Question Ryzen 5 4650G, MSI X570, and Windows 7 BSOD ? (Compromise solution)

CT_1107

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I'm updating some hardware, and got the following:
MSI MPG X570 Gaming Plus MB
16G DDR4 3600 OLOy Ram
Ryzen 5 4650 G APU
WD SN550 Blue NVMe Gen3 x4 M.2 SSD 1TB

I used the MSI bios flash updater to load the latest bios. It worked as described with no issues.

I got a PS/2 KB & mouse since I read there are USB problems trying to use Win 7 on X570. My current system is an Intel i5-4690K on an Asrock Z97 Pro 4 board with a 500GB Samsung 850 M.2 SSD. I need to keep Windows 7 for software compatibility, so please no discussion about using Win 10. I am also not interested in running a virtual machine.

I cloned the smaller SSD to the larger one, came out identical for volumes. Both show as MBR, not GPT.

I put everything together using default settings and got a very brief BSOD before it boot looped. The USB KB and mouse work through the BIOS setup, I never had to use the PS/2 stuff. The only way I could get to that point was setting up the boot as UEFI and legacy- UEFI alone boot looped to the bios setup. I tried to see the BSOD message, even using my camera at 60 FPS but it did not give any code. I slowed down the CPU to 3.0 GHz and 1.30V (default is 3.7 and 1.35) after reading doing so on another system with similar issues allowed booting. No difference here.

I also tried installing the new SSD on my old system and it also boot looped.

From what I have read, the issue with Ryzen on Win 7 involves USB, but in each instance I have read about, the machine would boot up and allow the chipset drivers to be updated. I can't get to that point.

I do have Win 10 on a media server using a Ryzen 7 1700 and X370 chipset, so if what I have is 100% incompatible, I can use it on that system. I still need a solution for my Win 7 desktop, be it Ryzen or a newer Intel CPU.

Any thoughts on a solution for this?

UPDATE-
To sum up what I have learned here:
Windows 7 cannot boot from the NVME SSD I bought, so it's going to my W10 media server. Once that hurdle was jumped and I was able to boot into W7 using my existing M.2 SSD, the issue became the USB and other drivers, which has been addressed and solved on other sites at length.

The Ryzen 5 4650G does work and work well in W7 once the proper driver package is installed. The sole drawback is the lack of a graphics driver for the integrated graphics on the CPU. The compromise solution is to install a graphics card.
 
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Colif

Win 10 Master
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I also tried installing the new SSD on my old system and it also boot looped.
It sounds like your clone didn't work, if old system is PC it was cloned from. It should work in that PC.

So you cloned your working ssd on old system and tried to get it to boot onto a system that doesn't have any win 7 drivers, only win 10 - https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/MPG-X570-GAMING-PLUS#down-driver&Win10 64

its hard enough to get it to work that way on a system that does have Win 10 drivers, windows doesn't cope well with swapping PC.
there are 3 potential things that can happen in that situation
  1. it boots fine, and adjusts to its surroundings
  2. It boots but there are weird errors
  3. It doesn't work at all.
No usb drivers for X570 win 7 is a pain. Lucky boards still have USB 2.

What is this software you have to use win 7 for?
 

CT_1107

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It sounds like your clone didn't work, if old system is PC it was cloned from. It should work in that PC.

So you cloned your working ssd on old system and tried to get it to boot onto a system that doesn't have any win 7 drivers, only win 10 - https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/MPG-X570-GAMING-PLUS#down-driver&Win10 64

its hard enough to get it to work that way on a system that does have Win 10 drivers, windows doesn't cope well with swapping PC.
there are 3 potential things that can happen in that situation
  1. it boots fine, and adjusts to its surroundings
  2. It boots but there are weird errors
  3. It doesn't work at all.
No usb drivers for X570 win 7 is a pain. Lucky boards still have USB 2.

What is this software you have to use win 7 for?
Thanks for the reply.

In the order you replied:
1. I can't understand why the cloned drive does nto work either. I have cloned drives before and not had that problem. I used Macrium Reflect to do so, I've had good outcomes with it in the past.

EDIT- I forgot to add my old drive is an M.2 SATA B+M key as I understand this, while the new WD one is NVMe M key. I looked up my old Asrock Z97 and it says it supports "M.2_SSD (NGFF) Socket 3, supports M Key M.2 SATA3 6.0 Gb/s module and M.2 PCI Express module up to Gen2 x2 (10 Gb/s)"

Is it possible that explains why the NVMe WD drive does not boot here?

2. The lack of X570 drivers is not a problem I am concerned with, as I have read about several ways to use X470 drivers that have been modded. The lack of booting is my main problem for now.

3. It is automotive proprietary computer (engine control module) programming software. It's never been updated for W10, and due to the totality of the circumstances I don't want to have to be concerned with running in VM or compatibility mode. Now that I think about it, I have some older games I play on occasion that I had to mod to use on W7. I'm pretty certain they would not go on W10. Finally, W10's un-opt-outable updates have caused a couple of problems on my media server (one of which still has not been resolved for some security cams), so that's one more reason to avoid it.

I found a page on pcpartpicker that purports to list CPUs that are compatible with W7-64. It seems odd that the Ryzen 5/7/9 5xxx is there. I see the affordable i5-1000 is also there, so I may look into that one for the desktop.
 
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Colif

Win 10 Master
Moderator
M.2_SSD (NGFF) Socket 3, supports M Key M.2 SATA3 6.0 Gb/s module and M.2 PCI Express module up to Gen2 x2 (10 Gb/s)"
M key drives only have 1 slot
B + M key have 2 slots.
Your board supports both. obviously as it mentions M above and you had a B + M keyed sata previously. It is possible it can't boot off M key NVME, I think that was a restriction in the past. I don't know, I didn't get an NVME until this PC.
Your board would just run it at half speed. I think nvme are backwards compatible.

I would try doing the clone operation again as since it didn't work in old PC, its possible that is reason new one doesn't boot as well.
 

CT_1107

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I'm not exactly sure what happened, but... I'm on my "new" system now, everything works except the graphics & I'm DL a W7 driver I hope will work. Here's what I did:
I put the new 1TB NVMe M.2 SSD into slot #1 of the X570 MB. I installed W10 onto it from DVD. Got it to boot up and it looked OK. I thought I'd stick my old SATA M.2 in slot 2 and see what happened. I also set the DDR at the XMP 1 setting in bios.

When I rebooted, for some reason it went to slot 2 and booted from the SATA W7 SSD. :) I had to use my PS/2 keyboard but was able to get into my old W7 desktop. I was then able to use the W7 modified drivers I found online for USB and Network etc. I expanded them via a laptop, then used a USB adapter to place them directly onto my SATA SSD.

Not sure what the link policy is here, but I can post it if desired. The fellow doing this is named Canonkong, which should give one a means to find the software if they need to.

I followed the directions there and used the DDU uninstaller to clear out my old GPU settings. I was then able, albeit slowly by PS/2 keyboard, to load drivers for the various items using device manager. All USB ports came alive, as well as the network, audio, and a couple of other things.

When I tried to use the graphics driver on that site, I got a white screen followed by a black screen. It looked like the PC was running OK in the background based upon HDD LED activity, but I couldn't see anything. I rebooted to safe mode and used DDU to uninstall the GPU driver.

The AMD site lists a bunch of prior Radeon graphics drivers for the 4650 PRO, and that site even recognized my CPU as a 4650G Pro. None of them show as being for W7, so a little more research and I found Radeon 20.11.2 for W7 on a tech spot site. This version was not on AMD's site for my CPU, although version 20.11.3 was. I'm DL it now and will post if it works or does not work.

UPDATE 20.11.2 gave me an install error. I'll do some more reading to see if there is a solution here.
 
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Karadjgne

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I'm thinking the whole issue started with the clone. Ssd really prefer GPT and drives of greater than 750Gb Really need to be GPT, MBR was never set up to deal with 1Tb drives, it's an almost 40 year old design that started out dealing with drives of 10Mb .

Small ssd can deal with MBR, doubt a 1Tb NVMe will be as forgiving.

You can try Win10 drivers, Win 8.1 Drivers (not Win8) as many times they are the same 32bit drivers and cross-compatible.
 
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CT_1107

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Thanks for the info. I think the "easy button" at this point is to just install a basic graphics card, like a GT1030 since I don't game.
 

CT_1107

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I tried changing MBR to GPT on the 1TB SSD using Easus partition manager and apparently one of my M.2 slots is dead. I can't get either SSD to detect in slot #1, either the MBR 500GB or the MBR or GPT 1TB. I unplugged all three of my other sata drives and it still did not read anything in slot 1. GPT was a no-go anyway. The WD 1TB SSD won't boot W7 either way.

This system is usable as-is for now since the default video driver allows 1920x1080. Now I can see the entire screen. :)

I'm still within my return window on this board, so I think based upon what I have learned I will try a MSI Tomahawk B450 since it offers W7 drivers to a degree and supports the R5 4650G. Hindsight being 20/20, I should have bought an R5 3600 and a video card.
 

Colif

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I didn't think it was an mbr restriction as its max drive size is 2.2tb, a fair amount over 1tb anyway. GPT max drive size is 18.8 million tb so its going to be a while before we hit it

NVME not existing back then... yes, that makes sense. Wonder if there are any Win 7 Optane drivers. Further we get away from 2008, worse its going to get for win 7.
 

Karadjgne

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There were posts from back then where people had used Raid drivers piggy-backed into the Windows install, because for some reason that worked to at least get the drive recognized, or you'd now use Clover with NvmExpressDxe.efi installed in the EFI bios/uefi folders.
 

CT_1107

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As an update, I decided to bite the bullet and upgrade W7 to W10 with all of my files & settings. It went better than expected, until it didn't. While I was able to try a couple of programs and they loaded, the machine began to lock up after a few minutes. The screen froze, no HD activity, and no effect using mouse or KB such as CTL-ALT-DEL. Only option was a hard restart. This continued and began happening faster, so in lieu of troubleshooting an OS I really didn't want in the first place, I gave up on it & reverted to W7. That went well, so I'm back to where I had been.

Plan "A" continues to involve installing a GT1030 graphics card. I'm going to use the 1TB NVME SSD in my W10 media server (Ryzen 1700 and X370), as I realized it only has a 120GB drive in it now that is fairly full. I found a decent deal on a 1TB M.2 SATA 3 SSD and will use it in conjunction with the desktop unit. As for the MB, I found a similar MSI Gaming X470 that has the features I need. The B450 Tomahawk did not.

Thanks for the info & help here.
 

CT_1107

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Compatibility mode is irrelevant when the system locks up before I can run any programs. It started locking up within about a minute the last time I restarted. :( I'm happy with what I have, the graphics card will solve the display issue.
 

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