[SOLVED] Ryzen vs Intel

[amulsingh01]

I last built a computer 3 years ago and have gradually fallen out of the loop of the new processors. I want to upgrade from an I7-7700k but I've heard the newer Ryzens are on par with Intel. I mainly want to game with some light streaming, but I am also a very future-oriented person which means I want a processor that will last me years to come with no upgrades. I was looking at the I9-9900k but I was also looking at the Ryzen R9s and the R7s. From benchmarks that I've seen, Intel still wins at the gaming side of things but Ryzen will last me in the long run. What are your suggestions?

 

[Darkbreeze]

What is your budget, which parts exactly do you wish to upgrade, what parts exactly do you have currently and what country are you in?

 

[amulsingh01]

What is your budget, which parts exactly do you wish to upgrade, what parts exactly do you have currently and what country are you in?

I want to upgrade my CPU and I don't necessarily have a budget but I'd want to keep it in the 400s or below (I don't mind going above tbh). I'm located in the US.

 

[Darkbreeze]

What are your current memory specifications?

Speed? Capacity? How many sticks?

If it's not already obvious, it should be, that you have nowhere to upgrade to on your current platform. You already have the biggest CPU that can be used in your current motherboard. Moving to anything newer will require a new motherboard and if you have slow memory, anything below 2933mhz, you won't want to use that with Ryzen so I'd recommend planning to buy a new kit and either sell the old one, use it elsewhere or save it as backup parts.

 

[amulsingh01]

What are your current memory specifications?

Speed? Capacity? How many sticks?

If it's not already obvious, it should be, that you have nowhere to upgrade to on your current platform. You already have the biggest CPU that can be used in your current motherboard. Moving to anything newer will require a new motherboard and if you have slow memory, anything below 2933mhz, you won't want to use that with Ryzen so I'd recommend planning to buy a new kit and either sell the old one, use it elsewhere or save it as backup parts.

I'm aware I have to get a new mobo and I'm fine with that. I'm mainly concerned about which CPU to get (mobo was not mean to be in the budget I said). Regarding memory, I have two 8gb sticks @3000mhz.

 

[Darkbreeze]

This, is the recommendation I'd say best offers a mix of great performance, longevity and sensible budget. Excellent board. Supports Ryzen 3000 series out of the box. Terrific VRM configuration especially for the price. If you want to spend a bit more for a moderately better board, I'd recommend the B450 Gaming Pro Carbon but you will need to first update the BIOS for it to support Ryzen 3000 series. Not a problem since it has BIOS flashback and does not need a CPU installed in order to update the BIOS.

You CAN use your current memory with this configuration but honestly you will be leaving SOME performance, perhaps not enough to warrant purchasing different memory, on the table. 3600mhz is the sweet spot for Ryzen 3000. Anything between 3200 and 3600mhz is good though. 3000mhz would be the minimum I'd want to see.


PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor ($326.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard ($114.99 @ B&H)
Total: $441.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-11-26 23:08 EST-0500

 

[amulsingh01]

This, is the recommendation I'd say best offers a mix of great performance, longevity and sensible budget. Excellent board. Supports Ryzen 3000 series out of the box. Terrific VRM configuration especially for the price. If you want to spend a bit more for a moderately better board, I'd recommend the B450 Gaming Pro Carbon but you will need to first update the BIOS for it to support Ryzen 3000 series. Not a problem since it has BIOS flashback and does not need a CPU installed in order to update the BIOS.

You CAN use your current memory with this configuration but honestly you will be leaving SOME performance, perhaps not enough to warrant purchasing different memory, on the table. 3600mhz is the sweet spot for Ryzen 3000. Anything between 3200 and 3600mhz is good though. 3000mhz would be the minimum I'd want to see.


PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor ($326.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard ($114.99 @ B&H)
Total: $441.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-11-26 23:08 EST-0500

Thanks for the feedback. Honestly, after seeing lots of benchmarks, I have to agree that the Ryzen is nearly on par for my needs with the I9 for cheaper so I'm definitely leaning towards it. Is the upgrade for the RAM worth it or you think it's fine with 3000?

 

[Darkbreeze]

My recommendation would be, truthfully, to use what you already have and SEE what it feels like to YOU.

If it were ME, I'd want to be running 3600mhz because I'm a prike like that, lol. I can always use existing memory somewhere else, or throw it in a client build, or whatever, so getting a new kit because it offers something I don't have with an existing kit is something I'd usually be willing to do. But I WOULD probably at least TRY it with what I already have first, just for comparative purposes and for many people they may decide that it's just fine and no other kit is necessary or desirable.

If you want to get the most out of that system then yes, getting a GOOD set of 3600mhz sticks is probably obligatory/compulsory. If you JUST want to get GOOD ENOUGH performance, then you just have to SEE if it IS good enough. If it's not, then nothing lost, get a different kit THEN.

 

[shivababbli]

This, is the recommendation I'd say best offers a mix of great performance, longevity and sensible budget. Excellent board. Supports Ryzen 3000 series out of the box. Terrific VRM configuration especially for the price. If you want to spend a bit more for a moderately better board, I'd recommend the B450 Gaming Pro Carbon but you will need to first update the BIOS for it to support Ryzen 3000 series. Not a problem since it has BIOS flashback and does not need a CPU installed in order to update the BIOS.

You CAN use your current memory with this configuration but honestly you will be leaving SOME performance, perhaps not enough to warrant purchasing different memory, on the table. 3600mhz is the sweet spot for Ryzen 3000. Anything between 3200 and 3600mhz is good though. 3000mhz would be the minimum I'd want to see.


PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor ($326.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard ($114.99 @ B&H)
Total: $441.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-11-26 23:08 EST-0500

I would say that a x570 board and 3900x will be great for a long run as it supports pcie4 too.... And since he streams sometimes guess those extra cores will come in handy.....

 

[TJ Hooker]

FYI, Intel can benefit just as much or more than Ryzen from fast RAM for gaming. So don't feel that extra money for extra fast memory is an additional expense that only applies to Ryzen CPUs; you could say the same thing about getting an Intel chip.

I wouldn't bother getting new RAM if I were you though.

 

[InvalidError]

So don't feel that extra money for extra fast memory is an additional expense that only applies to Ryzen CPUs.

Everything is a game of diminishing returns. I'm an advocate for peak bang-per-buck. Once my target performance is met and the performance improvement of going beyond that is nowhere near proportional to the cost increase, I call it quits.

 

[TerryLaze]

From benchmarks that I've seen, Intel still wins at the gaming side of things but Ryzen will last me in the long run. What are your suggestions?

Keep in mind that Intel's CPUs are being held back right now by the GPUs that are way too slow for them,intel has another 25% of clocks for the future while ryzen has maybe 5-10%
More threads do not make your games faster...
(when you have already exceeded the games max threads by a lot)
Ryzen is a great deal if you need 3D rendering but if you don't there is zero reason to get one.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmxkpTtwx1k

 

[theonerm2]

Keep in mind that Intel's CPUs are being held back right now by the GPUs that are way too slow for them,intel has another 25% of clocks for the future while ryzen has maybe 5-10%
More threads do not make your games faster...
(when you have already exceeded the games max threads by a lot)
Ryzen is a great deal if you need 3D rendering but if you don't there is zero reason to get one.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmxkpTtwx1k

More threads can make the game run smoother though. Especially if you actually need them. But quite honestly I think 8 cores is more than enough and I think It will be more than enough for a few years at least.

 

[amulsingh01]

My recommendation would be, truthfully, to use what you already have and SEE what it feels like to YOU.

If it were ME, I'd want to be running 3600mhz because I'm a prike like that, lol. I can always use existing memory somewhere else, or throw it in a client build, or whatever, so getting a new kit because it offers something I don't have with an existing kit is something I'd usually be willing to do. But I WOULD probably at least TRY it with what I already have first, just for comparative purposes and for many people they may decide that it's just fine and no other kit is necessary or desirable.

If you want to get the most out of that system then yes, getting a GOOD set of 3600mhz sticks is probably obligatory/compulsory. If you JUST want to get GOOD ENOUGH performance, then you just have to SEE if it IS good enough. If it's not, then nothing lost, get a different kit THEN.

I've been reading that the AM4 socket will last longer and I could theoretically upgrade my CPU down the line if need be without purchasing a new board, unlike Intel who might change sockets. Do you know how true this is because that will be another selling point to me regard longevity?

 

[RodroX]

Hi, Intel will change socket, they already said they will.

AMD's AM4 socket still have one more Ryzen Gen up ahead, Ryzen 4xxx, to be launched next year.

I have to agree with Darkbreeze here, I believe too that right now, the Ryzen 7 3700X is basically one of the best all rounded CPUs, it comes with a very decent and good stock cooler, have a great price point, you can get a cheap mobo and still overclock (if thats what you like to do), and have the same amount of threads as the pricier Core i9 9900K (which doesn't include a cooler).

Keep in mind that depending on the game, while Intel may still have the lead on most, AMD now have very powerful new beasts out there and as soon as you go up the resolution (from 1080p to 1440p or 4K) the games become more GPU bound and so the FPS diference become really low no matter what CPU you choose of those you mention.

Thats why its is impotant to know whats your playing resolution. If its 1080P, then maybe the Core i9 9900K could make a diference, but as soon as you step up to the 1440p landscape any of those CPU will do great.

For the memory, if you can sell yor current cpu+mobo+memory togheter, then do it, and get a good 2x8GB DDR4 3200MHz low latency kit (CL14) or a good 3600MHz one. Memory prices are at a really sweet spot right now, so its a great time to grap the best you can if you live in the US!

Cheers

PD, if money is not a problem, avoid the 9700K <- its not a bad CPU for gaming, in fact is really good one, but Intel disable the HT on that one, so its only an 8 cores / 8 threads cpu, and if you're streaming and maybe doing some rendering, you will want the extra threads from the i9-9900K or the R7-3700X/3900X, etc.

 

[InvalidError]

I've been reading that the AM4 socket will last longer and I could theoretically upgrade my CPU down the line if need be without purchasing a new board, unlike Intel who might change sockets. Do you know how true this is because that will be another selling point to me regard longevity?

2020 is the last year of AMD's AM4 support and Intel is switching to LGA1200 for Comet Lake.

Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about platform lifespan as chances are that unless you grossly under-buy the CPU for whatever it is you want to do, you'll have one or more platform-related reasons to want to upgrade the motherboard anyway by the time you want to upgrade the CPU. For example, whatever you buy now, you are going to need a new CPU, motherboard and possibly RAM to use PCIe5, DDR5, USB4, etc. in 1-2 years.

Buy whatever you need for the foreseeable future that makes sense for your budget, worry about upgrades when and where you actually need them.

 

[Darkbreeze]

AM4 socket compatibility was only guaranteed through 2020. That means that whatever is coming down the pipe MIGHT or MIGHT NOT be compatible with any of the boards that are out today. And even if what comes next DOES use the AM4 socket, it might still not be compatible. In point of fact they were -----> <----- this close to not allowing any of the existing motherboards to be used with Ryzen 3000 series and mandating that you had to have an X570 board, so next time is anybody's guess.

Regardless, I wouldn't COUNT on whatever comes next being compatible with what is out now. Just keep in mind that if you want to upgrade then something like the 3950x is going to require at least a decent, if not very good, motherboard, when that time comes if it does. Intel, is much, much worse. For the last six generations a new motherboard has been required every two generations.

 

[amulsingh01]

Hi, Intel will change socket, they already said they will.

AMD's AM4 socket still have one more Ryzen Gen up ahead, Ryzen 4xxx, to be launched next year.

I have to agree with Darkbreeze here, I believe too that right now, the Ryzen 7 3700X is basically one of the best all rounded CPUs, it comes with a very decent and good stock cooler, have a great price point, you can get a cheap mobo and still overclock (if thats what you like to do), and have the same amount of threads as the pricier Core i9 9900K (which doesn't include a cooler).

Keep in mind that depending on the game, while Intel may still have the lead on most, AMD now have very powerful new beasts out there and as soon as you go up the resolution (from 1080p to 1440p or 4K) the games become more GPU bound and so the FPS diference become really low no matter what CPU you choose of those you mention.

Thats why its is impotant to know whats your playing resolution. If its 1080P, then maybe the Core i9 9900K could make a diference, but as soon as you step up to the 1440p landscape any of those CPU will do great.

For the memory, if you can sell yor current cpu+mobo+memory togheter, then do it, and get a good 2x8GB DDR4 3200MHz low latency kit (CL14) or a good 3600MHz one. Memory prices are at a really sweet spot right now, so its a great time to grap the best you can if you live in the US!

Cheers

PD, if money is not a problem, avoid the 9700K <- its not a bad CPU for gaming, in fact is really good one, but Intel disable the HT on that one, so its only an 8 cores / 8 threads cpu, and if you're streaming and maybe doing some rendering, you will want the extra threads from the i9-9900K or the R7-3700X/3900X, etc.

Thanks for the response. I play on 1080p @144hz and I already have a liquid cooler from my previous build. the I9 is tempting for the higher FPS on games at 1080p, but idk if the $100 more justifies it. At the same time, I look for longevity out of what I buy which makes the I9 also tempting for gaming.

 

[InvalidError]

Intel, is much, much worse. For the last six generations a new motherboard has been required every two generations.

Only six? I don't believe that has ever happened (at least not in an official capacity) since the days of everyone (Intel, AMD, Cyrix, and perhaps one or two more) using the same socket ended in the 90s when Intel moved the mainstream to Pentium II. LGA1156 and LGA1366 were single-generation sockets and LGA1150 was practically single-generation too since Broadwell was a mess.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Ok, I should have said "At least the last six generations", although it's probably a bit more. 8 for sure. Sandy and Ivy. Haswell and Haswell refresh. Broadwell is irrelevant because it was never commercially released to the mainstream. Skylake and Kaby lake. Coffee lake and Coffee lake refresh. Prior to that, who cares. It's too long ago. LOL.