzen you want fast memory so going with 3000/3200mhz is ideal and in dual channel.

 

[InvalidError]

It doesn't appear the B550's will support the 2200G, more then likely will need to go B450 or whatever is available for them.

It appears I accidentally edited out the part of post about not recommending the half-assed compromise approach (don't buy an APU if you plan to upgrade the GPU) and weighed in favor of a 3300X if available, hence my recommendation of waiting for B550 if possible

 

[Karadjgne]

I dunno what amd is upto. How a B550 won't support the APU's, when the x570's already do. I've even seen info that the B550 won't support anything except 3000/4000 cpus and yet 2000 series cpus also work just fine on x570 mobo's. Some say that's from the Agesa support allowing that, but duh, Agesa is already out, so should be part of the current bios. Some claim its the bios chip size, that might be true for the older 16Mb chips, but all the new boards should be using the 32Mb chips so should have no issues with any bios sizes, limited only by what the chipset allows for. Right back to amd.

I don't think anybody absolutely knows for sure 100% as to what the exact truth is, all this can and can't do.

Right now mobo pricing is stupid, even eBay asking $400-$700 for an X570, but the 1650 is relatively stable. And in stock. OP could get some use out of it and wait a couple months for prices to even out on the other stuff and pick up a decent B450 with a r3 3300x and 16Gb of ram and be good. An upgraded cpu won't be much use at all as the GT730 isn't going to offer any better graphics or fps.

Normally I'd say the opposite, but not this tone.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

What you could do is buy the new gpu and upgrade to a core 2 quad that is compatible with your motherboard.

A decent core 2 quad is not expensive at like $10 and will not really keep up with the 1650 either, but it will be a noticably better experience for not much more money.

 

[InvalidError]

Some claim its the bios chip size, that might be true for the older 16Mb chips, but all the new boards should be using the 32Mb chips so should have no issues with any bios sizes, limited only by what the chipset allows for. Right back to amd.

AMD said the BIOS size limit is due to what older CPUs are able to address. Using a 1GB SPI flash won't help, older CPUs will still be stuck only able to access the first 16MB. Support for older chips will get axed from x570 boards when you update them for Zen 3.

Seems simple enough to me: much simpler to skip support for Zen/Zen+ right out of the gate with A520/B550 than having to deal with the backlash for dropping support when the next CPU generation launches.

Being able to design motherboards exclusively for Zen 2 and up probably makes AMD and board manufacturers' lives a fair bit easier too: they can scrap all of the hacks they may have needed to deal with Zen/Zen+ quirks.

 

[Karadjgne]

Gonna be a bunch of irate ppl with APUs/2700x on x570 after bios updates axe support, not unless they guarantee that bios can be reverted to a last known supported bios.

I'd agree with not supporting in the first place if they hadn't already opened the door. Like the 4k chips not supported on 300 series boards , but if the x570 already has support and you use a 32Mb bios chip, no reason to discount the A520/B550 from 3000 APU's.

Just have seperate bios files for each gen cpu, not 1 bios trying to accommodate all gens. Asus has a bios updater tool, easy enough to get it to load only the correct gen bios according to cpu.

 

[InvalidError]

Gonna be a bunch of irate ppl with APUs/2700x on x570 after bios updates axe support

Since a Zen+ CPU cannot make meaningful use of most of the x570's features, I doubt that is a particularly common combo and if you do have one, then there is a simple work-around: don't update to Zen 3 BIOS in the first place.

 

[Karadjgne]

True and true. Except all too many do not read bios notes, they just install the latest, cuz that's what they always did with Intel.

 

[Sceptic666]

Which motherboard and memory exactly? With Ryzen you want fast memory so going with 3000/3200mhz is ideal and in dual channel.

how much fps do u think i will get with gtx1650 and core2duo E8500?
in fortnite and some games

 

[Sceptic666]

how much fps do u think i will get with gtx1650 and core2duo E8500?
in fortnite and some games

how much do u think i will be limited???
in GAMES

 

[InvalidError]

On my E8400 and HD5700, I was CPU-bound to 40-50fps in Diablo 3. Modern games are a fair bit more demanding, expect performance in modern games to be considerably lower. Some modern games won't work at all on dual-core CPUs and those that do will likely have massive frame time variance / stutter.

The slowest CPU I've seen benchmarked with Fortnite is the Ryzen 2200G which managed ~60fps. The E8500 is way less than half as fast (almost half the IPC, half the cores, slower clocks), so you'll likely get ~20fps.

 

[Sceptic666]

On my E8400 and HD5700, I was CPU-bound to 40-50fps in Diablo 3. Modern games are a fair bit more demanding, expect performance in modern games to be considerably lower. Some modern games won't work at all on dual-core CPUs and those that do will likely have massive frame time variance / stutter.

The slowest CPU I've seen benchmarked with Fortnite is the Ryzen 2200G which managed ~60fps. The E8500 is way less than half as fast (almost half the IPC, half the cores, slower clocks), so you'll likely get ~20fps.

~20 fps means? he usually plays fortnite and minecraft in these games ~20fps only?

 

[InvalidError]

It means that from what few Fortnite benchmarks I could find on the lowest-end CPUs people could be othered to benchmark it on, I would expect playing it on a C2D 8500 to be a painful experience.

I haven't looked for Minecraft.

 

[beers]

For Fortnite/Minecraft the CPU is a bigger deal tbh.

Probably better scrapping everything from that old arse PC and starting fresh.