[SOLVED] Ryzen 7 1700 Drastic Underperformance

ryan1431

Commendable
Jun 17, 2017
33
2
1,535
0
I built a PC 2 years ago, and I have been dealing with a multitude of issues with this build, and as a last ditch effort before selling and re-building, I am looking for any insight as to why I struggle to get 60 frames in a lot of games, even at low settings (Pubg, rise of the tomb raider, Escape from tarkov, bf4, bf1, etc)

Build: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/39j4xY (memory listed here has been changed!)

CPU : Ryzen 7 1700
GPU : EVGA GeForce 1060 6GB SSC
Mobo : MSI B350 Tomahawk ATX Am4 Motherboard
Memory : Corsair Vengeance LPX 2x8GB DDR4 DRAM 3200MHz
( https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0143UM4TC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 )
Cooler : Corsair H60
PSU: EVGA 650W W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply

Additionally:
- mobo was flashed to latest update about 1.5 years ago
- CPU overclocked to 3.6 originally, decided to stop OC'ing because the improvement was minimal, back to 3.0
- mobo will not tell me CPU temps. not sure why, but since day one, even with third party software, the temps remain blank or inaccurate

Since day one I was always under-whelmed with the performance of this build with gaming. Maybe one of the parts is a lemon, but I don't know where to pinpoint the issue/what I would replace. If you need any other information, let me know. This was a very expensive build, around $2200 CAD, so any help is really appreciated.

Thanks,
Ryan
 
...

One major issue that I didn't mention is that I bought 3200MHz DDR4 dual channel ram (2x8GB), but when I try to run it at 3200 or 3000, the PC fails to start (5 times before resetting) and puts it back at 2066Mhz. So my RAM is not running at full performance, and I could never figure out why. Am I correct to assume that could potentially be bottlenecking my CPU?
...
That's a typical problem with first gen Ryzen, especially with high(er) speed memory where easy success very much depends on CPU silicon quality. Later BIOS's had a major influence improving compatibility so updating should help but do consider that 3200 might still be a stretch for your CPU without some tweaking.

I wouldn't say it exactly bottlenecks your CPU but since infinity fabric is linked to memory clock speed attaining a higher memory clock helps more than just memory bandwidth.

I also agree with a fresh Windows install. Once you get Windows up and running, install chipset drivers for the motherboard you get from AMD's web site, just to be sure you get the latest. Install the audio and network drivers you get from the MSI motherboard support web site but do not install any of MSI's utilities. They're horrible at best, IMO.
 
Last edited:
I built a PC 2 years ago, and I have been dealing with a multitude of issues with this build, and as a last ditch effort before selling and re-building, I am looking for any insight as to why I struggle to get 60 frames in a lot of games, even at low settings (Pubg, rise of the tomb raider, Escape from tarkov, bf4, bf1, etc)

Build: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/39j4xY (memory listed here has been changed!)

CPU : Ryzen 7 1700
GPU : EVGA GeForce 1060 6GB SSC
Mobo : MSI B350 Tomahawk ATX Am4 Motherboard
Memory : Corsair Vengeance LPX 2x8GB DDR4 DRAM 3200MHz
( https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0143UM4TC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 )
Cooler : Corsair H60
PSU: EVGA 650W W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply

Additionally:
  • mobo was flashed to latest update about 1.5 years ago
  • CPU overclocked to 3.6 originally, decided to stop OC'ing because the improvement was minimal, back to 3.0
  • mobo will not tell me CPU temps. not sure why, but since day one, even with third party software, the temps remain blank or inaccurate
Since day one I was always under-whelmed with the performance of this build with gaming. Maybe one of the parts is a lemon, but I don't know where to pinpoint the issue/what I would replace. If you need any other information, let me know. This was a very expensive build, around $2200 CAD, so any help is really appreciated.

Thanks,
Ryan
There have been several BIOS updates that improve performance and compatibility since mid 2017. For B350 Tomahawk, I'd suggest updating to BIOS 7A34v1L which has much better memory compatibility in particular. Do not update to the latest BIOS unless you're considering going to a Ryzen 3000 CPU.

That motherboard should work very well with hardware monitor programs, in particular HWInfo64 is very appropriate for it. If you're having trouble understanding temperature readouts ask specific questions. In fact, most of your problems and concerns could be answered more specifically if you ask specific questions.

Also, gaming problems most likely point to GPU performance problems. Have you updated drivers for that lately?
 

ryan1431

Commendable
Jun 17, 2017
33
2
1,535
0
There have been several BIOS updates that improve performance and compatibility since mid 2017. For B350 Tomahawk, I'd suggest updating to BIOS 7A34v1L which has much better memory compatibility in particular. Do not update to the latest BIOS unless you're considering going to a Ryzen 3000 CPU.

That motherboard should work very well with hardware monitor programs, in particular HWInfo64 is very appropriate for it. If you're having trouble understanding temperature readouts ask specific questions. In fact, most of your problems and concerns could be answered more specifically if you ask specific questions.

Also, gaming problems most likely point to GPU performance problems. Have you updated drivers for that lately?
Thanks for your reply,

I do realize there is some ambiguity in my original thread, particularly because I don't really know how to pinpoint what the issue is specifically. All I know is that I get low frames even with all low settings in a lot of games.

I did not know that about the BIOS update, thank you, I will flash to the version you mentioned.

As for the GPU drivers, I have been on top of updating when they come out. So definitely no issues there.

I installed HWInfo64 and found out my cores are running at 3200MHz on average. Temps are showing, so I guess the program I used before was at fault. Reading 35c on CPU Die (average).

One major issue that I didn't mention is that I bought 3200MHz DDR4 dual channel ram (2x8GB), but when I try to run it at 3200 or 3000, the PC fails to start (5 times before resetting) and puts it back at 2066Mhz. So my RAM is not running at full performance, and I could never figure out why. Am I correct to assume that could potentially be bottlenecking my CPU?

A-XMP profile 1 is what I have set in my BIOS settings.
 

ryan1431

Commendable
Jun 17, 2017
33
2
1,535
0
Without a clean OS install, it is difficult to know that the baseline is.
I'll look into reinstalling windows after flashing my bios. Thanks for the tip. After I reinstall, however, what info will be more available to find that baseline? What is the difference?
 

punkncat

Respectable
I'll look into reinstalling windows after flashing my bios. Thanks for the tip. After I reinstall, however, what info will be more available to find that baseline? What is the difference?

By doing a "clean" install of Windows it helps remove the unknown variables of what was installed, uninstalled, what fragments and parts of programs are left in your registry, drivers overwritten (or not), and so forth.

Edit-
Reading back through this thread, I have to ask what resolution are you running? I see you say trouble getting 60 frames at low settings.

Even if your RAM is not running a fast profile that GTX 1060 and R7 1700 should readily play medium or better settings 1080/60 all day.
 
Last edited:
...

One major issue that I didn't mention is that I bought 3200MHz DDR4 dual channel ram (2x8GB), but when I try to run it at 3200 or 3000, the PC fails to start (5 times before resetting) and puts it back at 2066Mhz. So my RAM is not running at full performance, and I could never figure out why. Am I correct to assume that could potentially be bottlenecking my CPU?
...
That's a typical problem with first gen Ryzen, especially with high(er) speed memory where easy success very much depends on CPU silicon quality. Later BIOS's had a major influence improving compatibility so updating should help but do consider that 3200 might still be a stretch for your CPU without some tweaking.

I wouldn't say it exactly bottlenecks your CPU but since infinity fabric is linked to memory clock speed attaining a higher memory clock helps more than just memory bandwidth.

I also agree with a fresh Windows install. Once you get Windows up and running, install chipset drivers for the motherboard you get from AMD's web site, just to be sure you get the latest. Install the audio and network drivers you get from the MSI motherboard support web site but do not install any of MSI's utilities. They're horrible at best, IMO.
 
Last edited:

ryan1431

Commendable
Jun 17, 2017
33
2
1,535
0
By doing a "clean" install of Windows it helps remove the unknown variables of what was installed, uninstalled, what fragments and parts of programs are left in your registry, drivers overwritten (or not), and so forth.

Edit-
Reading back through this thread, I have to ask what resolution are you running? I see you say trouble getting 60 frames at low settings.

Even if your RAM is not running a fast profile that GTX 1060 and R7 1700 should readily play medium or better settings 1080/60 all day.
Thanks for your reply,

I'm only ever running 1920x1080 resolution. You can see my frustration as to why my build is struggling to get 60 fps.
 

punkncat

Respectable
As to the RAM issue. Would suggest going in and manually setting your timings. Enter the XMP CL16 timings and set the speed at something moderate, say 26xx and see if it will boot. From there move up to 29xx, and so forth. You may find you have to increase voltage too.
An easy suggestion is to utilize CPU-Z to get some "starting" numbers to work with on your timing/voltage.

Does this issue exist with ALL games or just those specific titles?
Do you have access to another GPU to try?
 

ryan1431

Commendable
Jun 17, 2017
33
2
1,535
0
UPDATE: After flashing BIOS and running A-xmp profile 1, in BIOS ram was set to run at 2933mhz, failed to boot and retried, now running 1466mhz (lower than original). Maybe I should set clock speed and timings manually?

View: https://imgur.com/a/JW9fFZD
(while game was running)

I will now be working on a fresh install of windows, and physically cleaning fans inside case because there is a surprising amount of dust build up on them (haven't cleaned in 2 years :/ ).

CPU clock is usually 2500-3000mhz idle and up to 3200mhz when in game.

It also depends on settings and the particular game. Some games can really hit FPS hard if your GPU just isn't up to pumping the pixels at very high and especially ultra settings even for 1080p.
I can see this being an issue, however for testing I am running ALL settings at their absolute lowest, and still struggling to keep 60 fps. This is across all games, except obviously the really optimized games like CSGO, minecraft, etc.

The titles I listed are the ones I have problems with the most.
 

ryan1431

Commendable
Jun 17, 2017
33
2
1,535
0
As to the RAM issue. Would suggest going in and manually setting your timings. Enter the XMP CL16 timings and set the speed at something moderate, say 26xx and see if it will boot. From there move up to 29xx, and so forth. You may find you have to increase voltage too.
An easy suggestion is to utilize CPU-Z to get some "starting" numbers to work with on your timing/voltage.

Does this issue exist with ALL games or just those specific titles?
Do you have access to another GPU to try?
I will look into that, thanks.

Unfortunately I do not have another GPU to try it with.
 
....
CPU clock is usually 2500-3000mhz idle and up to 3200mhz when in game.
....
On full-on stock settings that's probably about right, although you should be able to see it boost up to 3700mhz if you have decent cooling for it. But you can also overclock it to 3800mhz fairly easily if you've decent cooling. If you've great cooling (like a 240mm AIO) 3900-4000 is commonly seen by 1700's on Tomahawk B350's.

Yes, tweaking timings should help get higher memory clocks. Raising clocks gradually by following punkncat's suggestion helps. You can also try using the Dram Calculator to determine optimal timings and input them manually. There are quite a few, it can be a bit time consuming but it pays off. Also, raising DRAM voltage helps a lot.

get DRAMCalculator at this link.

and here's a great video showing how to use it. He demonstrates on a Ryzen 3000 processor, but the steps are the same for Ryzen 1000. Just do not aim for the extremely high clocks he is! Getting to 3200 for a 1700 will be a good enough accomplishment!
 
Last edited:

ryan1431

Commendable
Jun 17, 2017
33
2
1,535
0
On full-on stock settings that's probably about right, although you should be able to see it boost up to 3700mhz if you have decent cooling for it. But you can also overclock it to 3800mhz fairly easily if you've decent cooling. If you've great cooling (like a 240mm AIO) 3900-4000 is commonly seen by 1700's on Tomahawk B350's.

Yes, tweaking timings should help get higher memory clocks. Raising clocks gradually by following punkncat's suggestion helps. You can also try using the Dram Calculator to determine optimal timings and input them manually. There are quite a few, it can be a bit time consuming but it pays off. Also, raising DRAM voltage helps a lot.

get DRAMCalculator at this link.

and here's a great video showing how to use it. He demonstrates on a Ryzen 3000 processor, but the steps are the same for Ryzen 1000. Just do not aim for the extremely high clocks he is! Getting to 3200 for a 1700 will be a good enough accomplishment!
Thanks very much for your help, I'll be spending all of today working on these and will reply here when done. Hopefully will see some improvements.
 
Thanks very much for your help, I'll be spending all of today working on these and will reply here when done. Hopefully will see some improvements.
One thing to keep in mind is that 1700's were really only 'good' when overclocked. That's because of the really low base clock (3.0Ghz) and lack of XFR that provided the really high boosting the 'X' cpu's could get.

But in return, 1700's were also really good FOR overclocking since getting 3800 is actually pretty easy and even up to 4000 if you know how to push it. When overclocked thusly they are GREAT for the value they offered.
 
....
Should I be concerned about this??
It looks like the oils leaching out of the thermal pads between the VRM FET's and their heatsinks. What's even more interesting is it's happening at the SOC VRM too, and that normally gets very little loading on a Ryzen CPU. Have you tried any changes to BIOS settings beyond stock?

But leaching out and migrating all the way to bottom side... that's usually more typical of a system that's been run at high loads for extended duration. Still, it's not showing any discoloration aside from the darkening due to the oils staining it. Especially a brownish discoloration, that would concern me a lot more.
 
Last edited:

ryan1431

Commendable
Jun 17, 2017
33
2
1,535
0
That's a typical problem with first gen Ryzen, especially with high(er) speed memory where easy success very much depends on CPU silicon quality. Later BIOS's had a major influence improving compatibility so updating should help but do consider that 3200 might still be a stretch for your CPU without some tweaking.

I wouldn't say it exactly bottlenecks your CPU but since infinity fabric is linked to memory clock speed attaining a higher memory clock helps more than just memory bandwidth.

I also agree with a fresh Windows install. Once you get Windows up and running, install chipset drivers for the motherboard you get from AMD's web site, just to be sure you get the latest. Install the audio and network drivers you get from the MSI motherboard support web site but do not install any of MSI's utilities. They're horrible at best, IMO.
After cleaning out the PC of dust, fresh install of windows, BIOS flash and a lot of time spent overclocking, I managed to get the CPU stable at 3.85 GHz (gets unstable at 3.9~4.0+ despite liquid cooling), and ram at 3133 MHz (thanks to the bios flash). Definitely a BIG performance increase, so thanks for your help on this.

I'll probably try to tighten ram timings a little more, but besides that I'm pretty happy with where it's at right now.

Again thanks for all your help.

Cheers
 
Reactions: punkncat

ASK THE COMMUNITY