Question Ryzen 5 3600x - Looking for motherboard...specific requirements.

[truckinboots]

Greetings Folks,

I'm kinda stumped on this one, NightHawk ( was really awesome about providing info on a few component upgrades on a PSU thread). I am trying to keep the budget contained. SO far doing pretty good.

Ryzen 5 3600x ($250CAD)
Corsair Vengence LPX (2x16GB / 32GB Kit) | 3000mhz ($145)
Corsair RM650x ($110 - $20 mail-in-rebate = $90)

Where I'm stumped is the motherboard. I've been looking at the B450 's by MSI, apparently the heatsink on them are best in class right now. But I can't find a B450M MSI board in a configuration that seems appropriate.

So basic requirements - 4 RAM slots (supports up to 64GB) and m-ATX, since I have an external audio controller (sound chips aren't a consideration), also since I have a GPU (awaiting upgrade but GTX 760 2GB), display isn't a consideration either. I'll only be using 2 sata ports (2 x 500GB SSD's in RAID), I haven't gone to the M.2 SSD. Its about best bang for buck - with a little future proofing.


For consideration ->
#1. MSI B450M Gaming Plus - It looks like its a good board, Butttt.....it only has 2 RAM slots. So expansion to 64GB without breaking the bank on 2x32GB sticks, isn't possible.

#2. MSI - B450 Tomahawk (and Max version) ->>> FULL ATX form factor

#3. MSI-B450M PRO -VDH Max (MSI website: says it can handle Ryzen 9), 4 DIMM Slots (64GB max), and is m-ATX its a little budget friendly @ $105 CAD
https://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=26_1832_1833&item_id=140923

I've heard that the heatsinks on Gigabyte and Asus and AsRock aren't so good, and most of the AsRock boards are a no-go. The other thing that came up when I was doing research was ?? Bios Flashing? or Re-flashing with a button? How much of a consideration is this really?

Look forward to your thoughts, what do you think of the Pro-VDH Max? Would it work? Pitfalls?

Thanks all

 

[drivinfast247]

Since you have a 3000 series Ryzen, you need a motherboard that's able to boot with that CPU right out the box. The only b450 boards that offer that are the "MAX" versions. Also, there are a few boards that offer a BIOS flash feature that doesn't require a CPU to be installed.

I'd get the MSI Mortar MAX or Tomahawk MAX.(Do you actually need m-atx)

P.S. Why the RAID setup for SSDs?

 

[Sonicssee]

Im also looking for a mainboard for a ryzen 3600x

im considering the msi Tomahawk Max Or the asus b450 f gaming or the aorus b450 pro

But I also don’t know at the moment which one I buy ....

 

[truckinboots]

Since you have a 3000 series Ryzen, you need a motherboard that's able to boot with that CPU right out the box. The only b450 boards that offer that are the "MAX" versions. Also, there are a few boards that offer a BIOS flash feature that doesn't require a CPU to be installed.

I'd get the MSI Mortar MAX or Tomahawk MAX.(Do you actually need m-atx)

P.S. Why the RAID setup for SSDs?

I run Linux - right now Fedora 31, and I have 2 x 500GB SSD's already, I just run it in RAID 1, I also have a Centos 7 - NFS. I do web development so this a home environment for testing n' graphics and illustration and 3D modelling.

Because if I want to shrink the case later, and have it LESS intrusive, I can ... but right now I'm using this chassis. (its not perfect power button on front has a few challenges that I fixed up). It sounds weird, but I my home office shares my living room and diving (L shape) ... SO I try to keep the computers smaller rather than bigger.

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07DJ7DNJ3/ref=twister_B07K8B2FGH?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

I'm just trying to keep it around the $100 mark - That's all.

 

[truckinboots]

Im also looking for a mainboard for a ryzen 3600x

im considering the msi Tomahawk Max Or the asus b450 f gaming or the aorus b450 pro

But I also don’t know at the moment which one I buy ....

From what I've researched Gigabyte's and Asus's heatshrink isn't so great. DOesn't do anything really for cooling - apparently boards still run hot.

 

[Sonicssee]

Do you would suggest the tomahawk from msi ?

 

[truckinboots]

Do you would suggest the tomahawk from msi ?

It depends on specs of the board. Here's the cross compare from MSI

MSI Canada

ca.msi.com

The Big differences I can see ...

All 3 Having the following specs:

• Support up to Ryzen 9 CPU
• 4 RAM DIMM Slots / Dual Channel Support / (Max 64 GB Support) (See RAM Exception in Differences - its overclocking speeds)
• PCI-E GEN - all 3 share Gen3(PCI_E1, Tomahawk Max and Mortar Max >> share this as well Gen2(PCI_E4) (not so sure about critical value of this one).
• All 3 share this LAN CHIP ---->>>> 1x Realtek® RTL8111H-CG
• All 3 share this AUDIO CHIP ->>> 1x Realtek® ALC892 Codec
• All 3 share a TPM CHIP (Hardware Cyber Security)

But now the differences.

• RAM DIFFERENCE - Tomahawk allows RAM OC has 1 extra setting mentioned (3600), and Pro-VDH OC at 3866, otherwise identical specs.
• B450 Tomahawk Max & Pro-VDH both have 1 M.2 port where the Mortar Max has 2x M.2 ports.
• PCI-EX16 - Tomahawk Max has (2), Mortar Max has (2), Pro-VDH has (1). This is for video cards. And I don't SLI or X-fire - so I'm trying to think why I need more than 1.
• SATA Ports - Tomahawk Max (6x Sata6), Mortar Max (4x Sata6), and Pro-VDH (4x Sata6 ).
• Bios RAID is supported ONLY by Tomahawk Max and Mortar Max; but its still software raid, which i can do in linux so it doesn't matter really.
• Parallel Port - Tomahawk Max doesn't have one but Mortar Max and Pro-VDH do, although not sure why its even on a board still.
• Video Ports - Tomahawk Max (1x HDMI), Mortar Max has (1 x HDMI / 1x Display Port), and Pro-VDH (1x VGA / 1xHDMI) although this isn't a consideration if your running a GPU in the PCI-Ex16 slot.
• Tomahawk Max = FULL ATX board, Mortar Max and Pro-VDH are both micro-ATX / m-ATX. (SO depends on the case you have or /buying). ALL m-ATX will work in a FULL ATX Chassis, but not all FULL ATX will work in a SFF like a m-ATX will.

This is a side note: PURELY on Image Visuals from MSI - The Mortar Max and Tomahawk Max appear to have a much more robust heatsink than on the Pro-VDH.(Whether this holds true IRL situations - I can not say).

PLEASE NOTE: There maybe errors on MSI's website: Example.

Following this LINK >>>> https://ca.msi.com/comparison/mothe...T01BSEFXSy1NQVg=","QjQ1ME0tUFJPLVZESC1NQVg="]

Looking down the Specs you'll see RAID for Pro-VDH is N/A; however if you pull up the specs for the board and [Details] Tab you'll see it supports Raid 0 / 1/ and Raid 10.

You can review each of the specs here's the links - but its a daunting task.

https://ca.msi.com/Motherboard/B450M-PRO-VDH/Specification

B450 MORTAR MAX | Motherboard | MSI Global

Best AMD AM4 B450 ATX motherboard, Turbo M.2, Extended heatsink, USB 3.2 Gen 2, Mystic Light, MSI MAG

ca.msi.com

https://ca.msi.com/Motherboard/B450-TOMAHAWK-MAX/Specification

Since I'm running Linux the Windows OS version is not a consideration.
Since I'm not doing CrossFire or SLI, the functionality is not a consideration.

When its all said n' done - if it wasn't too pricey - I'd probably to the Mortar Max (but its sold out in stores here locally and with holidays - who knows when it would arrive - and what damage it might have. ).

Anyone else have any ideas?

 

[drea.drechsler]

It depends on specs of the board. Here's the cross compare from MSI

MSI Canada

ca.msi.com

The Big differences I can see ...

All 3 Having the following specs:

• Support up to Ryzen 9 CPU
• 4 RAM DIMM Slots / Dual Channel Support / (Max 64 GB Support) (See RAM Exception in Differences - its overclocking speeds)
• PCI-E GEN - all 3 share Gen3(PCI_E1, Tomahawk Max and Mortar Max >> share this as well Gen2(PCI_E4) (not so sure about critical value of this one).
• All 3 share this LAN CHIP ---->>>> 1x Realtek® RTL8111H-CG
• All 3 share this AUDIO CHIP ->>> 1x Realtek® ALC892 Codec
• All 3 share a TPM CHIP (Hardware Cyber Security)

But now the differences.

• RAM DIFFERENCE - Tomahawk allows RAM OC has 1 extra setting mentioned (3600), and Pro-VDH OC at 3866, otherwise identical specs.
• B450 Tomahawk Max & Pro-VDH both have 1 M.2 port where the Mortar Max has 2x M.2 ports.
• PCI-EX16 - Tomahawk Max has (2), Mortar Max has (2), Pro-VDH has (1). This is for video cards. And I don't SLI or X-fire - so I'm trying to think why I need more than 1.
• SATA Ports - Tomahawk Max (6x Sata6), Mortar Max (4x Sata6), and Pro-VDH (4x Sata6 ).
• Bios RAID is supported ONLY by Tomahawk Max and Mortar Max; but its still software raid, which i can do in linux so it doesn't matter really.
• Parallel Port - Tomahawk Max doesn't have one but Mortar Max and Pro-VDH do, although not sure why its even on a board still.
• Video Ports - Tomahawk Max (1x HDMI), Mortar Max has (1 x HDMI / 1x Display Port), and Pro-VDH (1x VGA / 1xHDMI) although this isn't a consideration if your running a GPU in the PCI-Ex16 slot.
• Tomahawk Max = FULL ATX board, Mortar Max and Pro-VDH are both micro-ATX / m-ATX. (SO depends on the case you have or /buying). ALL m-ATX will work in a FULL ATX Chassis, but not all FULL ATX will work in a SFF like a m-ATX will.

This is a side note: PURELY on Image Visuals from MSI - The Mortar Max and Tomahawk Max appear to have a much more robust heatsink than on the Pro-VDH.(Whether this holds true IRL situations - I can not say).

PLEASE NOTE: There maybe errors on MSI's website: Example.

Following this LINK >>>> https://ca.msi.com/comparison/motherboard/?unique=id1577539087480&compare_list=["QjQ1ME0tTU9SVEFSLU1BWA==","QjQ1MC1UT01BSEFXSy1NQVg=","QjQ1ME0tUFJPLVZESC1NQVg="]

Looking down the Specs you'll see RAID for Pro-VDH is N/A; however if you pull up the specs for the board and [Details] Tab you'll see it supports Raid 0 / 1/ and Raid 10.

You can review each of the specs here's the links - but its a daunting task.

https://ca.msi.com/Motherboard/B450M-PRO-VDH/Specification

B450 MORTAR MAX | Motherboard | MSI Global

Best AMD AM4 B450 ATX motherboard, Turbo M.2, Extended heatsink, USB 3.2 Gen 2, Mystic Light, MSI MAG

ca.msi.com

https://ca.msi.com/Motherboard/B450-TOMAHAWK-MAX/Specification

Since I'm running Linux the Windows OS version is not a consideration.
Since I'm not doing CrossFire or SLI, the functionality is not a consideration.

When its all said n' done - if it wasn't too pricey - I'd probably to the Mortar Max (but its sold out in stores here locally and with holidays - who knows when it would arrive - and what damage it might have. ).

Anyone else have any ideas?

The heatsinks on Mortar Max and Tomahawk Max truely are functional and they help keep those VRM's cool-running even when overclocking a Ryzen 1700 CPU which is very power hungry at 3.95Ghz during Prime95 stress tests. I'd never attempt that on the pro-vdh and especially not on any gigabyte or asus B450 board.

I couldn't say what's important to you in terms of features, but I liked the second M.2 socket on my Mortar. It operates at PCIe Gen 2, since it's run off the chipset, but it's still x4 bandwidth and so it's way faster for a data drive than any SATA SSD even in a Raid array. BTW, you will lose functionality of the PCIe x16/4 socket when you populate the 2nd M.2 if that's important.

The bad thing about Mortar Max is it's not widely available in the US, and those that are I think have been imported at retail which can drive up the cost. So that may be a consideration if you're shopping in the USA.

 

[truckinboots]

The heatsinks on Mortar Max and Tomahawk Max truely are functional and they help keep those VRM's cool-running even when overclocking a Ryzen 1700 CPU which is very power hungry at 3.95Ghz during Prime95 stress tests. I'd never attempt that on the pro-vdh and especially not on any gigabyte or asus B450 board.

I couldn't say what's important to you in terms of features, but I liked the second M.2 socket on my Mortar. It operates at PCIe Gen 2, since it's run off the chipset, but it's still x4 bandwidth and so it's way faster for a data drive than any SATA SSD even in a Raid array. BTW, you will lose functionality of the PCIe x16/4 socket when you populate the 2nd M.2 if that's important.

The bad thing about Mortar Max is it's not widely available in the US, and those that are I think have been imported at retail which can drive up the cost. So that may be a consideration if you're shopping in the USA.

Its not available up here in Canada either, that I've seen or if it is, its $200+. The thing is I don't use m.2 I suppose I could if its cheap enough. The problem with computers is that its always more and more and more. So there has to be a cut off point.

I was hoping for an mATX board with 4GB Dimms, my current i5-2500 is on a P8Z77 and still rocking away, just a shame it can't keep up with the hyper-threading now.

 

[drea.drechsler]

Its not available up here in Canada either, that I've seen or if it is, its $200+. The thing is I don't use m.2 I suppose I could if its cheap enough. The problem with computers is that its always more and more and more. So there has to be a cut off point.
....

Unfortunately, the closest thing to the Mortar Max for VRM capability in an mATX board is the Gaming Plus Max and its two-only DIMM sockets. There is an advantage to 2 DIMM sockets and that's memory stability at high clocks. That makes it very popular for memory overclocking, but as you've found, expensive to get 64GB memory support.

The only other choice, a not too distant 2nd to the Gaming Plus Max, is the Asus TUF B450m PRO (NOT THE PLUS). It has a fairly nice VRM and should hold any Ryzen 3000 processor short of the 3950x, so long as manual all-core overclocking isn't the goal, cool and quiet.

 

[truckinboots]

Unfortunately, the closest thing to the Mortar Max for VRM capability in an mATX board is the Gaming Plus Max and its two-only DIMM sockets. There is an advantage to 2 DIMM sockets and that's memory stability at high clocks. That makes it very popular for memory overclocking, but as you've found, expensive to get 64GB memory support.

The only other choice, a not too distant 2nd to the Gaming Plus Max, is the Asus TUF B450m PRO (NOT THE PLUS). It has a fairly nice VRM and should hold any Ryzen 3000 processor short of the 3950x, so long as manual all-core overclocking isn't the goal, cool and quiet.

The chassis will support full ATX, just might be really cramped in there. I saw n MSI X470 GAMING PLUS MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard for $130 so I might do that - too many options. Ugh.

 

[drea.drechsler]

The chassis will support full ATX, just might be really cramped in there. I saw n MSI X470 GAMING PLUS MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard for $130 so I might do that - too many options. Ugh.

It's got 2 M.2 sockets too! The good thing put a 2TB NVME in that 2nd (coming down rapidly in cost now) and you may find not needing to locate (even SSD) drives and cabling helps with the cramped condition in the case. Just an idea

But if it were me and I had an ATX case, even a compact one, I'd fill it with a Tomahawk MAX and be done with it. A very good board and economical to boot. The tight fit is really only a problem during the build phase and careful planning usually makes that less a problem than you think.

What case and PSU are you planning for this build, BTW? And cooling?

 

[14edwjar]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07VB2BG3X/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1
very good
very cheap

 

[Ethernos]

Lately I've also been looking for a board to support a Ryzen 5 3600X, but can't find anything with the x570 chipset that isnt plagued with issues (overheating, poor slot placement, bad driver support, etc).

The original goal was a gaming focused ITX build, but given the limitations id be willing to settle for any size. I would like to go with x470 but I'm not sure where to find one that's 3rd gen ryzen ready out of the box/can update BIOS without a CPU as previously mentioned.

I'd just like that it be an MSI with decent overclocking capability, and be under $250 (mATX and ITX preferred)

 

[truckinboots]

Lately I've also been looking for a board to support a Ryzen 5 3600X, but can't find anything with the x570 chipset that isnt plagued with issues (overheating, poor slot placement, bad driver support, etc).

The original goal was a gaming focused ITX build, but given the limitations id be willing to settle for any size. I would like to go with x470 but I'm not sure where to find one that's 3rd gen ryzen ready out of the box/can update BIOS without a CPU as previously mentioned.

I'd just like that it be an MSI with decent overclocking capability, and be under $250 (mATX and ITX preferred)

I don't overclock nothing, i just use stock. So for me under $150 and preferrably around $100 - $120 would be ideal. But sometimes it push comes to shuv; i'll go higher. I can no longer get a Tomahawk board in this city - its sold out EVERYWHERE ! ugh.

 

[truckinboots]

OK - Folks - Some others who were following this post and thread were asking the same questions, I was so...here's a comparison between FOUR (4) MSI Motherboards. It looks like I'm gonna be forced to go FULL ATX. As mATX just isn't available here.

So consider your specific priorities.

If you plan on running 2x M.2 Slots in RAID there are 2 boards that can do that, but only ONE of them is in North America (NA).

IF you want to run TRIPLE (3) CrossFire - there's only ONE board that will do that.

IF RGB Lighting is your thing, and you want chip controllers on the board, there's only ONE on the list that will do that.

IF you want to OVER-clock the RAM be mindful of over-clocking limits on the boards, they change board to board.

ALL B450 Boards have a bios FLASH Button, the X470 DOES NOT! (This said, just how often would you reflash the motherboard?)

I use a separate "Discrete Video Card" aka a GPU installed on PCI-E x 16 slot. SO the video details is not relevant for me, but you may need it. Also an ONBOARD video port, comes in very handy when needing to diagnose system problems and you want base defaults to be used.

I use an external Audio Controller, but may use the onboard pending on what Linux wants to do. So this may or may not be a consideration.

IF USB ports (Type / Gen / Speed) are of consideration, be mindful - ONLY SOME boards have Type-C and others Gen2. Its not the same all the way through.

Here's the table for the cross compare - I did as a cross compare. Hopefully it helps folks out.
I'll probably go get the Tomahawk Max...but I really wish it was an mATX board.

Best Wishes....

PS: ALL PRICES IN CANADIAN DOLLARS
Top 1/2 of Spreadsheet -> https://ibb.co/3c0xHq9
Bottom 1/2 of Spreadsheet -> https://ibb.co/Mkd4P05

Cheers

 

[drea.drechsler]

OK - Folks - Some others who were following this post and thread were asking the same questions, I was so...here's a comparison between FOUR (4) MSI Motherboards. It looks like I'm gonna be forced to go FULL ATX. As mATX just isn't available here.

So consider your specific priorities.

If you plan on running 2x M.2 Slots in RAID there are 2 boards that can do that, but only ONE of them is in North America (NA).

IF you want to run TRIPLE (3) CrossFire - there's only ONE board that will do that.

IF RGB Lighting is your thing, and you want chip controllers on the board, there's only ONE on the list that will do that.

IF you want to OVER-clock the RAM be mindful of over-clocking limits on the boards, they change board to board.

ALL B450 Boards have a bios FLASH Button, the X470 DOES NOT! (This said, just how often would you reflash the motherboard?)

I use a separate "Discrete Video Card" aka a GPU installed on PCI-E x 16 slot. SO the video details is not relevant for me, but you may need it. Also an ONBOARD video port, comes in very handy when needing to diagnose system problems and you want base defaults to be used.

I use an external Audio Controller, but may use the onboard pending on what Linux wants to do. So this may or may not be a consideration.

IF USB ports (Type / Gen / Speed) are of consideration, be mindful - ONLY SOME boards have Type-C and others Gen2. Its not the same all the way through.

Here's the table for the cross compare - I did as a cross compare. Hopefully it helps folks out.
I'll probably go get the Tomahawk Max...but I really wish it was an mATX board.

Best Wishes....

PS: ALL PRICES IN CANADIAN DOLLARS
Top 1/2 of Spreadsheet -> https://ibb.co/3c0xHq9
Bottom 1/2 of Spreadsheet -> https://ibb.co/Mkd4P05

Cheers

The onboard video port is only functional with an APU (2200G/2400G/3200G/3400G, Bristol Ridge and Athlon's) as no Ryzen CPU's have an iGPU. So temper your expectations on it's usefulness if you're considering pairing this with a 3600/X.

You are right: the flash BIOS button really has very limited usefulness for most of us. You'll most likely never need it if your board comes with a BIOS supporting the CPU you buy it for. You'll not need it if you can go with the Tomahawk MAX, for instance, since it supports Ryzen 3000 out-of-the-box.

Unless going for extreme overclocking, RAM is far more likely to be limited by the CPU than the board. Although, X570 boards do seem to have better potential (especially in the extremes) due to their construction. Even so, most people have found their Ryzen 3000 CPU's to be very capable RAM overclockers on even B350 boards. Also, keep in mind that 3600-3700 MTps is the sweet spot both because of true performance benefit for Ryzen 3000 and in what people can get.

But there is a consideration in memory topology (how the sockets are wired) when there are 4 DIMM sockets. A T-Topology is considered better for overclocking if you actually using 4 memory DIMM's while a daisy-chain is better for 2 DIMM's (be sure to use the last DIMM socket on a channel) . You don't really see T-Topology except in very high-end X470 or X570 boards though.

I'd ask around before assuming you'll be able to RAID 2x on-board M.2 NVME's as it may come with quite a few considerations to look into. Like software RAID only since wouldn't hardware RAID have to be two M.2's attached to the chipset? in which case might it actually be 2x M.2 SATA SSD's and not 2x M.2 NVME's? I'm not that familiar with setting up RAID arrays, especially NVME, though hence why asking around is a good idea. This may be something reserved to X570 chipset boards.