[SOLVED] Ryzen ram compatibility with hyperx

[gushzb]

Will this ram HyperX HX432C18FB2/8 3200 work on Msi B450m Pro-vdh and R7 3700X?

 

[Darkbreeze]

I would HIGHLY recommend not trying to use that CPU with that motherboard, or even with the B450 chipset for that matter. You would be MUCH wiser to look at X470 chipset boards only. Not only does B450 struggle with 8 core Ryzen parts in terms of power delivery and management, but that is just about the worst B450 board out there, bar none.

In fact, you'd likely need to look at A320 chipset boards to find a worse board model to try and run any high end Ryzen CPU on, whether 2000 OR 3000 series.

 

[gushzb]

@Darkbreeze Do you think one Msi X470 Gaming Plus would do it for me?

 

[Darkbreeze]

No, and here's why.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12990/the-msi-x470-gaming-plus-review

It only has a FOUR phase design, just like B450. It too is at the very bottom of the stack for it's chipset family.

If you HAVE to go cheap, I'd look at the Gigabyte X470 AORUS ULTRA GAMING which has an 8+3 power phase design, and is only a few bucks more than the Gaming plus.

 

[gushzb]

Thank you for the advice.

 

[Ranjeth]

No, and here's why.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12990/the-msi-x470-gaming-plus-review

It only has a FOUR phase design, just like B450. It too is at the very bottom of the stack for it's chipset family.

If you HAVE to go cheap, I'd look at the Gigabyte X470 AORUS ULTRA GAMING which has an 8+3 power phase design, and is only a few bucks more than the Gaming plus.

MSI x470 gaming plus is completely fine with 3700x even with 3900x don't waste your money...
Refer here View: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/c7qj5e/am4_vcore_vrm_ratings_to_help_you_decide_on_a/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

 

[rumple99]

There's numerous articles about the Aorus 8+3 VRM being fake marketing and they are really only phase 4

 

[rigg42]

MSI x470 gaming plus is completely fine with 3700x even with 3900x don't waste your money...
Refer here View: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/c7qj5e/am4_vcore_vrm_ratings_to_help_you_decide_on_a/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

There's numerous articles about the Aorus 8+3 VRM being fake marketing and they are really only phase 4

Listen to these guys. The power delivery on the 400 series Gigabyte is mostly terrible. The exception is the Gaming 7. The bios is also pretty poor. Layer upon layer of sub menus gets old fast. How many phases a board has in its VRM isn't the be all end all. It depends on component and design choices. Asus makes a killer 4 phase VRM with affordable components that they use in several of the new x570 boards. It's the same VRM from the Max XI hero. It was a fairly poor choice for a $300 motherboard since it uses fairly cheap components but makes a lot of sense in an entry level x570. Functionally it performs great although a it runs a bit warm. I got better 9900k OC's with it then a z390 Aorus Ultra with its monster 12 phase. . A properly designed 4 phase can have superior transient response to larger phase designs. Switching frequency and good heat sinks go a long way.

 

[rigg42]

I would HIGHLY recommend not trying to use that CPU with that motherboard, or even with the B450 chipset for that matter. You would be MUCH wiser to look at X470 chipset boards only. Not only does B450 struggle with 8 core Ryzen parts in terms of power delivery and management, but that is just about the worst B450 board out there, bar none.

In fact, you'd likely need to look at A320 chipset boards to find a worse board model to try and run any high end Ryzen CPU on, whether 2000 OR 3000 series.

I agree that that Msi B450m Pro-vdh should be avoided. As to the rest of this post.....The Chipset has nothing to do power delivery. There are plenty of b450 and x470 boards with terrible power delivery. The Gigabyte X470 AORUS ULTRA GAMING you suggested is a prime example. There are probably in the range of 10 b450 motherboards that have objectively better VRMs than that motherboard. New Ryzen 3000 builds with 400 series boards should be reserved for b450 and Ryzen 5/7 IMO. If you already have a compatible 400 series board, and the power delivery is up to task, then by all means go for it. If you want to do a new build with R9 just buy a $200 x570. There are several excellent x570 boards in this price range. Most of the x470 boards worthy of an R9 are going to cost $200-$300 anyway.

 

[Darkbreeze]

The chipset has EVERYTHING to do with power delivery, because the manufacturers base what power delivery designs to include with a motherboard off of what that particular chipset is likely to be used FOR and WITH.

For example. You would never see the same kind of power delivery configuration on a B360 board that you would see on a Zxx series board. So while the chipset is of course not responsible FOR power delivery, it still has a great deal to do with the probability of what they ARE going to pair it with in terms of component quality and capability. Low end chipsets don't get high quality components OR extensive power delivery configurations.

As for the Gigabyte board with the creative marketing power phase design, I guess I missed that one among all the others using "fake" doubled designs. A mentioned a lot has to do with the power handlers and other components used, but after looking more closely at that board's VRM design then I'd agree it's just as bad as the others.

The bottom line here is that you are going to get (mostly) what you pay for in terms of power delivery. You don't get good VRMs at budget prices for the most part AND even less so now that there are various political and material availability concerns as well as import duties and tariffs involved to an extend far beyond what has been commonplace for the last several years.

I'd just focus on buying the best motherboard and power supply that I can fit into the budget, as these are going to have a big impact on performance and operation for any Ryzen CPU, and make choices regarding the rest of the hardware around whatever is left afterwards in terms of budget.

 

[rigg42]

The chipset has EVERYTHING to do with power delivery, because the manufacturers base what power delivery designs to include with a motherboard off of what that particular chipset is likely to be used FOR and WITH.

For example. You would never see the same kind of power delivery configuration on a B360 board that you would see on a Zxx series board. So while the chipset is of course not responsible FOR power delivery, it still has a great deal to do with the probability of what they ARE going to pair it with in terms of component quality and capability. Low end chipsets don't get high quality components OR extensive power delivery configurations.

As for the Gigabyte board with the creative marketing power phase design, I guess I missed that one among all the others using "fake" doubled designs. A mentioned a lot has to do with the power handlers and other components used, but after looking more closely at that board's VRM design then I'd agree it's just as bad as the others.

The bottom line here is that you are going to get (mostly) what you pay for in terms of power delivery. You don't get good VRMs at budget prices for the most part AND even less so now that there are various political and material availability concerns as well as import duties and tariffs involved to an extend far beyond what has been commonplace for the last several years.

I'd just focus on buying the best motherboard and power supply that I can fit into the budget, as these are going to have a big impact on performance and operation for any Ryzen CPU, and make choices regarding the rest of the hardware around whatever is left afterwards in terms of budget.

That may be true on the Intel side (I don't know for sure I haven't seriously looked at b360/b365 VRMs) but it's patently false when discussing b450 and x470 boards. The flagship x470 boards have the best VRM's available. This includes 7 boards plus some Wifi variants. Many other x470 boards have exactly the same, and in some cases worse, VRM designs/components then their B450 counterparts. You are making an apples to oranges comparison on the Intel side. B450 is a budget overclocking chipset where many of the board partners built capable b450 VRMs on certain motherboards. B365 is intended for locked CPUs adhering to strict TDP limits. Furthermore, the new CPU's are extremely power efficient and don't draw very much current. Overclocking headroom is extremely limited on these new CPU's making many b450 and crappy x470 boards perfectly suitable for zen 2 8 cores. Even overclocked.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Ok man. Whatever. I'm not going to argue semantics with you. Have a nice day.

 

[TechyInAZ]

Fortunately 3rd Gen Ryzen (except for the 12 core and 16 core) is pretty power conservative vs 2nd Gen's 2700X.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14605/the-and-ryzen-3700x-3900x-review-raising-the-bar/19

The 3700X is noticeably less power hungry than the 2700X and is more like a 2600X in wattage behavior.

So going with a average board should be fine for the 8 core and 6 core chips. But I do agree, try not to get a bottom barrel X470 or B450 board with the worst power delivery out there.

 

[logainofhades]

The B450 tomahawk is considered to have a great VRM system, so I do not believe it is chipset related. The B450i and X470i strix have the same power delivery, just different VRM heatsinks, iirc. The 3700x has power consumption in the neighborhood of R5 2600 territory.

 

[rigg42]

If we are just talking pure VRM capability there are 7 out of 20 or so (not including wifi variants) x470 motherboards that are better than what you can get from the majority of the MSI B450 lineup. Considering all of those boards cost about two to three times what the MSI b450 boards cost why would anyone buy a new x470 based on it's power delivery? Good x570 boards are available in this price range right now with equal or better VRMs. A flagship x470 would have to have one hell of a compelling feature over the x570 boards. They'll be good buys when the prices drop but for now, as far as I'm concerned, if you don't own an am4 board you should be buying a b450 or x570 for a new build.

It's pretty simple. Take a look at the guide that Ranjeth posted earlier, find the boards that meet the VRM requirement based on CPU, compare the features of these boards, and buy the one in your price range that most meets your needs.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...IVNyMatydkpFA/htmlview?sle=true#gid=639584818

 

[Darkbreeze]

Let me clarify something I said earlier that I think you misconstrued, or I simply didn't convey my meaning about well enough.

When I say the chipset has everything to do with the VRM configuration, and without going through it all again, what I meant was this. On a lower end chipset you CAN, yes, CAN, have some models with VRM configurations that are as good as SOME models on the higher end chipset boards.

What you WON'T find, EVER, are board models on the lower end chipset boards that are as good as the VRM configurations on SOME of the higher end chipset boards. For example, the VRM configuration on a B or H series Intel board will not EVER be as good as it is on the higher end Z series boards. There may be B or H series boards with VRM configurations that are equal to some of the lower end Z series boards, but NONE of them will be up to par with the better mid to upper tiered boards from the unlocked chipset that is specifically intended for mid range to high end overclocking.

On AM4, yes, there are B450 boards that have VRM configurations that are just as good as SOME of the lower end X series boards. But there are NO, NONE, NON, NEIT, (Are we seeing a pattern here?) B450 boards that have VRM configurations as good as ALL of the X series boards, hence the higher end X470, X570 chipset has EVERYTHING to do with having a higher end VRM configuration, at least on the boards that DO have a higher end configuration, because they cannot be found on any of the lower end chipset boards.

There are NO B350 or B450 boards with 6, 8, 10 or 12 phase VRMs. Those are ONLY found on X series boards. Therefore, clearly, the chipset has everything to do with that. By intent.

COULD they put more power phases and higher quality components on these boards with lower end chipsets?

Sure. Of course they COULD.

Do they? No. Because they ARE lower end chipsets, and by intent, they are not meant for use under the same kinds of conditions or for the same level of hardware that the higher end chipset boards were designed for. That, is by design, and is why they ARE cheaper to buy.

 

[InvalidError]

What you WON'T find, EVER, are board models on the lower end chipset boards that are as good as the VRM configurations on SOME of the higher end chipset boards.

A properly designed four phases VRM is all anyone needs for normal use, ridiculous phase counts are mainly for overclocking beyond the normal power range where per-phase losses and board power dissipation even of a good VRM design may become issues. This usually doesn't happen until about 150W or about 4W of losses per phase, which is what the square inch of PCB space a phase typically occupies can dissipate.

 

[rigg42]

Let me clarify something I said earlier that I think you misconstrued, or I simply didn't convey my meaning about well enough.

I'm definitely leaning towards the latter. You've conveyed nothing but blanket statements on x470 having superior VRMs to b450 prior to this post.

When I say the chipset has everything to do with the VRM configuration, and without going through it all again, what I meant was this. On a lower end chipset you CAN, yes, CAN, have some models with VRM configurations that are as good as SOME models on the higher end chipset boards.

What you WON'T find, EVER, are board models on the lower end chipset boards that are as good as the VRM configurations on SOME of the higher end chipset boards.

Yes this is true. This is why the motherboard and CPU combinations need to judged on a case by case basis. The chipset and price tag don't necessarily indicate a quality VRM. Clearly stating that x470 has better power delivery than b450 without pointing out obvious exceptions is spreading bad information. Myself and others were correct to take you to task for this.

Flagship boards are on the top chipset and have the most expensive VRM components. I don't think this is news to anyone. They are also complete overkill most of the time. This is clearly the case for anything up to a 3700x/3800x. This is specifically what we're talking about in this thread. The rest is minutia and backpedaling. Would you also suggest someone buy a 2080ti to play CSGO at 1080p on a 144hz monitor?

For example, the VRM configuration on a B or H series Intel board will not EVER be as good as it is on the higher end Z series boards. There may be B or H series boards with VRM configurations that are equal to some of the lower end Z series boards, but NONE of them will be up to par with the better mid to upper tiered boards from the unlocked chipset that is specifically intended for mid range to high end overclocking.

Again, we aren't talking about Intel motherboards. I have no reason to doubt this is true. However this is irrelevant to the conversation at hand.

On AM4, yes, there are B450 boards that have VRM configurations that are just as good as SOME of the lower end X series boards. But there are NO, NONE, NON, NEIT, (Are we seeing a pattern here?) B450 boards that have VRM configurations as good as ALL of the X series boards, hence the higher end X470, X570 chipset has EVERYTHING to do with having a higher end VRM configuration, at least on the boards that DO have a higher end configuration, because they cannot be found on any of the lower end chipset boards.

There are NO B350 or B450 boards with 6, 8, 10 or 12 phase VRMs. Those are ONLY found on X series boards. Therefore, clearly, the chipset has everything to do with that. By intent.
COULD they put more power phases and higher quality components on these boards with lower end chipsets?
Sure. Of course they COULD.
Do they? No. Because they ARE lower end chipsets, and by intent, they are not meant for use under the same kinds of conditions or for the same level of hardware that the higher end chipset boards were designed for. That, is by design, and is why they ARE cheaper to buy.

Most of this is absolutely true but you still seem to be missing the point. None of that extra power delivery matters for a 3600(x)/3700x/3800x/ and even possibly a 3900x over a good MSI b450 board. You are twisting a very specific argument that was made against your overly broad generalization and deflecting with obvious statements that I'm A) not even disputing and B) have already said myself. Flagship x470s have great power delivery. It's wasted on these CPU's and isn't a compelling argument to choose them. There are compelling reasons to choose higher end motherboards. Overkill VRMs isn't really one of them. Particularly for a gaming PC that uses a highly efficient CPU that pretty much gives everything its got on stock settings. The analysis of the VRM components has been done. The information is there clearly laid out for everyone to look at.

Look, I probably wouldn't put a $4-500 CPU on a good $100 B450 motherboard. I wouldn't fault somebody else for doing it either. I also wouldn't put one on $200-300 x470 board (if I didn't already own it) when x570 boards in this price range exist.

I'll get the semantic argument out of the way. The MSI B450i AC plus has a 6 phase VRM with the same 60 amp power stages as the Asus ROG Strix X470-F Gaming. We can chalk that up to another overly broad generalization.

Your obsession with how many phases a VRM has suggests to me you might not be well versed in what makes a good effective VRM vs what makes an overkill and expensive VRM. There are disadvantages and advantages to using a 4 phase VRM. The disadvantages are fairly easy to overcome with good heat sinks and high switching frequency. A well designed 4 phase with plenty of current capacity can actually have some advantages. Cutting doublers out of the equation will give you better transient response for example.

Jeez dude. I thought I was stubborn. You made several questionable statements early in this thread. It's okay to admit that you were wrong or may have overgeneralized.

 

[InvalidError]

There are disadvantages and advantages to using a 4 phase VRM. The disadvantages are fairly easy to overcome with good heat sinks and high switching frequency.

Don't let fancy heatsinks fool you: the junction-case thermal resistance of TSOP style packages typically exceeds 20C/W vs less than 5C/W for the drain pins. Unless the heatsink is heatsinking the pads the drain pins are connected to, you would have better results scrapping the heatsinks then replacing them with a fan blowing air at the VRM FETs and their drain pins/pads to keep the PCB itself cooler.

Below 150W, heatsinks on properly designed four-phases VRMs are mostly cosmetic.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Jeez dude. I thought I was stubborn.

You are. I am too.

Bottom line for me is that with all the problems we've seen on Ryzen with high core parts on lower phase boards, I'm disinclined to want to make recommendations that barely cover the requirements. Too many examples of this not working out well on the last generation, and of course ALL of this is being done WITHOUT even seeing the effect of multiple x4 M.2 devices using lanes OR PCIe 4.0 devices sucking additional power through the delivery system. When that starts happening, some of this conjecture might look pretty silly after that.

I'll give you the fact that there are some 4 phase designs that are preferable to some supposedly higher phase count configurations, but it's unlikely that you'll find those on low priced offerings AND I'm very reluctant to make recommendations to use MSI boards in the lower to mid end of the spectrum given all the problems that I and others have seen them have on boards that are supposed to be well above the level where any such problems should exist, and have exemplary reviews. Yes, I know, that's a whole different argument and not specifically relevant to this conversation, but it might have some relevance eventually.

Just doesn't seem to pan out in real world usage.

But I'm good with waiting to see it happen rather than arguing over something I can't currently offer any evidence of.