Question Ryzen 5 3600 High temperature problem & Undervolting

Apr 18, 2020
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Hello everyone, I got my new pc 2 weeks ago but I'm still trying to decrease my CPU's temp.

My case is CoolerMaster MB501L, I've 4 fans , 3 at front 1 at back. Air circulation is nice. My mainboard is MSI X570 Pro Carbon Wifi. I'm using stock fan for my Ryzen 5 3600.

I just clean my thermal paste and applied it again, there is no change. I deactivated PBO and CPB from BIOS, at idle when the power mode is at Balanced, CPU uses 3.6 GhZ and temp. is between 45-48 C. When I change mode from MSI Dragon Center to "Gaming Mode", CPU boosts the GhZ to 4.15 and my temperatures are suddenly come to 85-95 C. Do I have to use MSI Dragon Center ? I'm about to uninstall it because I think it don't works nice with Windows Power Management.

I want to fix this and I want to change the CPU Core Voltage and CPU Clock Ratio. I want a stable system, I dont want to boost to 4.2 GhZ. I'll try 4.1 ( clock ratio 41). What value of CPU Core Voltage do I have to try ? I'll do it from BIOS. And after restart, what kind of test do I use to apply ? Realbench ? Prime 95 ? Cinbench R15 or Cinebench R20 ?

Thanks for your answers.
 

getochkn

Polypheme
Moderator
There is no reason you should be undervolting a brand new system. Is it the wraith cooler that came with it? Those are usually pretty decent for stock usage.

Also, putting on thermal paste is one of the single things people mess up and put too much on and it's worse.
 
Apr 18, 2020
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There is no reason you should be undervolting a brand new system. Is it the wraith cooler that came with it? Those are usually pretty decent for stock usage.

Also, putting on thermal paste is one of the single things people mess up and put too much on and it's worse.
Thanks for your answer.

I didn't put too much thermal paste, I watched many videos about it. What would you suggest me to do for a stable system ? I want to play games on 4.1 GhZ but I can't now because of the high voltage and high temperature. I want to set a limit on voltage to decrease my temperature.

I play CS GO or PUBG on balanced mode at 3.6GhZ and my CPU is 60-65 C while gaming. But If I pass to High Performance, 80-90 C for CPU is a little bit high for me.
 

kurban2213

Honorable
Feb 3, 2015
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10,530
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Emre aynı olay bende oldu, sıkıntı 3600un stock fanı berbat, 90 derece cıkarıyor kasayı, işlemci sogutucu alman gerek tepe performansta kullanman icin ben dark freezer x126 aldım , nihai performansta 75i geçmiyor fan seside kesildi
 
Hello everyone, I got my new pc 2 weeks ago but I'm still trying to decrease my CPU's temp.

My case is CoolerMaster MB501L, I've 4 fans , 3 at front 1 at back. Air circulation is nice. My mainboard is MSI X570 Pro Carbon Wifi. I'm using stock fan for my Ryzen 5 3600.

I just clean my thermal paste and applied it again, there is no change. I deactivated PBO and CPB from BIOS, at idle when the power mode is at Balanced, CPU uses 3.6 GhZ and temp. is between 45-48 C. When I change mode from MSI Dragon Center to "Gaming Mode", CPU boosts the GhZ to 4.15 and my temperatures are suddenly come to 85-95 C. Do I have to use MSI Dragon Center ? I'm about to uninstall it because I think it don't works nice with Windows Power Management.

I want to fix this and I want to change the CPU Core Voltage and CPU Clock Ratio. I want a stable system, I dont want to boost to 4.2 GhZ. I'll try 4.1 ( clock ratio 41). What value of CPU Core Voltage do I have to try ? I'll do it from BIOS. And after restart, what kind of test do I use to apply ? Realbench ? Prime 95 ? Cinbench R15 or Cinebench R20 ?

Thanks for your answers.
I'd suggest not running MSI's Dragon Center software. Also, don't run CPB in BIOS.

But most important is to know how you are reading temperature. I suggest getting HWInfo64, look for Tdie average. Also, Tctl/Tdie which it will spike a lot when the system is set up right but that's normal. You can also use Ryzenmaster, it's also an averaging temperature read-out.

Ryzen will always boost to rated clocks at idle, they call it a 'rush to idle'. That boosting is what makes the temps spike too; it's the way it works and is perfectly normal. DO NOT change clock ratios, leave both those and voltage at AUTO.

85-95C is very high, but cleaning up and removing that MSI software and not trying to manual all-core overclock will help with that. Manual overclocking by changing ratios and voltage from AUTO is not recommended because AMD has gotten all the goodness out of the processor with the boosting algorithm. If you do it you get the problems you're having and most likely worse performance, not better, unless you really know what you're about.
 
Apr 18, 2020
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Emre aynı olay bende oldu, sıkıntı 3600un stock fanı berbat, 90 derece cıkarıyor kasayı, işlemci sogutucu alman gerek tepe performansta kullanman icin ben dark freezer x126 aldım , nihai performansta 75i geçmiyor fan seside kesildi
çok teşekkürler hocam. PBO + CPB falan kapattınız mı ? BIOS'tan Voltaj ayarı yaptınız mı peki ?

buy custom cpu cooler, in high performance mode stock amd cooler failing thats why you should get good cpu cooler
thank u so much, I'll take a look.
 
Reactions: kurban2213
Apr 18, 2020
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I'd suggest not running MSI's Dragon Center software. Also, don't run CPB in BIOS.

But most important is to know how you are reading temperature. I suggest getting HWInfo64, look for Tdie average. Also, Tctl/Tdie which it will spike a lot when the system is set up right but that's normal. You can also use Ryzenmaster, it's also an averaging temperature read-out.

Ryzen will always boost to rated clocks at idle, they call it a 'rush to idle'. That boosting is what makes the temps spike too; it's the way it works and is perfectly normal. DO NOT change clock ratios, leave both those and voltage at AUTO.

85-95C is very high, but cleaning up and removing that MSI software and not trying to manual all-core overclock will help with that. Manual overclocking by changing ratios and voltage from AUTO is not recommended because AMD has gotten all the goodness out of the processor with the boosting algorithm. If you do it you get the problems you're having and most likely worse performance, not better, unless you really know what you're about.
Okay, I'm gonna uninstall MSI Dragon Center and use Windows Power Management.

Are there any option without MSI Dragon Center for controlling my SSD - RAM and MB RGB Led's ?
 
Okay, I'm gonna uninstall MSI Dragon Center and use Windows Power Management.

Are there any option without MSI Dragon Center for controlling my SSD - RAM and MB RGB Led's ?
aaaaahhh... ok... I don't RGB my MSI boards, don't know what options you got besides that. But definitely don't use it for controlling processor clocks or fans; use BIOS for that.

But also don't use Windows Power Management. The processor controls itself, that's a major feature of Ryzen. The thing you do is install the chipset drivers from AMD web site . That installs a special power plan...the Ryzen Balanced plan...you just use it. It's set up to let the processor manage itself.

The thing is, though: Ryzen 3000 processors do not overclock well. It takes a lot of fiddling and has very narrow margin for success and being unsuccessful can easily mean early degradation of the processor (not destroying it, just degrading it). So leave voltage and multiplier in auto.
 
Apr 18, 2020
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aaaaahhh... ok... I don't RGB my MSI boards, don't know what options you got besides that. But definitely don't use it for controlling processor clocks or fans; use BIOS for that.

But also don't use Windows Power Management. The processor controls itself, that's a major feature of Ryzen. The thing you do is install the chipset drivers from AMD web site . That installs a special power plan...the Ryzen Balanced plan...you just use it. It's set up to let the processor manage itself.

The thing is, though: Ryzen 3000 processors do not overclock well. It takes a lot of fiddling and has very narrow margin for success and being unsuccessful can easily mean early degradation of the processor (not destroying it, just degrading it). So leave voltage and multiplier in auto.
Okay but when I will be AFK, I want to set it to power saving mode, while I'm gaming, high performance mode. I need to use Windows Power Management for this properties ? I already installed drivers.
 
Okay but when I will be AFK, I want to set it to power saving mode, while I'm gaming, high performance mode. I need to use Windows Power Management for this properties ? I already installed drivers.
No reason at all to ever use any of Window's power plans and don't change the Ryzen power plans, even when you go AFK. Doin' so will probably make your system use even more power. Let me 'splain....

Ryzen makes power state decision 100 times a second...once every millisecond. When it decides that it's not working a core it puts that core into a C6 deep sleep state; basically power gating the entire core. It doesn't just do this when you go AFK either; it does this in the middle of light processing tasks like web browsing. That's really the secret of Ryzen's xtremely high efficiency.

Using the unaltered Ryzen power plans lets the processor take over the power saving decisions from Windows older, slower methods. Windows, in contrast, works maybe 10 times slower and can't put the processor into C6 deep sleep without turning right around and waking it back up from it. It's only real way to save power is put the system to 'sleep' when it's idle and you haven't touched it for a couple minutes or whatever you set it for.

So let Ryzen's advanced power saving features work: make sure Global C States is enabled in BIOS, always use a Ryzen Balanced power plan and leave the 'Minimum Processor' setting at 99%, as it came. That lets the processor do it's thing.

BTW...no utility can actually ask the processor what it's current power state is without waking it up from C6. So all you usually see, if monitoring over time, is the last voltage and clock it was in when it dropped into C6. HWInfo64 can infer an estimate of the time it was in C6 and reports that for each core. Not sure how accurate it is, but it's the best thing going right now as far as I know.
 
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Apr 10, 2020
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No reason at all to ever use any of Window's power plans and don't change the Ryzen power plans, even when you go AFK. Doin' so will probably make your system use even more power. Let me 'splain....

Ryzen makes power state decision 100 times a second...once every millisecond. When it decides that it's not working a core it puts that core into a C6 deep sleep state; basically power gating the entire core. It doesn't just do this when you go AFK either; it does this in the middle of light processing tasks like web browsing. That's really the secret of Ryzen's xtremely high efficiency.

Using the unaltered Ryzen power plans lets the processor take over the power saving decisions from Windows older, slower methods. Windows, in contrast, works maybe 10 times slower and can't put the processor into C6 deep sleep without turning right around and waking it back up from it. It's only real way to save power is put the system to 'sleep' when it's idle and you haven't touched it for a couple minutes or whatever you set it for.

So let Ryzen's advanced power saving features work: make sure Global C States is enabled in BIOS, always use a Ryzen Balanced power plan and leave the 'Minimum Processor' setting at 99%, as it came. That lets the processor do it's thing.

BTW...no utility can actually ask the processor what it's current power state is without waking it up from C6. So all you usually see, if monitoring over time, is the last voltage and clock it was in when it dropped into C6. HWInfo64 can infer an estimate of the time it was in C6 and reports that for each core. Not sure how accurate it is, but it's the best thing going right now as far as I know.
so, in my bios i shouldnt change the voltage setting to normal? i tried to undervolt a tad and it wouldnnt boot. My cpu voltage is spiking to 1.45 sometimes, and under load it stays there. in bios it says vcore voltage at auto, which is the vrm power delivery right? how would i change my actual cpu voltage to say 1.35
 
so, in my bios i shouldnt change the voltage setting to normal? i tried to undervolt a tad and it wouldnnt boot. My cpu voltage is spiking to 1.45 sometimes, and under load it stays there. in bios it says vcore voltage at auto, which is the vrm power delivery right? how would i change my actual cpu voltage to say 1.35
I'm not sure what you mean by 'normal'...is that the same as AUTO? I'd suggest leaving it in AUTO. AMD has repeatedly said that it will spike voltage as high as 1.5V as it boosts core clocks on light bursty loads. Leaving it in auto lets the processor lower it's voltage, along with the clock speeds, to protect itself as it processes heavier loads and gets hot. Lowering it with a fixed voltage might make it unstable since it can no longer adjust voltage itself.

If you want to try a slight 'undervolt' use offset and lower one or two 'notches'. Using offset adjustments still lets the processor raise and lower it as needs. Be careful though, too much of an offset may lower performance.
 
Apr 18, 2020
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No reason at all to ever use any of Window's power plans and don't change the Ryzen power plans, even when you go AFK. Doin' so will probably make your system use even more power. Let me 'splain....

Ryzen makes power state decision 100 times a second...once every millisecond. When it decides that it's not working a core it puts that core into a C6 deep sleep state; basically power gating the entire core. It doesn't just do this when you go AFK either; it does this in the middle of light processing tasks like web browsing. That's really the secret of Ryzen's xtremely high efficiency.

Using the unaltered Ryzen power plans lets the processor take over the power saving decisions from Windows older, slower methods. Windows, in contrast, works maybe 10 times slower and can't put the processor into C6 deep sleep without turning right around and waking it back up from it. It's only real way to save power is put the system to 'sleep' when it's idle and you haven't touched it for a couple minutes or whatever you set it for.

So let Ryzen's advanced power saving features work: make sure Global C States is enabled in BIOS, always use a Ryzen Balanced power plan and leave the 'Minimum Processor' setting at 99%, as it came. That lets the processor do it's thing.

BTW...no utility can actually ask the processor what it's current power state is without waking it up from C6. So all you usually see, if monitoring over time, is the last voltage and clock it was in when it dropped into C6. HWInfo64 can infer an estimate of the time it was in C6 and reports that for each core. Not sure how accurate it is, but it's the best thing going right now as far as I know.
In power saving mode, Cpu works in 2.2 GhZ. Balance Mode, 3.6 GhZ. I can understand the CPU's working type but isn't it harmful for CPU to work in 3.6 GhZ all the time ?

In BIOS, I didn't change CPU Core Ratio , it is still in auto. But my CPU can work in 4.2 GhZ max with correct settings. If I leave it in auto, I can't use 4.1 or 4.2 GhZ. How can I use them then without changing any settings?

The only option to use them is MSI Dragon Center's Game Mode. When I turn it on, the frequency suddenly jumps to 4.15 GhZ.
 
In power saving mode, Cpu works in 2.2 GhZ. Balance Mode, 3.6 GhZ. I can understand the CPU's working type but isn't it harmful for CPU to work in 3.6 GhZ all the time ?

In BIOS, I didn't change CPU Core Ratio , it is still in auto. But my CPU can work in 4.2 GhZ max with correct settings. If I leave it in auto, I can't use 4.1 or 4.2 GhZ. How can I use them then without changing any settings?

The only option to use them is MSI Dragon Center's Game Mode. When I turn it on, the frequency suddenly jumps to 4.15 GhZ.
When cores are sitting at 3.6Ghz its isn't really the operating clock. Most of the time it's the last state it was in before dropping into a C6 deep sleep state.

Leave volts in auto and multiplier in auto, it's best for operation.

The way Ryzen works is to boost as high as it can from low clocks (like 3.6Ghz, or even C6 sleep state) when a light bursty task comes along. That way it gets the task done as fast as possible so it can return to idle and go to sleep again. Since Windows is always doing something in the background, you'll see those spikes in clock and voltage as it boosts to get them done. Voltage may spike up to 1.5V and the temperature spikes seen in instantaneous reading utilities are very low energy since they're very short in duration. It's normal all perfectly normal. Look at an average temperature to get an idea of true thermal state.

When the processor gets an extremely heavy processing load it will lower the boost clock and voltage to something it can sustain at a safe temperature. The better your cooling, the higher the clock will be under load because it can keep temperature low.

The way to make sure it's boosting right (you may have done this, just going over it again): first make sure your board has the latest BIOS with AGESA 1004b, then install the latest chipset driver from AMD's support site. Then run the Ryzen Balanced plan, unaltered.

In BIOS leave Voltage and Multiplier on AUTO. Find the following settings and make them ENABLED: AMD Cool'N'Quiet, Global (or Advanced) C States, Processor CPPC, Processor CPPC Preferred Cores.

That should get everything working well. You could, if you wanted, find PBO and set it to Enabled, Manual settings, and set PPT to 300, EDC and TDC to 230. That helps it by removing motherboard limitations.
 
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Apr 18, 2020
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When cores are sitting at 3.6Ghz its isn't really the operating clock. Most of the time it's the last state it was in before dropping into a C6 deep sleep state.

Leave volts in auto and multiplier in auto, it's best for operation.

The way Ryzen works is to boost as high as it can from low clocks (like 3.6Ghz, or even C6 sleep state) when a light bursty task comes along. That way it gets the task done as fast as possible so it can return to idle and go to sleep again. Since Windows is always doing something in the background, you'll see those spikes in clock and voltage as it boosts to get them done. It's normal.

When the processor gets an extremely heavy processing load it will lower the boost clock and voltage to something it can sustain at a safe temperature. The better your cooling, the higher the clock will be under load because it can keep temperature low.

The way to make sure it's boosting right (you may have done this, just going over it again): first make sure your board has the latest BIOS with AGESA 1004b, then install the latest chipset driver from AMD's support site. Then run the Ryzen Balanced plan, unaltered.

In BIOS leave Voltage and Multiplier on AUTO. Find the following settings and make them ENABLED: AMD Cool'N'Quiet, Global (or Advanced) C States, Processor CPPC, Processor CPPC Preferred Cores.

That should get everything working well. You could, if you wanted, find PBO and set it to Enabled, Manual settings, and set PPT to 300, EDC and TDC to 230. That helps it by removing motherboard limitations.
Okay, so you say " You can see it 3.6 GhZ, but Ryzen will boost it to 4.15 and you don't see it in the settings ?"
 
Apr 18, 2020
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No...I'm saying you can see it at 3.6Ghz but it's actually in C6 deep sleep; clock 0, volts nearly 0.

Read the rest, I show you how to get good boosting behaviour from your system. You'll only get good boosting once set up right.
Thanks for ur answer, I read all of them.

But my cPU's max boost is 4.2, how can I see 4.2 GhZ with unaltered Ryzen Balanced Mode ?
 
Thanks for ur answer, I read all of them.

But my cPU's max boost is 4.2, how can I see 4.2 GhZ with unaltered Ryzen Balanced Mode ?
To MAKE it boost:
"The way to make sure it's boosting right (you may have done this, just going over it again): first make sure your board has the latest BIOS with AGESA 1004b, then install the latest chipset driver from AMD's support site. Then run the Ryzen Balanced plan, unaltered.

In BIOS leave Voltage and Multiplier on AUTO. Find the following settings and make them ENABLED: AMD Cool'N'Quiet, Global (or Advanced) C States, Processor CPPC, Processor CPPC Preferred Cores.

That should get everything working well. You could, if you wanted, find PBO and set it to Enabled, Manual settings, and set PPT to 300, EDC and TDC to 230. That helps it by removing motherboard limitations."

To SEE it boost:
Get HWINfo64. Set the polling period to 500mSec. Now watch the Core Ratio or Core Clock readings.

You should see it boosts in light bursty processing tasks. One I like to do is run a Defender quick scan. Mine boosts on 5 cores (a 3700x) but only 1 at a time. If you run heavier tasks the boosting will lessen as the cores heat up. If the task is extremely heavy like Prime95 it may drop all the way to the base clock, 3.6Ghz. If you set it up like I show above, and cooling is decent, it should drop only to 4.0Ghz range or even higher with even better cooling.
 
Apr 18, 2020
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To MAKE it boost:
"The way to make sure it's boosting right (you may have done this, just going over it again): first make sure your board has the latest BIOS with AGESA 1004b, then install the latest chipset driver from AMD's support site. Then run the Ryzen Balanced plan, unaltered.

In BIOS leave Voltage and Multiplier on AUTO. Find the following settings and make them ENABLED: AMD Cool'N'Quiet, Global (or Advanced) C States, Processor CPPC, Processor CPPC Preferred Cores.

That should get everything working well. You could, if you wanted, find PBO and set it to Enabled, Manual settings, and set PPT to 300, EDC and TDC to 230. That helps it by removing motherboard limitations."

To SEE it boost:
Get HWINfo64. Set the polling period to 500mSec. Now watch the Core Ratio or Core Clock readings.

You should see it boosts in light bursty processing tasks. One I like to do is run a Defender quick scan. Mine boosts on 5 cores (a 3700x) but only 1 at a time. If you run heavier tasks the boosting will lessen as the cores heat up. If the task is extremely heavy like Prime95 it may drop all the way to the base clock, 3.6Ghz. If you set it up like I show above, and cooling is decent, it should drop only to 4.0Ghz range or even higher with even better cooling.
My drivers are all up to date.

"In BIOS leave Voltage and Multiplier on AUTO. Find the following settings and make them ENABLED: AMD Cool'N'Quiet, Global (or Advanced) C States, Processor CPPC, Processor CPPC Preferred Cores."

Voltage and Clock ratio is auto.. All settings are default. Do I have to change Global C States, Processor CPPC Preffered Cores ? What will change when I make these enabled ? What are these for ?

I'll test with Prime95 for 5-6 mins to see max temp.

Then I'll test with RealBench, but max GhZ will be 3.6 again I think ?
 
My drivers are all up to date.

"In BIOS leave Voltage and Multiplier on AUTO. Find the following settings and make them ENABLED: AMD Cool'N'Quiet, Global (or Advanced) C States, Processor CPPC, Processor CPPC Preferred Cores."

Voltage and Clock ratio is auto.. All settings are default. Do I have to change Global C States, Processor CPPC Preffered Cores ? What will change when I make these enabled ? What are these for ?

I'll test with Prime95 for 5-6 mins to see max temp.

Then I'll test with RealBench, but max GhZ will be 3.6 again I think ?
AMD Cool'n'Quiet and Global C States enable the processor to use it's enhanced power saving features: CnQ used to be AMD's proprietary term for 'throttling back' the clocks of processors when idle. C states are the power saving processor states, in Ryzen's case the important one is C6 or 'deep sleep' when it turns clocks off and reduces voltage to 0 or almost 0 as often as it can, up to 100 times a second. Unbelieveably, it even finds time to do it in the middle of heavy processing tasks like Folding@Home.

Processor CPPC (can't remember the meaning of CPPC) is the ability of the processor to talk to the OS telling it which are the 'best' cores of the processor. The 'preferred cores' setting also tells the processor to respond to the OS when it schedules work threads on certain (preferred) cores to boost as high as thermal and VRM power margins allow. I think I got this right...there's a lot of chatter from AMD that also talk about it if you want to google it.

If you've set everything as I noted, and your case doesn't have hopelessly poor ventilation, the processor really should stay well over 3.6Ghz even in Prime95. I'd expect it to settle in around 3.9-4.0...maybe up to 4.1 for a 3600 especially if on really good cooling.
 

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