[SOLVED] Ryzen 5 3600 stock settings and cooler too hot to play games

[Eth0s_]

Built this system yesterday with a new Ryzen 5 3600 CPU (using included cooler and thermal paste), and its temps are idling at mid 60's with my case closed (no programs running besides Ryzen Master, nothing downloading in the background, tested for 20-30 minute segments across several boots). Since I didn't like the temps spiking to the mid 70's to low 80's when opening simple applications, etc., I decided to just take the side of the case off for the time being and use a small external fan blowing in the PC.

Even with the external fan and side panel removed I am idling at low to mid 40's, which might not sound too bad, but pretty much any game I play has me at 80C+ within an hour. No Man's Sky reached 92C within minutes, so I'm unable to even play that game safely. I mean Prime95 hit 92C in 3 minutes... basically same results as No Man's Sky. I have had both case fans and the CPU fan set to only run at 100%. Enabling XMP and setting the fan strengths are the ONLY changes I have made in the BIOS. The CPU (and mobo and GPU) clock speed and voltages are running at stock.

When installing the cooler to the CPU I made sure to only begin to thread the first screw before only starting the diagonal one, so on and so forth. It's receiving equal pressure on all 4 screws and I made sure to double check that before I even put the board in my case.

I'm honestly pretty stumped here. I hear about others using the stock cooler and achieving much lower temps. I wouldn't even mind the idles so much if I weren't averaging in the low 90's by simply playing a game (while blowing extra air into the system). I mean I was just running an FX 6300 before upgrading. Same case, same case fans, a better cooler (hyper 212 LED), and it was overclocked to a constant 4.5Ghz stable with 10C to spare at thermal margin even at the worst case scenarios. Obviously the cooler helps there but still... how am I hitting the danger zone with this CPU at stock settings?

Specs:
CPU: Ryzen 5 3600 (stock settings)
GPU: EVGA GTX 1070 Superclocked (stock settings)
MB: ASRock Fatal1ty B450 Gaming K4 (stock voltages)
RAM: CMW32GX4M2C3200C16 (default XMP profile: 3200 Mhz C16)
PSU: Rosewill Green Series RG530-S12 530W
Case: Rosewill Tyrfing (1 intake fan on front, 1 outtake fan on back)

 

[Phaaze88]

1)Since this was an upgrade, and not a fresh build, did you reinstall Windows? You need to do that to flush out the old FX drivers and files.

2)After that, update the motherboard's bios and all of it's drivers.

3)You case cooling is an issue too, and your idle temps after removing the front and side panels are proof of that.
The reason the load temps didn't change much has to do with the nature of Ryzen 3000 - it cannot be compared to Intel's cpus or even the older Ryzen models.
It will try to boost to max depending on thermal headroom; the cpu's frequency was most likely higher with the case panels off than they were on.

 

[Eth0s_]

1)Since this was an upgrade, and not a fresh build, did you reinstall Windows? You need to do that to flush out the old FX drivers and files.

2)After that, update the motherboard's bios and all of it's drivers.

3)You case cooling is an issue too, and your idle temps after removing the front and side panels are proof of that.
The reason the load temps didn't change much has to do with the nature of Ryzen 3000 - it cannot be compared to Intel's cpus or even the older Ryzen models.
It will try to boost to max depending on thermal headroom; the cpu's frequency was most likely higher with the case panels off than they were on.

1. Yeah, fresh install of Windows on a new SSD.

2. I'm running the second latest version of my BIOS, 3.9 (description: Update AMD AGESA Combo-AM4 1.0.0.4 Patch B). The newest version is less than a month old, 4.1 (description:
1. Add auto rule for specific memory module.
2. Improve Smart Fan function.)
In other words, I would be really surprised if an update that recent with that description would be improving my CPU temps. I try to avoid flashing new BIOS unless absolutely necessary but I guess I might be getting to that point...

3. Yeah the case cooling needs to and will be improved. Still, I can't imagine it will drop idle temps 20C (like removing the side panel and blowing a small box fan into the system did) by slapping a few fans in there.

Also, I've read every thread related to 3600 temps I can find online, and there's a few people out there saying stuff like "running low 90's/high 80's in a gaming session isn't a big deal on these chips" but I'm perhaps paranoid in thinking they are wrong and that I shouldn't be hitting temps like that without running a stress test or benchmark.. What do you think?

 

[Shay Green]

1. Yeah, fresh install of Windows on a new SSD.

2. I'm running the second latest version of my BIOS, 3.9 (description: Update AMD AGESA Combo-AM4 1.0.0.4 Patch B). The newest version is less than a month old, 4.1 (description:
1. Add auto rule for specific memory module.
2. Improve Smart Fan function.)
In other words, I would be really surprised if an update that recent with that description would be improving my CPU temps. I try to avoid flashing new BIOS unless absolutely necessary but I guess I might be getting to that point...

3. Yeah the case cooling needs to and will be improved. Still, I can't imagine it will drop idle temps 20C (like removing the side panel and blowing a small box fan into the system did) by slapping a few fans in there.

Also, I've read every thread related to 3600 temps I can find online, and there's a few people out there saying stuff like "running low 90's/high 80's in a gaming session isn't a big deal on these chips" but I'm perhaps paranoid in thinking they are wrong and that I shouldn't be hitting temps like that without running a stress test or benchmark.. What do you think?

You could go into the bios and set the cpu fan curve to run faster at lower temps.
My 1600 was set to run at 100% at 90 degrees so I would always reach that temp while gaming, I have since set it to run full speed at 70 and it never goes over 75

 

[Phaaze88]

3. Yeah the case cooling needs to and will be improved. Still, I can't imagine it will drop idle temps 20C (like removing the side panel and blowing a small box fan into the system did) by slapping a few fans in there.

Also, I've read every thread related to 3600 temps I can find online, and there's a few people out there saying stuff like "running low 90's/high 80's in a gaming session isn't a big deal on these chips" but I'm perhaps paranoid in thinking they are wrong and that I shouldn't be hitting temps like that without running a stress test or benchmark.. What do you think?

Adding a few fans won't improve temps by a whole 20C, but the panel test shows just how insufficient your case's airflow is currently.
You shouldn't see more than like a 5C difference in a decent case with panels on/off.

I agree with those other people - to a point. Temps like that make more sense in laptops. For desktops, that most likely indicates a cooling issue.

As I said earlier, you won't see a significant drop in load temps due to Ryzen 3000's behavior. You have to take note of the cpu boost frequencies through Ryzen Master.
The better your cooling is, the higher those frequencies will be.

 

[Eth0s_]

You could go into the bios and set the cpu fan curve to run faster at lower temps.
My 1600 was set to run at 100% at 90 degrees so I would always reach that temp while gaming, I have since set it to run full speed at 70 and it never goes over 75

I've actually had my fans running full speed since I first looked at my temps, sadly.

 

[Eth0s_]

Adding a few fans won't improve temps by a whole 20C, but the panel test shows just how insufficient your case's airflow is currently.
You shouldn't see more than like a 5C difference in a decent case with panels on/off.

I agree with those other people - to a point. Temps like that make more sense in laptops. For desktops, that most likely indicates a cooling issue.

As I said earlier, you won't see a significant drop in load temps due to Ryzen 3000's behavior. You have to take note of the cpu boost frequencies through Ryzen Master.
The better your cooling is, the higher those frequencies will be.

I definitely appreciate the insight. With regards to the (my) temps in a desktop being indicative of a cooling issue, I believe you're right but would it be risky to my hardware to continue gaming on it while I wait for a new cooler to ship? I havent got to that step yet but I'm likely going to get an aftermarket cooler if I cant find a way to fix my issue via undervolting, re-installing the stock cooler, or finally, a BIOS update.

 

[Phaaze88]

Leave everything on auto in the bios, save and exit, turn the PC off, take that front fan, and mount it in the top as exhaust.
You'll have top and rear exhaust, and it may help temps better than one front intake and one rear intake.

 

[bigpinkdragon286]

The bottom line is, the stock CPU cooler that comes with the R5 3600 performs very poorly. If you don't like the temps, the solution is to upgrade to a better cooler, such as a Hyper 212, which will give you somewhere in the ballpark of 15° C lower temps. Unfortunately, AMD shipping the R5 3600 with such an under performing cooler diminishes the value proposition for that CPU SKU.

I personally would not run with the stock cooler as those temperatures are well beyond what I consider to be reasonable for running a desktop CPU at long term. Even if the CPU handles the high temperatures and reaches it's expected lifespan, other components around it may not cope as well. Finally, when the CPU is running that hot, it's very likely leaving performance on the table in the form of lower maximum boost clocks. I'm not a fan of settling for worse performance when all I need to do is equip my CPU with a better cooler. You should consider investing in a decent, big air cooler, which you can continue using with future CPU upgrades. There are often mounting kits available from manufactures for their better air coolers to support new socket / motherboard mounts.

 

[GarrettL]

Does the stock cooler have a high/low switch on it for the fan? They often come set on low.

 

[Eth0s_]

Thanks for the tips guys. Life's been hectic and wasn't able to keep up with this thread but I've got a new cooler coming in tomorrow and am going to move the intake fan to the top for extra exhaust

 

[Eth0s_]

If anyone comes across this thread having the same issues, here's what I did and how it's worked out so far.

I updated to the latest version of my BIOS (which seemingly had no effect for me but it might for you).

I installed a new Hyper 212 Black cooler with the supplied thermal paste.

I put the side panel back on my computer (which means higher temps for me).

Now after running Prime95 blend test for 30 minutes I averaged ~80c with some jumps up to ~83c occasionally. If you compare this to my former 92c in 3 minutes with the stock cooler, side panel of case off, and blowing in external air, this is a huge drop in CPU temps.

A lot of people say the stock cooler is fine and achieves much lower temps than I got, and sure, my case ventilation is quite bad, but still, obviously your mileage will vary with the stock cooler even if you don't plan on overclocking. Maybe I somehow got a poor cooler or perhaps they've cheaped out on the materials recently but for me using it was not an option.

I still plan to order more fans to get better airflow running in my case, or perhaps a new case entirely. Not sure yet. But learn from my mistakes and make sure you've got very solid case cooling if you plan on running the stock cooler. If not, you'll likely want to order an aftermarket cooler.

Edit: oh yeah. My idle temps with the case panels on has dropped from low 60's to low-mid 30's. The new cooler blows directly into my back outtake fan which I suspect is making a big difference there.

 

[Karadjgne]

Ryzens are new, still. And unlike the lga11xx series, there's still stuff to be discovered. For instance nobody really ever worried about current. It was all vcore voltages that people obsessed over. AMD has stated publically that Ryzens are good for upto 1.5v, and thats true. With low current loads, that are regulated by Ryzen Master. It's also been stated that 1.325v is safe, for high current loads. But then people overclock and stick to around 1.325v and don't realize that the added current to get the added wattage is still frying the cpu.

This is only coming to light now with people actually having some time to create a history. It's not something that could have been predicted, or to what extent.

Many also have no clue about how Ryzen works, they assume it follows Intel behavior, and are flat wrong. Intel at idle lowers clocks and voltages on all cores, but all cores remain active. So any background tasks get the load split up across all cores. Low load equals low temps across the entire cpu. With Ryzen at idle, it shuts down the unused cores entirely, save 1. The entire background task list is on that 1 core, concentrated. Higher load equals higher temps, but only on one core, not the entire cpu. So idle temps of 40's and 50's are absolutely normal behavior.

Power plan should be balanced. Ryzens are self regulating. They'll boost as needed, as high as voltages and current and temps allow. Setting Performance plan tells the cpu its needed always, so it's always at boost state And telling the cpu to ignore temps. So you get idiots with 80's and 90's under loads because they've set PBO enabled, maximum performance, locked voltages (not current) and insisted the cpu live upto the OC clocks.

Intels are set for maximum performance, at all costs, and it's upto you to supply the cooling necessary for that to happen. Ryzen are designed to remove you from the equation, it'll perform its best under the circumstances it has. Ryzen cpus want to protect themselves, Intel wants you to protect it. Big difference.

It's a 3600. Comes with the Stealth Wraith. It's not designed as a uber heavy workload cpu. That's what the upgraded coolers on the 3700x + are designed for. You've got a 100w cooler on a 65w cpu. It's not going to perform the same as the 140w Hyper212 series.

 

[Eth0s_]

Ryzens are new, still. And unlike the lga11xx series, there's still stuff to be discovered. For instance nobody really ever worried about current. It was all vcore voltages that people obsessed over. AMD has stated publically that Ryzens are good for upto 1.5v, and thats true. With low current loads, that are regulated by Ryzen Master. It's also been stated that 1.325v is safe, for high current loads. But then people overclock and stick to around 1.325v and don't realize that the added current to get the added wattage is still frying the cpu.

This is only coming to light now with people actually having some time to create a history. It's not something that could have been predicted, or to what extent.

Many also have no clue about how Ryzen works, they assume it follows Intel behavior, and are flat wrong. Intel at idle lowers clocks and voltages on all cores, but all cores remain active. So any background tasks get the load split up across all cores. Low load equals low temps across the entire cpu. With Ryzen at idle, it shuts down the unused cores entirely, save 1. The entire background task list is on that 1 core, concentrated. Higher load equals higher temps, but only on one core, not the entire cpu. So idle temps of 40's and 50's are absolutely normal behavior.

Power plan should be balanced. Ryzens are self regulating. They'll boost as needed, as high as voltages and current and temps allow. Setting Performance plan tells the cpu its needed always, so it's always at boost state And telling the cpu to ignore temps. So you get idiots with 80's and 90's under loads because they've set PBO enabled, maximum performance, locked voltages (not current) and insisted the cpu live upto the OC clocks.

Intels are set for maximum performance, at all costs, and it's upto you to supply the cooling necessary for that to happen. Ryzen are designed to remove you from the equation, it'll perform its best under the circumstances it has. Ryzen cpus want to protect themselves, Intel wants you to protect it. Big difference.

It's a 3600. Comes with the Stealth Wraith. It's not designed as a uber heavy workload cpu. That's what the upgraded coolers on the 3700x + are designed for. You've got a 100w cooler on a 65w cpu. It's not going to perform the same as the 140w Hyper212 series.

These are all great points, but even using the stock cooler to game for me wasn't working out. I just don't feel comfortable letting my CPU run at 90c+ while playing games like No Man's Sky and Rainbow 6 Siege. I imagine other/newer games will potentially be even more demanding on the CPU than that. Even on a balanced power plan and CPU running fully stock I wasn't able to use my CPU for gaming with the stock cooler. I've seen some similar threads and some totally different experiences.

 

[Karadjgne]

Yes. In order to keep temps down during heavy workloads like those games are, you'll need to do things like get better cooling, undervolt the gpu, disable PBO etc. It's unfortunate, amd did a really good thing with the stock cooling, it's far better than Intels offerings and eons better than the old stock noisemakers they offered, but they needed to step up one more notch, a Prism/Max on the 3600 and something along the lines of the Fuma/Mugen5 200w coolers for the 3700x +.

One thing I just noticed. In bios, 2nd picture, it shows cpu fan on DC mode. The cooler is a PWM fan, so the control mode should be Auto or PWM. You probably weren't seeing full or even high speeds from that fan. Which would explain the excessive load temps.

 

[p1nkm0nk]

Thanks for posting this Ethos. I'm having the exact same problem except mine has shut down the system twice on me. I should have adequate case cooling but I am starting to see that the stock cooler isn't doing enough to keep the temps down. Perhaps a smaller AIO liquid cooler will do the trick?

 

[bigpinkdragon286]

Small AIO coolers are not very effective. I wouldn't bother with any AIO sporting a radiator smaller than 240mm unless you are prepared for underwhelming performance for the price. You might as well consider going 'big air' at that point.

 

[Karadjgne]

Corsair H80i has almost identical performance to a 240mm H100i for cpu outputs under @ 160w. The Corsair H90 140mm and the nzxt Kraken x42 have better performance than the Corsair H100i for cpu outputs under @ 180w. It's only when above those numbers that the larger capacity 240mm has any advantage.

And then there's always gpu cooling and SFF/mITX cases that are starved for larger capacity coolers but can still mount a 120mm AIO. There are even 200mm aios and 92mm aios available if you look hard enough.

 

[Karadjgne]

What most don't understand is that in their respective ranges, air and liquid are identical capacity. A 140w Corsair H60 has the same capacity as the 140w CM Hyper212. Both have the capacity to handle 140w. Ability is different. The Hyper212 and the Noctua nh U12S are both 140w class coolers. The Noctua has a better designed heatsink tailored to match the Noctua fan. Better efficiency, more effective cooling, lower temps, same capacity. The nhd15 and a 240mm AIO, same capacity. Which gets lower temps depends on ability. Both 250w coolers. At 300w, the Noctua is cooking, a 280mm aio still has 50w of room left, so temps should still be far lower due to greater capacity, but sometimes isn't due to poor ability.

Small 120mm aios are just as affective as any other 140w aircooler as long as the cpu output is under 140w. With larger cpus like the 9900k or even 9700k or older i7's OC pushing 200w+, either will be bunk.

 

[velayo]

I have a similar issue, when running my 3600 under default settings temps go up 60 degrees when iddle. While gaming temps go up to 80+ degrees. Curiously when I overclock all cores to 4200 temps go down to 38 degrees when idle and don't go up more than 55-60 while gaming. So overclocking seems to be the solution to my temperature problems.

 

[Karadjgne]

Yep. There's nothing saying you must add voltage for OC, many times OC means dropping voltages, which gets better temps. It's all dependent on the cpu and the OC.