Samrat97

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I wanna build a pc for 70% Music Production on DAW like Cubase and 30% video editing on Adobe Premiere Pro! / Photoshop, Lightroom
My choices are i7 8700 and Ryzen 5 3600.. (I don't want to overclock)
I already have Corsair vengeance LPX 3000mhz c16 2*8GB RAM.. Will add 2 more in future..
Which one would be great choice for my purpose and also would run better at stock turbo speed..? I won't be able to upgrade the cpu before 4 years at least..

Please help me out..!
 

TechyInAZ

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Core i7 8700. Because you can use the iGPU for accelerated encoding in Adobe Primere, it'll be much faster than the Ryzen 5 3600.

Now I don't know how much power you need for music production, so i guess either one would be good there.
 

Samrat97

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Core i7 8700. Because you can use the iGPU for accelerated encoding in Adobe Primere, it'll be much faster than the Ryzen 5 3600.

Now I don't know how much power you need for music production, so i guess either one would be good there.
Well music production needs more single core performance..!
 

Samrat97

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Core i7 8700. Because you can use the iGPU for accelerated encoding in Adobe Primere, it'll be much faster than the Ryzen 5 3600.

Now I don't know how much power you need for music production, so i guess either one would be good there.
I choose ASUS TUF B365M Plus Gaming.. Is this would be good for 8700 ?
can I able to boost all core 4.3ghz without any issue?? And last for 4years at least?
 

rigg42

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Bb360/365 boards might not allow you to max power limits and turbo duration. That motherboard will almost certainly enforceTDP. I’m pretty sure it won’t run 4.3 all core under full load and will instead run at base clock. Those chipsets are meant to run the CPU’s at TDP and don’t really have the power delivery needed to go over that. I’d buy a budget z370/390. Even then depending on the motherboard you’ll need to manually max power and turbo duration to run the CPU at 4.3 at full load. I had to on the MSI z370 I had with an 8700. I also had to undervolt it with a 120mm tower cooler to keep it under 80c at full load. Plan on a buying a good cooler as well. The z370/390 will also allow you to run faster RAM.

The CPU’s you are comparing are basically identical in computing performance. As TechyinAz pointed out the argument comes down to software optimization. I’d say the intel wins that argument especially for Premier because of quick sync.

I’ve been using Pro Tools for 20 years. I always hated using it on PC so I’ve always stuck to macs for my DAW rigs. I have a G5 TDM rig and a G4 PowerBook native rig that both work fine for what I do to this day. I still use the TDM rig and was still using the PowerBook setup a couple years ago. I’m only using 20-30 tracks of 44.1/24 audio with stock plugs so I don’t need much CPU power. I prefer my more “modern” nehalem 6 core Xeon rig but it’s overkill for me as a dedicated daw rig in all honesty.

I guess my point is that DAW specs are extremely use case dependent. If you are using a lot of VI’s or plugins while trying to monitor in real time than a DAW can be pretty daunting to a CPU. The more you stress the CPU with plugs and VI’s (when running a small buffer in the audio driver) the more single core performance you will need to avoid clicks and pops. Round trip latency is extremely driver dependent as well. Many audio interface venders use crap off the shelf drivers that are modified 3rd party generic drivers. Some of these have terrible round trip latency regardless of the CPU. Using lots of VI’s means lots of RAM as well. I’d plan on 32 gb minimum if using lots of virtual instruments.

That being said, if you are just recording and mixing basic audio with lightweight stock plugins you can use a software/hardware mixer for low latency monitoring in real time and it won’t matter. At that point you really don’t need that much CPU power. I recorded and mixed 100’s of songs on that g4 PowerBook and a digi 002 interface.

At the end of the day It really depends on what you are doing. If you are working with hundreds of audio tracks, using tons of plugins/vi’s, or trying to monitor through the daw with any of the above than you need CPU power. If you aren’t doing those things than you probably don’t.

Perhaps this matters less to you since you are looking to do some video editing as well. Again if it’s 1080p vs 4K video the CPU requirements change.

Some more specifics about your work flow would aid in making recommendations.
 
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Samrat97

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FYI to my knowledge b360/365 boards will not allow you to max power limits and turbo duration. That motherboard will almost certainly enforceTDP. I’m pretty sure it won’t run 4.3 all core under full load and will instead run at base clock. Those chipsets are meant to run the CPU’s at TDP and don’t really have the power delivery needed to go over that. I’d buy a budget z370/390. Even then depending on the motherboard you’ll need to manually max power and turbo duration to run the CPU at 4.3 at full load. I had to on the MSI z370 I had with an 8700. I also had to undervolt it with a 120mm tower cooler to keep it under 80c at full load. Plan on a buying a good cooler as well. The z370/390 will also allow you to run faster RAM.

The CPU’s you are comparing are basically identical in computing performance. As TechyinAz pointed out the argument comes down to software optimization. I’d say the intel wins that argument especially for Premier because of quick sync.

I’ve been using Pro Tools for 20 years. I always hated using it on PC so I’ve always stuck to macs for my DAW rigs. I have a G5 TDM rig and a G4 PowerBook native rig that both work fine for what I do to this day. I still use the TDM rig and was still using the PowerBook setup a couple years ago. I’m only using 20-30 tracks of 44.1/24 audio with stock plugs so I don’t need much CPU power. I prefer my more “modern” nehalem 6 core Xeon rig but it’s overkill for me as a dedicated daw rig in all honesty.

I guess my point is that DAW specs are extremely use case dependent. If you are using a lot of VI’s or plugins while trying to monitor in real time than a DAW can be pretty daunting to a CPU. The more you stress the CPU with plugs and VI’s (when running a small buffer in the audio driver) the more single core performance you will need to avoid clicks and pops. Round trip latency is extremely driver dependent as well. Many audio interface venders use crap off the shelf drivers that are modified 3rd party generic drivers. Some of these have terrible round trip latency regardless of the CPU. Using lots of VI’s means lots of RAM as well. I’d plan on 32 gb minimum if using lots of virtual instruments.

That being said, if you are just recording and mixing basic audio with lightweight stock plugins you can use a software/hardware mixer for low latency monitoring in real time and it won’t matter. At that point you really don’t need that much CPU power. I recorded and mixed 100’s of songs on that g4 PowerBook and a digi 002 interface.

At the end of the day It really depends on what you are doing. If you are working with hundreds of audio tracks, using tons of plugins/vi’s, or trying to monitor through the daw with any of the above than you need CPU power. If you aren’t doing those things than you probably don’t.

Perhaps this matters less to you since you are looking to do some video editing as well. Again if it’s 1080p vs 4K video the CPU requirements change.

Some more specifics about your work flow would aid in making recommendations.
Thank you...
I'm completely beginner right now.. I've just started learning music production and gradually I'll start learning video editing too!
Bt I don't need something for 1-2 years.. That's why I'm worried about it..

Well 8700 has 65w TDP if I add a cooler like Hyper 212 or Gamaxx 400 then I could reach all core 4.3?
Z series motherboard price is so high in India!
 

rigg42

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Thank you...
I'm completely beginner right now.. I've just started learning music production and gradually I'll start learning video editing too!
Bt I don't need something for 1-2 years.. That's why I'm worried about it..

Well 8700 has 65w TDP if I add a cooler like Hyper 212 or Gamaxx 400 then I could reach all core 4.3?
Z series motherboard price is so high in India!
If the motherboard enforces the TDP it will most likely run at base clock at full load. The chances a b365 board won't enforce TDP stock are pretty slim. You may be able to unlock the limits still. I don't know 100%. Even if you can manually unlock the TDP limits you may stress the VRM too much and throttle it. It does have heatsinks so it might be okay. the 8700 @ 4.3ghz w/ stock voltage draws a considerable amount of current. You also can't run your RAM at full speed though you could tighten the timings. It's a bit of a gamble but it could work out.

Intel TDP's are BS.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13544/why-intel-processors-draw-more-power-than-expected-tdp-turbo

I actually used a Gamaxx 400 with my 8700 and z370. Even on z370 I had to manually max all power and turbo duration limits in bios to get it to run at 4.3. It ran at 3.2 ghz at full load other wise. To get temps below 80c on full load I had to under volt it. I'm guessing you ambient room temps are going to be considerably higher than mine.

I suggest you check out Studio One for a DAW and look into Davinci Resolve for video. It's a full blown pro video editing suite and it's free version is incredible. Reaper is also a very powerful free DAW. I'm sure there are decent alternatives to Photoshop and lightroom as well. Adobe's subscription model is garbage with options like Resolve for free. I'm trying to wean myself off of Pro Tools for the same reason.
 

Samrat97

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If the motherboard enforces the TDP it will most likely run at base clock at full load. The chances a b365 board won't enforce TDP stock are pretty slim. You may be able to unlock the limits still. I don't know 100%. Even if you can manually unlock the TDP limits you may stress the VRM too much and throttle it. It does have heatsinks so it might be okay. the 8700 @ 4.3ghz w/ stock voltage draws a considerable amount of current. You also can't run your RAM at full speed though you could tighten the timings. It's a bit of a gamble but it could work out.

Intel TDP's are BS.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13544/why-intel-processors-draw-more-power-than-expected-tdp-turbo

I actually used a Gamaxx 400 with my 8700 and z370. Even on z370 I had to manually max all power and turbo duration limits in bios to get it to run at 4.3. It ran at 3.2 ghz at full load other wise. To get temps below 80c on full load I had to under volt it. I'm guessing you ambient room temps are going to be considerably higher than mine.

I suggest you check out Studio One for a DAW and look into Davinci Resolve for video. It's a full blown pro video editing suite and it's free version is incredible. Reaper is also a very powerful free DAW. I'm sure there are decent alternatives to Photoshop and lightroom as well. Adobe's subscription model is garbage with options like Resolve for free. I'm trying to wean myself off of Pro Tools for the same reason.
Thank you so for this information..
Bt the problem is in my budget I have 2 options for mobo with i7 8700..
Asus tuf b365m plus gaming
Asus rog b365g gaming..

Well I don't what to do as you're saying it'll be a rush to get all 4.3ghz on those motherboard..!
Then what should I do?
I really can't afford z series mobo! Cause my budget is so tight!
 

rigg42

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Thank you so for this information..
Bt the problem is in my budget I have 2 options for mobo with i7 8700..
Asus tuf b365m plus gaming
Asus rog b365g gaming..

Well I don't what to do as you're saying it'll be a rush to get all 4.3ghz on those motherboard..!
Then what should I do?
I really can't afford z series mobo! Cause my budget is so tight!
It's been a while since I had a b360. I think the one I had did let you max out the power and turbo duration now that I think about it. Again I'm not 100% on this. I was using it with an 8100 so it wasn't really relevant. I don't know if this is universal on b360/365 either or if it varies board to board. Either board will probably be okay with some bios tweaks. Between those 2 boards (If the price difference isn't that much) I'd lean toward the ROG personally. Perhaps someone who owns one of these boards will chime in.
 

rigg42

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2666mhz would be fine for me...
I'm confused with all core 4.3ghz on turbo boost.. !!
Would I able to do this? ??
Some people telling yes.. And some people no! 😷
I'll try to explain again.

If you read the article I posted earlier you will see why this is confusing. It explains the issue pretty clearly. Some motherboards enforce the TDP and some don't. The odds are very good that a b365 board will enforce TDP. Intel only guarantees the CPU to run at base clock when fully loaded and operating within the TDP spec. Some motherboards ignore the TDP and let the CPU run at its full all core potential. As I've tried to explain to you, you can get around the TDP limit by manually maxing out all power and turbo duration limits in bios. I know this is possible on z390 and z370 motherboards. I'm pretty sure you can do it on b360/365 but I'm not 100% sure. Another potential issue (assuming you can max the limits) is that the VRM will overheat when loaded heavily and throttle the CPU. I'd need to know what the components in the VRM are to estimate whether or not this would be a potential issue on these motherboards. You will likely be pulling well in excess of 100 amps current in a heavy all core workload with an 8700 at 4.3 ghz. I doubt most b365 boards VRM's can handle that. Both boards at least have VRM heatsinks but may require direct airflow to keep from throttling.
 

Samrat97

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I'll try to explain again.

If you read the article I posted earlier you will see why this is confusing. It explains the issue pretty clearly. Some motherboards enforce the TDP and some don't. The odds are very good that a b365 board will enforce TDP. Intel only guarantees the CPU to run at base clock when fully loaded and operating within the TDP spec. Some motherboards ignore the TDP and let the CPU run at its full all core potential. As I've tried to explain to you, you can get around the TDP limit by manually maxing out all power and turbo duration limits in bios. I know this is possible on z390 and z370 motherboards. I'm pretty sure you can do it on b360/365 but I'm not 100% sure. Another potential issue (assuming you can max the limits) is that the VRM will overheat when loaded heavily and throttle the CPU. I'd need to know what the components in the VRM are to estimate whether or not this would be a potential issue on these motherboards. You will likely be pulling well in excess of 100 amps current in a heavy all core workload with an 8700 at 4.3 ghz. I doubt most b365 boards VRM's can handle that. Both boards at least have VRM heatsinks but may require direct airflow to keep from throttling.
If you don't mind would you check that motherboard I've selected with 8700..
It's ASUS TUF B365M Plus Gaming
https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/TUF-B365M-PLUS-GAMING/

Here it is..!
 

rigg42

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If you don't mind would you check that motherboard I've selected with 8700..
It's ASUS TUF B365M Plus Gaming
https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/TUF-B365M-PLUS-GAMING/

Here it is..!
I'm aware of the motherboards you are looking at. Unless you can find a breakdown of the VRM components somewhere I can't really know. They don't publish the VRM components in the specs. It easy to find this info on motherboards intended for overclocking but not so much for locked motherboards. You might just have to buy the board and test for yourself whether or not it will work for you.
 

Samrat97

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I'm aware of the motherboards you are looking at. Unless you can find a breakdown of the VRM components somewhere I can't really know. They don't publish the VRM components in the specs. It easy to find this info on motherboards intended for overclocking but not so much for locked motherboards. You might just have to buy the board and test for yourself whether or not it will work for you.
Now I'm thinking a CPU like i7 needs a better motherboard for the full performance!
Well I'm thinking about Ryzen 5 3600 with B450 Aorus elite as an alternative option...
Bt I have 3000mhz c16 16GB of RAM..
So this would be okay!?
And ryzen would be good for 4years at least??????
 

rigg42

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Now I'm thinking a CPU like i7 needs a better motherboard for the full performance!
Well I'm thinking about Ryzen 5 3600 with B450 Aorus elite as an alternative option...
Bt I have 3000mhz c16 16GB of RAM..
So this would be okay!?
And ryzen would be good for 4years at least??????
You'd likely need an old ryzen CPU to update the bios to make it compatible with a 3600. Some boards have a bios flashback option you can use to update the bios without a CPU and some new stock b450's might ship with a compatible bios.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9_E3h8bLp-TXr-0zTJFqqVxdCR9daIVNyMatydkpFA/htmlview?sle=true#gid=639584818

This spreadsheet is a godsend for ryzen 3000.
 

Samrat97

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An R7 2700 is an option vs the 3600, for more multi-threaded performance. Pricing is a bit below that of an R5 3600 right now. No bios issues, when paired with a B450 either.
Bt I need something with good single core performance.. That's why I compared 8700 and 3600 cause in benchmark they are quite similar!
 

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