Question Ryzen 7 2700x vs I7 8700 in prebuilts

[ionutd2007]

Please help me choose between a couple of prebuilts. My main focus is productivity (CPU only - math) and very occasional gaming.

HP Pavilion 590
I7 8700
8gb DDR4 2666
B360 Mobo
GTX 1060 3gb
Gold Psu, WiFi chip
715 USD

Custom local shop
Ryzen 7 2700x
16gb DDR4 3000 Corsair
MSI B450M PRO-VDH
RX 570 4gb ITX (the small one)
Decent 80 bronze PSU, well ventilated case
890 USD

Would you say the 175 USD difference is worth it, how much of a performance % boost does the Ryzen 2700x get assuming I used the auto overclocking feature?

Cheers guys :*

 

[CountMike]

Neck to neck on that one. More cores in Ryzen, slightly better single thread performance with Intel. More and faster RAM in Ryzen. I'd say go for Ryzen but it's your money.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

They are both pretty close. I prefer the bottom 2700x system personally.

I prefer the 2700x build overall since it has more cores. Single threaded performance isn't amazing but an overclock can help. The motherboard will get an upgrade path the up and coming 16 core. Also, the GPU does have more vram, one of the major flaws in the 1060 3gb. The 16gb of faster system ram will help for multitasking and 8gb gets saturated by many modern games.

Intel does have faster single threaded performance, however, the 8700 cant be overclocked but the 2700x can. The gpu performs similarly to the 570, but the less vram is a limit. The 8gb system ram isnt great either.

Although the 2700x system cost more, it will perform better in many cases thanks to the more ram and vram. Also, it has a better upgrade path than the 8700 system.

 

[ConanLock]

As said above - neck to neck. Personally I'd choose Intel one as it is about the same performance now, but more upgradable. Plus an 80+ Gold PSU should last a long time. If I were you, I'd go with the Pavilion then upgrade to 16gb RAM straight away. Then you have at least $100 still leftover in relation to the price of the second.
Also, the i7 has very fast turbo speeds, meaning that this would make up for the lesser cores in many applications. The 3GB GPU would limit the system a bit, but depending on the games you play this might not be a problem.

 

[dudeman509]

I'd much rather have the Ryzen system. More RAM, better CPU. GPUs are both a little meh.

 

[Karadjgne]

For 1080p/60, there's really not much difference between the 3/4Gb and 6/8Gb variations except in a few games. That'll mostly come into play for 1440p or 144Hz monitors. Either gpu is quite capable of getting most games minimum frames over 60.

Ram. 16Gb vrs 8Gb. No brainer.

Cpus are equitable, win some, loose some. Ryzen has an advantage, it can be bumped over stock speeds for free performance boost as long as the cooler can handle the wattage. Intel is stuck as is. It's also the best possible cpu on that mobo, the K won't be any different.

Overall, with possible upgrade path, better options, better ram, the overall winner is Ryzen for its versatility.

Whether that's worth $175 is only something you can decide.

Custom shops don't use proprietary equipment. Many facets of HP, even to Windows install are proprietary, you are stuck with HP. That'll even include oddball stuff like 14pin psu mains, bloatware, etc. At least with the custom shop, it's universal aftermarket fitments, Microsoft version of Windows, not HP version, and if anything goes bunk, you take it back and dump it on the desk and say fix it. With HP you'll be on the phone for hours...

 

[ionutd2007]

Thanks guys. Looks like Ryzen is the favorite.

Do you guys happen to know if I could expect to get the 2700x to run on 4-4.2 Ghz stable on the MSI B450M PRO-VDH in xfr2?
Is that considered a good board?

I would be running mathematical simulations for some 12-14h+ a day and the software uses all cores. Keeps my quad core at 100%.

 

[cryoburner]

Also, the i7 has very fast turbo speeds, meaning that this would make up for the lesser cores in many applications.

The i7-8700 can be great when properly cooled, with performance nearly the same as an 8700K at stock clocks. The problem is that the Intel stock cooler that comes with the 8700 is not capable of providing the necessary cooling to maintain those "very fast turbo speeds". Using the stock cooler inside a typical case, extended multi-core loads can send clock rates dropping to around 3.6GHz or so, down from the 4.3Ghz all-core boost that the processor should be capable of. That's about a 20% drop in clock rates from what you see in many reviews of the processor, and can have a notable effect on performance when the processor is heavily loaded, in some examples dropping performance of the i7-8700 down to around that of the much less expensive 6-core Ryzen 5 processors. I suspect that a pre-built from HP will likely not come with the necessary cooling to keep those clock rates up on the i7. It would likely be possible to replace the cooler though, assuming the case has room for something better.

As for the Ryzen processors, they have better stock coolers and use solder below their heatspreaders. Assuming the system will be using the included cooler, thermal throttling probably wouldn't be a major concern. Without knowing more details, it's also possible that the custom system might even be using something better than the stock cooler. And even if both systems were properly cooled, the Ryzen's 8-cores with 16-threads will generally have a performance advantage over the i7's 6-cores with 12-threads when all cores are being fully utilized. That could potentially vary depending on the exact software being used though, since each of the architectures can be a bit faster at some things and a bit slower at others. In general, I would expect the 2700X to be the better performer at most heavily multithreaded workloads though.

I'm not sure about exactly how well that motherboard would handle a 2700X though. It appears to be a less-expensive model, though it's likely better than whatever cheap mystery board comes with that prebuilt HP system.

 

[ionutd2007]

Thanks Cryo, I wasn't aware the i7 could be hampered so badly by the stock cooler. Can an undervolt fix that? The HP case looks like a smaller midtower. Took a look at the specs sheet and the case's width is 17cm (6.7in). Not sure how tall of a cooler I can fit in there considering there's a cage on the opposite side which holds a hdd and the odd. I apologize if the picture is too large:

The cpu throttling would be a major issue for me since I plan to keep it at 100% for a long time every day.

R7 system comes with stock cooler as well.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

I don't think you can change the CPU voltage on the board the 8700 is paired with. Partially due to chipset and mostly due to a very locked down OEM bios.

I doubt a tower cooler would fit in that case either. Best to go AMD in my mind as it should perform better all around.

The Wraith prism RGB cooler the 2700x comes with should allow for a near 4ghz all core turbo, where the 8700 will be lower than 4ghz.
Because of the hampered cooling capabilities, the 2700x CPU should have a comparable single threaded performance caused by the higher all core turbo. Combine the comparable single threaded performance with the 2 extra cores of the 2700x, and the 2700x should be more powerful overall. The AMD system comes with a comparable GPU, 1gb more Vram, and double the system ram. The system ram on the AMD system is much faster than the Intel system and not locked by motherboard chipset as well, which is just icing on the cake.

If you can afford it, that AMD system is better all around.

 

[TJ Hooker]

Do you guys happen to know if I could expect to get the 2700x to run on 4-4.2 Ghz stable on the MSI B450M PRO-VDH in xfr2?
Is that considered a good board?

It's a budget/entry level board. That being said, 4-4.2GHz is basically stock performance for a 2700X, so I think it'd be OK for something close to that.

Thanks Cryo, I wasn't aware the i7 could be hampered so badly by the stock cooler. Can an undervolt fix that?

The BIOS for a pre-built will very likely be locked down and prevent you from adjusting voltage.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

The MSI B450M PRO-VDH should allow for the chip to get over 4.0ghz, either when stressing 1 thread or all 16.

If it doesnt, you may be able to enable Precision Boost Overdrive, which just automatically makes the CPU run as fast as possible if cooling allows.

 

[ionutd2007]

you guys are right about the HP bios, I just installed XTU on an older HP prebuilt I have and it doesn't let me play around with voltage. idk why I assumed it would, maybe because I had a couple of Thinkpads and those played ball nicely.

Do you think a 135mm cooler would fit in there? If not, I'm saying screw it and going with the Ryzen one.

 

[TJ Hooker]

Is there some reason why building your own is not an option?

 

[ionutd2007]

Unfortunately I just don't think I have the time and I've had a previous bad experience with what turned out to be ram compatibility which set me back 3 weeks, because I had no separate machine to test and troubleshoot.

So I did some digging up on forums and found out HP is in the bad habit of sometimes using non standard cooler mounts on their cpus. That about seals the deal for me, I've decide to go with the custom build and save myself the headache.

Thank you for your help everybody, much appreciated. Kisses and hugs to everyone!