Discussion Ryzen 4xxx Zen 3 support on B450 and X570

[RodroX]

It seems AMD will finally add some kind of support for Zen 3 CPUs to B450 and X470, it wont be ideal but its better than nothing.

Only thing left to see is how this end up working on the end user. And how good or bad (upgrade wise) things turn out to be the first weeks or months after launch.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhVGrLJpoy8

 

[GarrettL]

That's cool, we'll see how it goes though.

 

[drea.drechsler]

It seems AMD will finally add some kind of support for Zen 3 CPUs to B450 and X470, it wont be ideal but its better than nothing.

Only thing left to see is how this end up working on the end user. And how good or bad (upgrade wise) things turn out to be the first weeks or months after launch.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhVGrLJpoy8

Key take aways:

It's a one-way upgrade. No going back. In reality, true enthusiasts know how to get around that by using a UEFI BIOS updater.

You will have to have in hand a Zen3 processor. That means this BIOS will probably only come to you by contacting the motherboard's tech support, showing proof of purchase, and getting an FTP download or email. Or a trustworthy 'friend' with the same motherboard who went through the same update. Or who knows, the BIOS' might be serial number keyed, and therefore won't update on any other board. Again, true enthusiasts won't be dismayed because they'll just get it from a 'friend' and hack it if need be.

THIS IS SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO KNOW ABOUT and really want. This will eliminate 90%, or more, of the less tech-savvy who caused a lot of the Zen2 roll out problems to be blown up in the forums.

They are responding for the true enthusiasts.

I'm Ok with this!

 

[CountMike]

They keep on changing options like octopus it's colors, If size of BIOS is their excuse than it's a poor one. 128Mb should be enough for any BIOS, In my MB there's a lot of empty space with option to clean it up from all those doubled settings.

 

[RodroX]

Im guessing public opinion was stronger than BIOS size limit hahahaha

 

[GarrettL]

Well, it's how many cpu's you can support with a given BIOS capacity is what it sounded like. Too many cpu's to try and support successfully appears to be their concern.

 

[drea.drechsler]

They keep on changing options like octopus it's colors, If size of BIOS is their excuse than it's a poor one. 128Mb should be enough for any BIOS, In my MB there's a lot of empty space with option to clean it up from all those doubled settings.

Go check out Steve's mini-documentary on the subject. It's not just the size even though it's a major limiter. But if BIOS size weren't an issue, across the spectrum of all current AM4 boards, it would be a lot easier. Even so, I'm wondering just how many B450/X470 boards will get the update even as mentioned here. I'm suspecting MSI, for instance, will only do it for their MAX lineup.

AMD's real problem is - was - how they handled it. JUST blaming on the BIOS ROM-size way over-simplified, and that pissed off enthusiasts who can see through it.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5X-8vZtml8&t=761s

 

[CountMike]

Go check out Steve's mini-documentary on the subject. It's not just the size even though it's a major limiter. But if BIOS size weren't an issue, across the spectrum of all current AM4 boards, it would be a lot easier.

AMD's real problem is - was - how they handled it.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5X-8vZtml8&t=761s

Size was cited by AMD as real problem. most 500 motherboards don't have any larger BIOS so at least that part was BS.
Similar BS was about activating PCIe v4, first they said it was possible and than not.
AMD should not have made any promises until everything is known. Looks like their PR is mostly at fault.

 

[drea.drechsler]

Size was cited by AMD as real problem. most 500 motherboards don't have any larger BIOS so at least that part was BS.
Similar BS was about activating PCIe v4, first they said it was possible and than not.
AMD should not have made any promises until everything is known. Looks like their PR is mostly at fault.

This PR debacle of just slipping out with the non-support on 300/400 like that that was definitely at fault. They should have provided a lot more backup and explanation. They should have been prepping board partners as soon as they came to the realization, and well before coming out with it generally. MSI's reactions certainly seem to indicate they did not...heck, MSI burned themselves with future support claims on their MAX boards that went far beyond what AMD ever claimed.

But BIOS size is a problem, clearly (WATCH the VIDEO), and so are user community reactions on public forums when un- and under- skilled owners brick their motherboards by the hundreds JUST because they didn't read the release notes in their BIOS package. So AMD has a problem: do they pay the price once, with a relatively small community of enthusiasts? Or for months or years after when average neophyte owners (representing the VASTLY larger market, btw) who still don't read release notes continue to brick motherboards with a BIOS update not meant for the Ryzen 1000 processor they have.

AMD, I think, wants to push their products beyond the enthusiast-only crowd into the broader market. I do believe that means they have to become a bit more Intel-like, as hard as it is to accept it. I'd like them to also go back to 'Black Edition' processors, like Intel's 'K' suffix, to limit overclocking to those willing to spend more to get into the game. They are also the ones more likely to educate themselves on it's dangers to hardware.

 

[CountMike]

This PR debacle of just slipping out with the non-support on 300/400 like that that was definitely at fault. They should have provided a lot more backup and explanation. They should have been prepping board partners as soon as they came to the realization, and well before coming out with it generally. MSI's reactions certainly seem to indicate they did not...heck, MSI burned themselves with future support claims on their MAX boards that went far beyond what AMD ever claimed.

But BIOS size is a problem, clearly (WATCH the VIDEO), and so are user community reactions on public forums when un- and under- skilled owners brick their motherboards by the hundreds JUST because they didn't read the release notes in their BIOS package. So AMD has a problem: do they pay the price once, with a relatively small community of enthusiasts? Or for months or years after when average neophyte owners (representing the VASTLY larger market, btw) who still don't read release notes continue to brick motherboards with a BIOS update not meant for the Ryzen 1000 processor they have.

AMD, I think, wants to push their products beyond the enthusiast-only crowd into the broader market. I do believe that means they have to become a bit more Intel-like, as hard as it is to accept it. I'd like them to also go back to 'Black Edition' processors, like Intel's 'K' suffix, to limit overclocking to those willing to spend more to get into the game. They are also the ones more likely to educate themselves on it's dangers to hardware.

It's OK to strive for high production rates and sales but enthusiast market is important. Automotive companies for instance invest heavily in racing because it's a source of innovation and race winning models also contribute to increased sales.

 

[drea.drechsler]

It's OK to strive for high production rates and sales but enthusiast market is important. Automotive companies for instance invest heavily in racing because it's a source of innovation and race winning models also contribute to increased sales.

Impossible to say...but if Zen 3 turns out to a worthy successor to Zen2 it could easily be market transforming. We could easily find AMD taking clear CPU performance leadership in all sectors: including Gaming King as it's so close right now, lost only to factory overclocked furnaces from the competition.

If that turns out the case I think enthusiasts, even AMD's most ticked off ones who might feel betrayed, would grump a bit but slam down the bucks on the most capable motherboards attainable just to be first to post proofs everywhere they can. AMD could turn those frowns upside down quickly enough, just so long as they deliver. And with two more years as Intel turns the dirt pile over looking for gold...and by then it's Zen 4. They have to tick them off at some point. I think now's the time because just as Ned warned everybody: Winter's Coming.

 

[CountMike]

Impossible to say...but if Zen 3 turns out to a worthy successor to Zen2 it could easily be market transforming. We could easily find AMD taking clear CPU performance leadership in all sectors: including Gaming King as it's so close right now, lost only to factory overclocked furnaces from the competition.

If that turns out the case I think enthusiasts, even AMD's most ticked off ones who might feel betrayed, would grump a bit but slam down the bucks on the most capable motherboards attainable just to be first to post proofs everywhere they can. AMD could turn those frowns upside down quickly enough, just so long as they deliver. And with two more years as Intel turns the dirt pile over looking for gold...and by then it's Zen 4. They have to tick them off at some point. I think now's the time because just as Ned warned everybody: Winter's Coming.

That's another point , we still don't know and could only speculate what 4000 can bring in performance field, it just may warrant new MB. Personally I migh just get 3950x and be done with it for next couple of years.

 

[drea.drechsler]

That's another point , we still don't know and could only speculate what 4000 can bring in performance field, it just may warrant new MB.
.....

The AMD announcement makes it clear that to get the most out of the new processor you'll need a 500 series board. Certainly that means to get PCIe gen 4 you'll need one, but whatever more it offers is still to be seen.

What clues, I wonder, are there in the current line of X570 boards?

Zen 4 will absolutely not work on AM4...that's also made clear in the announcement.