[SOLVED] Ryzen 5 3600/5700XT Bad Performance.

Jan 6, 2021
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Hi there, first post on this forum :)

I've recently built a new machine to replace my dusty old one. The specs are:

Ryzen 5 3600
Sapphire PULSE 5700xt
16gb Kingston HyperX @ 3600MhZ
ASRock Steel Legend B450M ATX
Cooler Master MWE 750w Gold

From benchmarks I've seen, the computer is supposed to stomp in newer games, especially in 1080p (which is what I play all my games at for now).
For example, in Kingdom Come: Deliverance I have seen benchmarks reaching over 120fps in Ultra, whereas my computer will barely scrape 60.
I am extremely gutted about this as I built this computer to replace an old i5 and I was expecting miles better numbers.
Does anyone have any idea what I could've done wrong? I have done no overclocking or anything of the sort and havent tried to tamper with any advanced BIOS settings.
 

Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
It also doesn't factor in things like the fact that they have FIOS while you might have a slow asymmetrical DSL connection, or even just a basic lower speed tier cable, which will have an affect on performance.

Maybe they are also 10GBe LAN while you're sharing that lower speed connection with four other family members AND you're connecting via a wifi adapter, not even hard wired in to the router or modem.

They might be hitting a preferred server while you're on one that's severely crowded. And so on. And so on.

And even if you have the EXACT same hardware, with the EXACT network throughput to the server, they may have an almost strictly clean installation with nothing except for the basic Windows essentials and the game installed, and we know for a fact that a very clean OS can make a lot of difference, so adding unnecessary applications, add ons, mods, browser plugins, and so on can definitely make a difference as well if you have all these things running in the background and they don't.

Not saying that there isn't an issue on your end, but as Karadjgne has alluded to, there is usually more to the big picture than just "I have the same CPU and graphics card, so why don't I have the same performance".

Also, as he mentioned, if you have all these built in Windows utilities, plus Nvidia tools, trying to record stuff in the background, or you have a few different options enabled in the quality settings, that can have a huge impact on performance too. Shadowplay, Xbox DVR, etc. The more things you can eliminate, the more processes that you can streamline, the better your performance will be, but it's equally true that there could be some stupid little thing causing your performance to be hampered as well so it's a good idea to try and figure out what that might be, like you are.

Also, we can't ever rule out the possibility that something is simply faulty either. There could also be problems with thermal throttling on either the CPU or video card happening as well. I'd recommend that you keep a close eye on HWinfo or Ryzen master, one of the two, to see if there are any funky thermal behaviors happening.
 

Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
Did you do a FULL, CLEAN install of Windows, or are you using the old Windows installation?

Have you checked to see if there are any newer STABLE BIOS versions available, because if there are, not counting any beta BIOS versions, you should update.

If there are any steps listed here that you have not already done, it would be advisable to do so if for no other reason than to be able to say you've already done it and eliminate that possibility.



First,

Make sure your motherboard has the MOST recent BIOS version installed. If it does not, then update. This solves a high number of issues even in cases where the release that is newer than yours makes no mention of improving graphics card or other hardware compatibility. They do not list every change they have made when they post a new BIOS release.


Second,

Go to the product page for your motherboard on the manufacturer website. Download and install the latest driver versions for the chipset, storage controllers, audio and network adapters. Do not skip installing a newer driver just because you think it is not relevant to the problem you are having. The drivers for one device can often affect ALL other devices and a questionable driver release can cause instability in the OS itself. They don't release new drivers just for fun. If there is a new driver release for a component, there is a good reason for it. The same goes for BIOS updates. When it comes to the chipset drivers, if your motherboard manufacturer lists a chipset driver that is newer than what the chipset developer (Intel or AMD, for our purposes) lists, then use that one. If Intel (Or AMD) shows a chipset driver version that is newer than what is available from the motherboard product page, then use that one. Always use the newest chipset driver that you can get and always use ONLY the chipset drivers available from either the motherboard manufacturer, AMD or Intel.


IF you have other hardware installed or attached to the system that are not a part of the systems covered by the motherboard drivers, then go to the support page for THAT component and check to see if there are newer drivers available for that as well. If there are, install them.


Third,

Make sure your memory is running at the correct advertised speed in the BIOS. This may require that you set the memory to run at the XMP profile settings. Also, make sure you have the memory installed in the correct slots and that they are running in dual channel which you can check by installing CPU-Z and checking the Memory and SPD tabs. For all modern motherboards that are dual channel memory architectures, from the last ten years at least, if you have two sticks installed they should be in the A2 (Called DDR4_1 on some boards) or B2 (Called DDR4_2 on some boards) which are ALWAYS the SECOND and FOURTH slots over from the CPU socket, counting TOWARDS the edge of the motherboard EXCEPT on boards that only have two memory slots total. In that case, if you have two modules it's not rocket science, but if you have only one, then install it in the A1 or DDR4_1 slot.



Fourth (And often tied for most important along with an up-to-date motherboard BIOS),

A clean install of the graphics card drivers. Regardless of whether you "already installed the newest drivers" for your graphics card or not, it is OFTEN a good idea to do a CLEAN install of the graphics card drivers. Just installing over the old drivers OR trying to use what Nvidia and AMD consider a clean install is not good enough and does not usually give the same result as using the Display Driver Uninstaller utility. This has a very high success rate and is always worth a shot.


If you have had both Nvidia and AMD cards installed at any point on that operating system then you will want to run the DDU twice. Once for the old card drivers (ie, Nvidia or AMD) and again for the currently installed graphics card drivers (ie, AMD or Nvidia). So if you had an Nvidia card at some point in the past, run it first for Nvidia and then after that is complete, run it again for AMD if you currently have an AMD card installed.



And last, but not least, if you have never done a CLEAN install of Windows, or have upgraded from an older version to Windows 10, or have been through several spring or fall major Windows updates, it might be a very good idea to consider doing a clean install of Windows if none of these other solutions has helped. IF you are using a Windows installation from a previous system and you didn't do a clean install of Windows after building the new system, then it's 99.99% likely that you NEED to do a CLEAN install before trying any other solutions.


How to do a CLEAN installation of Windows 10, the RIGHT way
 
Jan 6, 2021
6
0
10
0
Did you do a FULL, CLEAN install of Windows, or are you using the old Windows installation?

Have you checked to see if there are any newer STABLE BIOS versions available, because if there are, not counting any beta BIOS versions, you should update.

If there are any steps listed here that you have not already done, it would be advisable to do so if for no other reason than to be able to say you've already done it and eliminate that possibility.



First,

Make sure your motherboard has the MOST recent BIOS version installed. If it does not, then update. This solves a high number of issues even in cases where the release that is newer than yours makes no mention of improving graphics card or other hardware compatibility. They do not list every change they have made when they post a new BIOS release.


Second,

Go to the product page for your motherboard on the manufacturer website. Download and install the latest driver versions for the chipset, storage controllers, audio and network adapters. Do not skip installing a newer driver just because you think it is not relevant to the problem you are having. The drivers for one device can often affect ALL other devices and a questionable driver release can cause instability in the OS itself. They don't release new drivers just for fun. If there is a new driver release for a component, there is a good reason for it. The same goes for BIOS updates. When it comes to the chipset drivers, if your motherboard manufacturer lists a chipset driver that is newer than what the chipset developer (Intel or AMD, for our purposes) lists, then use that one. If Intel (Or AMD) shows a chipset driver version that is newer than what is available from the motherboard product page, then use that one. Always use the newest chipset driver that you can get and always use ONLY the chipset drivers available from either the motherboard manufacturer, AMD or Intel.


IF you have other hardware installed or attached to the system that are not a part of the systems covered by the motherboard drivers, then go to the support page for THAT component and check to see if there are newer drivers available for that as well. If there are, install them.


Third,

Make sure your memory is running at the correct advertised speed in the BIOS. This may require that you set the memory to run at the XMP profile settings. Also, make sure you have the memory installed in the correct slots and that they are running in dual channel which you can check by installing CPU-Z and checking the Memory and SPD tabs. For all modern motherboards that are dual channel memory architectures, from the last ten years at least, if you have two sticks installed they should be in the A2 (Called DDR4_1 on some boards) or B2 (Called DDR4_2 on some boards) which are ALWAYS the SECOND and FOURTH slots over from the CPU socket, counting TOWARDS the edge of the motherboard EXCEPT on boards that only have two memory slots total. In that case, if you have two modules it's not rocket science, but if you have only one, then install it in the A1 or DDR4_1 slot.



Fourth (And often tied for most important along with an up-to-date motherboard BIOS),

A clean install of the graphics card drivers. Regardless of whether you "already installed the newest drivers" for your graphics card or not, it is OFTEN a good idea to do a CLEAN install of the graphics card drivers. Just installing over the old drivers OR trying to use what Nvidia and AMD consider a clean install is not good enough and does not usually give the same result as using the Display Driver Uninstaller utility. This has a very high success rate and is always worth a shot.


If you have had both Nvidia and AMD cards installed at any point on that operating system then you will want to run the DDU twice. Once for the old card drivers (ie, Nvidia or AMD) and again for the currently installed graphics card drivers (ie, AMD or Nvidia). So if you had an Nvidia card at some point in the past, run it first for Nvidia and then after that is complete, run it again for AMD if you currently have an AMD card installed.


Graphics card driver CLEAN install guide using the Wagnard tools DDU



And last, but not least, if you have never done a CLEAN install of Windows, or have upgraded from an older version to Windows 10, or have been through several spring or fall major Windows updates, it might be a very good idea to consider doing a clean install of Windows if none of these other solutions has helped. IF you are using a Windows installation from a previous system and you didn't do a clean install of Windows after building the new system, then it's 99.99% likely that you NEED to do a CLEAN install before trying any other solutions.


How to do a CLEAN installation of Windows 10, the RIGHT way
Hi there, thanks for the prompt and detailed reply.
I have done a fresh installation of Windows 10 Pro N (yesterday after I built my pc) using a bootdrive onto my M.2SSD. Yesterday, I put the latest BIOS onto a usb (I believe it was version 3.70 for the ASRock Steel Legend) and it seemed to flash over perfectly fine. I installed DDU (which I have used many times before, great program) and proceeded to uninstall my GPU drivers (followed your instructions on your other guide, safe mode ect). I also installed all of the AMD Chipset drivers which I completely forgot about installing initially.

I have attempted to follow your guide step by step and try to diagnose all my issues but my computer's performance in games is still absolutely terrible. I am completely at a loss here, I just spent all this money on brand new hardware for my computer to run worse than my previous 4th gen i5 build. My last option is to do a fresh Windows install again which I am more than willing to try if it will fix my computer's performance.

Once again thank you for replying so quickly, but I tried everything step-by-step in your guide and my computer's performance is still bad. Not very sure what to do besides another install of Win10.
 
Jan 6, 2021
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If it's worth mentioning, while gaming my CPU is not being used very much. I just launched up Escape from Tarkov to see if it was only Kingdom Come having issues, but Tarkov was sitting at 99% GPU usage while CPU was at 20% - sometimes not even that.
 
Jan 6, 2021
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run a userbenchmark test and paste the results page here.


"Free download" button. Download and close down all the programs running etc and run the test. Link the result here.
Here is my benchmark result for reference:
https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/38078146

Everything seems to be running fine when the computer is put to a stress test, but in games it's running worse than my previous build which had an i5 4440 and an RX470 4GB
 

Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
Yes, you need to make sure you have your memory modules installed in the 2nd and 4th DIMM slots away from the CPU socket, with the 4th DIMM slot being the one closest to the edge of the motherboard. Generally, this is the A2 and B2 slots for most boards. In some cases they may be given the names DDR4_1 and DDR4_2, but they will STILL be the 2nd and 4th slots over from the CPU.

Then, verify in the BIOS that the memory has XMP/A-XMP enabled. If not, enable it.

Also, keep in mind, Escape from Tarkov is a very poorly optimized game and is not coded well to begin with. Kingdom come has pretty much the same problems. These are not top notch AAA games and there are piles and piles of forum threads across the interwebs from users complaining about how badly both these games are optimized. Of all game titles I've ever encountered on Tom's hardware that people were having problems with, these pretty much take the cake, maybe also Watch dogs, which used to be extremely terribly optimized.

Also, what are you using to get your numbers as far as utilization? Are you using something like the Afterburner overlay or are you looking at the Windows resource or task monitor?
 
Jan 6, 2021
6
0
10
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Yes, you need to make sure you have your memory modules installed in the 2nd and 4th DIMM slots away from the CPU socket, with the 4th DIMM slot being the one closest to the edge of the motherboard. Generally, this is the A2 and B2 slots for most boards. In some cases they may be given the names DDR4_1 and DDR4_2, but they will STILL be the 2nd and 4th slots over from the CPU.

Then, verify in the BIOS that the memory has XMP/A-XMP enabled. If not, enable it.

Also, keep in mind, Escape from Tarkov is a very poorly optimized game and is not coded well to begin with. Kingdom come has pretty much the same problems. These are not top notch AAA games and there are piles and piles of forum threads across the interwebs from users complaining about how badly both these games are optimized. Of all game titles I've ever encountered on Tom's hardware that people were having problems with, these pretty much take the cake, maybe also Watch dogs, which used to be extremely terribly optimized.

Also, what are you using to get your numbers as far as utilization? Are you using something like the Afterburner overlay or are you looking at the Windows resource or task monitor?
Sorry about that guys, I reset my BIOS settings to default to see if that would help and completely forgot to change back my XMP settings. (and when I built my pc I put the ram in A2 and B2 slots respectively)

In terms of monitoring, I have been using the Radeon overlay as it came with my drivers and it shows CPU usage as well as GPU metrics. I understand this may not be the most accurate way to get metrics but I was not expecting to be having to troubleshoot my build to this extent. I mentioned Kingdom Come as I have seen a benchmark with a system exactly the same as mine and the frames are in the high 100s to 120s. My computer won't even run it at 60fps which I find very hard to believe. You can find the benchmark here (linked at the time where that particular game starts).

I have just done another fresh install of Windows 10 Pro and am currently reinstalling the list of drivers ect you recommended. Will update you if there is any news.
 

HappyTrails

Proper
Oct 30, 2020
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3600x + 5700xt here also. DOCP did give the nice little uplift in RDR2 but did nothing for SOTTR for here. Not see much difference utilize adrenaline or afterburner to monitor overlay. Maybe adrenline a little more optimistic.
 

Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
The type of overlay is not the problem. It's just that a lot of people look at Windows task monitor and think that it's giving them accurate information, which usually it is not. Windows reporting utilities are just, laughable, and pretty much have always been that way. Use some kind of overlay or something like HWinfo. Then you'll get much more accurate sensor and usage data. That's all I'm saying.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Ambassador
Have to be careful with youtube benchmark videos, they always show what's possible, not what's probable.

Sure, they'll give a quick blow through of the in-game settings. What they rarely if ever tell you is the out of game settings. They don't mention disabling Xbox DVR in windows, they rarely mention any OC settings such as PBO or locked cores or manually tuned ram, they don't run Antivirus and malware and office and Adobe and Cam and any other resident software (like every home user does), they'll do things like turn global settings of 3d virtual renders to 1 (default is 3), they'll turn gpu settings from Quality to Performance, disable fxaa and other ambient lighting and a host of other minor tweaks you can find on the web to optimize gaming performance.

It's like you may own the exact same car, but they get better 0-60mph because they didn't tell you they are running 104 octane race fuel and you are running 87 unleaded.

And that's just on their end. Also consider online games like pubg or fortnite have to Now deal with massive cheating, and have implemented enough 'fixes' that fps is in the toilet compared to what it was when reviewed either just before release or just after.

Take them with a grain of salt. You might have some of the same equipment that reviewer does, but your system is far from identical.
 

Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
It also doesn't factor in things like the fact that they have FIOS while you might have a slow asymmetrical DSL connection, or even just a basic lower speed tier cable, which will have an affect on performance.

Maybe they are also 10GBe LAN while you're sharing that lower speed connection with four other family members AND you're connecting via a wifi adapter, not even hard wired in to the router or modem.

They might be hitting a preferred server while you're on one that's severely crowded. And so on. And so on.

And even if you have the EXACT same hardware, with the EXACT network throughput to the server, they may have an almost strictly clean installation with nothing except for the basic Windows essentials and the game installed, and we know for a fact that a very clean OS can make a lot of difference, so adding unnecessary applications, add ons, mods, browser plugins, and so on can definitely make a difference as well if you have all these things running in the background and they don't.

Not saying that there isn't an issue on your end, but as Karadjgne has alluded to, there is usually more to the big picture than just "I have the same CPU and graphics card, so why don't I have the same performance".

Also, as he mentioned, if you have all these built in Windows utilities, plus Nvidia tools, trying to record stuff in the background, or you have a few different options enabled in the quality settings, that can have a huge impact on performance too. Shadowplay, Xbox DVR, etc. The more things you can eliminate, the more processes that you can streamline, the better your performance will be, but it's equally true that there could be some stupid little thing causing your performance to be hampered as well so it's a good idea to try and figure out what that might be, like you are.

Also, we can't ever rule out the possibility that something is simply faulty either. There could also be problems with thermal throttling on either the CPU or video card happening as well. I'd recommend that you keep a close eye on HWinfo or Ryzen master, one of the two, to see if there are any funky thermal behaviors happening.
 
Jan 6, 2021
6
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10
0
Thanks for the valuable insight guys, I've made good progress with my machine the past few days and have been looking at everything I can to optimize my machine.
I started off with another Win10 install followed by all the required chipsets and drivers ect, tried a few different games that I assumed would be better optimized and the numbers were exactly what I would've expected, in fact I could say better than expected.

Once again thank you guys so much for helping me out and giving me such valuable insight. This is exactly why I came to Toms Hardware to ask some questions as I always get prompt and detailed replies.

PS: I'd love to close this thread but I'm not sure how :ROFLMAO: If a mod could help me out there that'd be great.
 

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