Sacrifice cross-aligned priest?

Manuel

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I am playing a Level 11 *chaotic* male *human* wizard. Thanks to
my CoMR, Gauntlets of Power and MMissile I killed the Minetown
shopkeepers -save good Izchak- and bought protection from the
*cross-aligned* priest. Later, after polying for crystal
plate mail and casting protection, I took the priest. It was
easy thanks to the "charm monster" spell, which dealt with the
summoned insects.

My doubts now are:

(1) After killing the shopkeepers and the cross-aligned priest,
and knowing that I'm carrying an uncursed luckstone, what should
I expect my luck and alignment to be like? (suppose they were
quite normal before this)

(2) Can I try to convert the altar by sacrificing the
corpse of the priest? Something inside me says "Danger, danger",
maybe Thoth would get Very Angry at me)

(3) After writing up to this point, I have remembered that I know
the "create monster" spell. I think I should use this to get a
decent corpse to convert the altar, and then #offer the priest.
Any suggestions? What corpse should I consider "decent" for
trying to convert the altar with it?

(4) By the way, I still haven't gone any deeper in the mines. I
thought it could be a better idea to clear the mines before killing
shopkeepers and priest, but this way I have protection, which can
be necessary if I find tough monsters -like the [baby?] dragon
that disintegrated my last character in the Cellar-. What do you
guys think of this?

--
Manuel
 

Manuel

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Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> Manuel wrote:
> >> (4) By the way, I still haven't gone any deeper in the mines. I
> >> thought it could be a better idea to clear the mines before
killing
> >> shopkeepers and priest, but this way I have protection, which can
> >> be necessary if I find tough monsters -like the [baby?] dragon
> >> that disintegrated my last character in the Cellar-. What do you
> >> guys think of this?
>
> I don't see what you mean with "this way I have protection". You
could
> have donated to the priest for protection and then *not* have killed
> him.

I got a couple of things mixed up. The protection thing referred to
"kindly asking the shopkeepers for money". Killing the priest is
another
question.

Now I am quite happy with the result of this way (kill watchmen,
then shopkeepers, donate, kill priest, convert altar and begin
sacrificing, then go for the rest of the mines). But I'm sure
it can be improved. What happens if I try to kill the priest in
sight of the watchmen?

Now, after some sacrificing I have MagicBane, Trollsbane (blargh) and
Frost Brand. Already advanced dagger to skilled by clearing the mines
with MB. Trollsbane will never be used. But... what do I do with Frost
Brand? It's a long sword (unskilled), and I've been #enhance'ing quite
a
few things, so I may have no free slots by now. Should I just forget
it?
Stash it, then come back for it when I have gained like three more
levels? (I'm level 11 now). Is there any use in twoweaponing MB +
quarterstaff? Please help me, this is the first time I need to make
a choice of this kind.

Thank you guys, you are being of much help.

--
Manuel.
 
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On 2005-03-17, Manuel <manuel.matias@gmail.com> wrote:
> (1) After killing the shopkeepers and the cross-aligned priest,
> and knowing that I'm carrying an uncursed luckstone, what should
> I expect my luck and alignment to be like? (suppose they were
> quite normal before this)
>

I dont think any of those should have had negative effect on your luck..
Effect on your alignment probably isnt that big of a deal that far
into the game, since you should have already been wayyy pious..
You could always check with a stethoscope and wand of enlightenment..


> (2) Can I try to convert the altar by sacrificing the
> corpse of the priest? Something inside me says "Danger, danger",
> maybe Thoth would get Very Angry at me)
>

If you are chaotic, then its not a problem anyways.
If you weren't it only matters whether the priest is your race or not.

> (3) After writing up to this point, I have remembered that I know
> the "create monster" spell. I think I should use this to get a
> decent corpse to convert the altar, and then #offer the priest.
> Any suggestions? What corpse should I consider "decent" for
> trying to convert the altar with it?
>

Anything accept a unicorn of your alignment or the altar's current alignmnet.
Being chaotic, something of your own race would work extra well- beyond
that, it doesnt really matter at all.

> (4) By the way, I still haven't gone any deeper in the mines. I
> thought it could be a better idea to clear the mines before killing
> shopkeepers and priest, but this way I have protection, which can
> be necessary if I find tough monsters -like the [baby?] dragon
> that disintegrated my last character in the Cellar-. What do you
> guys think of this?
>

baby dragons dont disintegrate things-- none of them have breath weapons.
Most likely, it was something that hit a poly trap, or a chamelon that
happened to be a dragon atm.
You might go to soko and see if you can get a "oR-- that can prevent
a lot of problems...

--
Andrew D. Hilton
UPenn Phd Student
 
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"Manuel" <manuel.matias@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1111102214.254591.19070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>I am playing a Level 11 *chaotic* male *human* wizard. Thanks to
> my CoMR, Gauntlets of Power and MMissile I killed the Minetown
> shopkeepers -save good Izchak- and bought protection from the
> *cross-aligned* priest. Later, after polying for crystal
> plate mail and casting protection, I took the priest. It was
> easy thanks to the "charm monster" spell, which dealt with the
> summoned insects.
>
> My doubts now are:
>
> (1) After killing the shopkeepers and the cross-aligned priest,
> and knowing that I'm carrying an uncursed luckstone, what should
> I expect my luck and alignment to be like? (suppose they were
> quite normal before this)
>
> (2) Can I try to convert the altar by sacrificing the
> corpse of the priest? Something inside me says "Danger, danger",
> maybe Thoth would get Very Angry at me)
>
Anhur is the only god chaotic wizards need worry about. Thoth may be a bit
peeved, but worst that could happen is an elemental or a lightning blast.
Offering the priest will instaconvert the altar, and summon a &. Yeenoghu
following you around like a puppy can be irritating, but only fatal if your
wielding Stormy or you decide (foolishly) to answer 'y' to 'Attack
Yeenoghu?' (before you're ready to take on purple &'s)


> (3) After writing up to this point, I have remembered that I know
> the "create monster" spell. I think I should use this to get a
> decent corpse to convert the altar, and then #offer the priest.
> Any suggestions? What corpse should I consider "decent" for
> trying to convert the altar with it?

As mentioned above, human sacs autoconvert altars.

>
> (4) By the way, I still haven't gone any deeper in the mines. I
> thought it could be a better idea to clear the mines before killing
> shopkeepers and priest, but this way I have protection, which can
> be necessary if I find tough monsters -like the [baby?] dragon
> that disintegrated my last character in the Cellar-. What do you
> guys think of this?

Usually safe. Some people go to minetown, check the tools, go back out and
go down to Soko, so that the zoo in Soko isn't filled with nastier monsters
(because mlvl is dependent on clvl). Clearing Soko, they go back and get
the luckstone, then, if all that's done, they consider themselves in the
middle game :) Good luck.

Justin Hiltscher
 
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Manuel wrote:
>what do I do with Frost Brand? It's a long sword (unskilled), and I've
>been #enhance'ing quite a few things, so I may have no free slots by
>now. Should I just forget it?

Get yourself a pet Balrog or Marilith. They'll gladly wield it.
 

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e_a_olson wrote:
> Manuel wrote:
> >what do I do with Frost Brand? It's a long sword (unskilled), and
I've
> >been #enhance'ing quite a few things, so I may have no free slots by
> >now. Should I just forget it?
>
> Get yourself a pet Balrog or Marilith. They'll gladly wield it.


Great idea! What other monsters would be nice pets wielding it?
And what about Trollsbane? I happen to know the Charm Monster
spell (which IMO makes some things too easy, I'll see if I find
any drawbacks later on), so I need to know which monsters I
should/can/shouldn't charm.
 

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Wes Irby wrote:
>
> Frost Brand is a nice weapon for anyone. You may even find
> it preferable to Magicbane late in the game. For me,
> Magicbane enchanted to +2 is my preference throughout. Some
> like to charge it to +7 for the trip through the planes when
> the monsters have a higher ability to resist its special
> effects and I can see the logic to that.

What makes it better to keep a low enchantment? Are there any
drawbacks on enchanting weapons?

> What a wizard needs from his god is Magicbane (guaranteed
> first gift) and spellbooks, not weapons. Once you get a
> message that indicates you can pray, do so immediately. That
> way you won't get a pile of artifact weapons you don't need
> and you will get some spellbooks that you do need.

Nice piece of advice, thanks. I'll remember that for next
game. Anyway I didn't plan on wishing for artifacts in the
first place, so having been granted these artifact weapons is
not really a bad thing, is it?
 
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Andrew D. Hilton wrote:
> On 2005-03-17, Manuel <manuel.matias@gmail.com> wrote:

>> (2) Can I try to convert the altar by sacrificing the
>> corpse of the priest? Something inside me says "Danger, danger",
>> maybe Thoth would get Very Angry at me)

> If you are chaotic, then its not a problem anyways.

He is chaotic. He told us so in the first line of his message.

And indeed, chaotics may sacrifice their own race without severe
consequences. You *will* summon something, but whatever it is you are
summoning, it will be peaceful (though it will get in your way a lot: if
you have Stormbringer, don't wield it when it's near).

> If you weren't it only matters whether the priest is your race or not.

Priests are always human, and the poster was so, too. If he wasn't
chaotic himself, he shouldn't offer a priest corpse.

>> (3) After writing up to this point, I have remembered that I know
>> the "create monster" spell. I think I should use this to get a
>> decent corpse to convert the altar, and then #offer the priest.
>> Any suggestions? What corpse should I consider "decent" for
>> trying to convert the altar with it?

Be sure not to wait too long. Fifty turns after killing something, a
corpse can no longer be sacrificed.

To convert an altar, the size of the offer doesn't matter at all, if I
recall correctly. A mere newt corpse would suffice.

> Anything accept a unicorn of your alignment or the altar's current
> alignmnet. Being chaotic, something of your own race would work extra
> well- beyond that, it doesnt really matter at all.

["except", not "accept"]

Sacrificing something of you own race does not work extra well, unless
you consider summoning a peaceful demon that extra effect.

>> (4) By the way, I still haven't gone any deeper in the mines. I
>> thought it could be a better idea to clear the mines before killing
>> shopkeepers and priest, but this way I have protection, which can
>> be necessary if I find tough monsters -like the [baby?] dragon
>> that disintegrated my last character in the Cellar-. What do you
>> guys think of this?

I don't see what you mean with "this way I have protection". You could
have donated to the priest for protection and then *not* have killed
him.

> baby dragons dont disintegrate things-- none of them have breath
> weapons. Most likely, it was something that hit a poly trap, or a
> chamelon that happened to be a dragon atm.

A dragon ATM? Will it accept the Platinum Yendorian Express Card?

[In other words, please don't use abbrevations you made up yourself,
especially if they already have a meaning in English]

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
 
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Manuel wrote:

> Now, after some sacrificing I have MagicBane, Trollsbane (blargh) and
> Frost Brand. Already advanced dagger to skilled by clearing the mines
> with MB. Trollsbane will never be used. But... what do I do with Frost
> Brand? It's a long sword (unskilled), and I've been #enhance'ing quite

Frost Brand is a nice weapon for anyone. You may even find
it preferable to Magicbane late in the game. For me,
Magicbane enchanted to +2 is my preference throughout. Some
like to charge it to +7 for the trip through the planes when
the monsters have a higher ability to resist its special
effects and I can see the logic to that.

What a wizard needs from his god is Magicbane (guaranteed
first gift) and spellbooks, not weapons. Once you get a
message that indicates you can pray, do so immediately. That
way you won't get a pile of artifact weapons you don't need
and you will get some spellbooks that you do need.
--
Wes
The early bird may get the worm,
but the second mouse gets the cheese.
 
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Justin Hiltscher wrote:

> human sacs autoconvert altars.

Only if you're human yourself. If you're any other race, it will be just
another sacrifice (which may or may not convert the altar depending on
the whims of your god).

Raisse, killed by the wrath of Thoth

--
irina@valdyas.org LegoHack: http://www.valdyas.org/irina/nethack/
Status of Raisse (piously neutral): Level 8 HP 63(67) AC -3, fast.
 
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"Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote:
>Andrew D. Hilton wrote:
>> baby dragons dont disintegrate things-- none of them have breath
>> weapons. Most likely, it was something that hit a poly trap, or a
>> chamelon that happened to be a dragon atm.
>
>A dragon ATM? Will it accept the Platinum Yendorian Express Card?
>
>[In other words, please don't use abbrevations you made up yourself,
>especially if they already have a meaning in English]

It turns out to be the case that Andrew did not make up the abbreviation
"ATM" meaning "at the moment" (rather than "automated teller machine")
himself. Or at least, if he did, he did it sufficiently long ago for it
to have become unremarkable usage in various online environments.
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
My roguelike games page (including my BSD-licenced roguelike) can be found at:
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~mpread/roguelikes.html
 
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Manuel wrote:
>
> Wes Irby wrote:
> >
> > Frost Brand is a nice weapon for anyone. You may even find
> > it preferable to Magicbane late in the game. For me,
> > Magicbane enchanted to +2 is my preference throughout. Some
> > like to charge it to +7 for the trip through the planes when
> > the monsters have a higher ability to resist its special
> > effects and I can see the logic to that.
>
> What makes it better to keep a low enchantment? Are there any
> drawbacks on enchanting weapons?

Magicbane has several special effects that add damage and/or
some other useful result. These specials reduce in frequency
as enchantment increases. The optimum enchantment for
Magicbane per RGRN folklore is +2.
>
> > What a wizard needs from his god is Magicbane (guaranteed
> > first gift) and spellbooks, not weapons. Once you get a
> > message that indicates you can pray, do so immediately. That
> > way you won't get a pile of artifact weapons you don't need
> > and you will get some spellbooks that you do need.
>
> Nice piece of advice, thanks. I'll remember that for next
> game. Anyway I didn't plan on wishing for artifacts in the
> first place, so having been granted these artifact weapons is
> not really a bad thing, is it?

Except that you might have had two useful spellbooks or
other non weapon gifts instead of two useless artifacts.
Plus the prayer result is immediate and you might have to
sacrifice many times after the prayer time-out has been
eliminated to get that weapon you didn't need.
--
Wes
The early bird may get the worm,
but the second mouse gets the cheese.
 
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On 2005-03-18, Boudewijn Waijers <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote:
> A dragon ATM? Will it accept the Platinum Yendorian Express Card?
>
> [In other words, please don't use abbrevations you made up yourself,
> especially if they already have a meaning in English]

I certainly didnt make it up-- Ive heard a zillion other people (or should
I say ppl) use it- and googling for "internet abbreviations ATM"
shows several internet abbreviation list websites, which define it for
"at the moment", which is what i was using it as..

--
Andrew D. Hilton
UPenn Phd Student
 
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"Manuel" <manuel.matias@gmail.com> wrote:

> Now, after some sacrificing I have MagicBane, Trollsbane (blargh) and
> Frost Brand. Already advanced dagger to skilled by clearing the mines
> with MB. Trollsbane will never be used. But... what do I do with Frost
> Brand? It's a long sword (unskilled), and I've been #enhance'ing quite a
> few things, so I may have no free slots by now. Should I just forget it?

You're a wizard - you want to get your spells up first. OTOH, you don't
need to get all spell skills up to the maximum, so at some point you'll
probably have a slot left over, and you could spend that on Frosty. It's
a really good weapon, especially in Gehennom. OTOH, your attack spells
should do more damage, at sufficient XP. OTTH, it's good to have a
backup, especially one as useful as Frost Brand.

> Stash it, then come back for it when I have gained like three more
> levels? (I'm level 11 now). Is there any use in twoweaponing MB +
> quarterstaff?

You're a wizard, so you cannot two-weapon (unless you're using a very
old version). Even if you could, a quarterstaff is a two-handed weapon.

Richard
 
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Manuel wrote:
>> For me,
>>Magicbane enchanted to +2 is my preference throughout. [,,,]
>
> What makes it better to keep a low enchantment? Are there any
> drawbacks on enchanting weapons?

Generally not, but Magicbane is a special case. You're less likely to
get its good magical effects when it's enchanted higher.

--
If geiger counter does not click,
the coffee, she is just not thick
 
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"Raisse the Thaumaturge" <raisse@valdyas.org> wrote in message
news:423a9cf9$0$26197$e4fe514c@dreader17.news.xs4all.nl...
> Justin Hiltscher wrote:
>
>> human sacs autoconvert altars.
>
> Only if you're human yourself. If you're any other race, it will be just
> another sacrifice (which may or may not convert the altar depending on
> the whims of your god).
>
> Raisse, killed by the wrath of Thoth
>
Right, more specifically, same-race sacs autoconvert altars to chaotic.

Justin Hiltscher
 
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Richard Bos wrote:

> "Manuel" <manuel.matias@gmail.com> wrote:

Snip should i keep frosty?

>> Stash it, then come back for it when I have gained like three more
>> levels? (I'm level 11 now). Is there any use in twoweaponing MB +
>> quarterstaff?
>
> You're a wizard, so you cannot two-weapon (unless you're using a
> very old version). Even if you could, a quarterstaff is a two-handed
> weapon.
>

Well, you could poly into a monster with 2W attacks and two weapon,
but for a wizard i wouldn't bother. Keep frosty as a backup, and if
you have any skills left after leveling up then advance frosty. With
a human at 18 int at exp lvl 30 i only advanced attack and matter to
expert and everything was at skilled and my rates were all at 0%

(no HoB or robe)

Jorge
 
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Wes Irby <w_irby@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Manuel wrote:
>
> > Now, after some sacrificing I have MagicBane, Trollsbane (blargh) and
> > Frost Brand. Already advanced dagger to skilled by clearing the mines
> > with MB. Trollsbane will never be used. But... what do I do with Frost
> > Brand? It's a long sword (unskilled), and I've been #enhance'ing quite
>
> Frost Brand is a nice weapon for anyone. You may even find
> it preferable to Magicbane late in the game.

Not too late in the game, though. It can catch most of the Amulet's
curses, but only if you wield it. Carrying it is not enough.

Richard
 
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Andrew D. Hilton wrote:

> I certainly didnt make it up-- Ive heard a zillion other people (or
> should I say ppl) use it- and googling for "internet abbreviations
> ATM" shows several internet abbreviation list websites, which define
> it for "at the moment", which is what i was using it as..

Granted.

Still, in newsgroups, where the majority of the audience usually does
not have English as its mother tongue, it is wise and polite not to use
abbrevations.

I did know what you meant with atm, but others probably didn't. I mostly
used my comment as an excuse to make the PYEC joke.

Not trying to be pedantic, note that people who don't speak or write
English very well will never learn how to do it properly if they are
reading incorrect English over and over again (didnt, Ive, i)...

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
 
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Manuel wrote:
> Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> > Manuel wrote:
>
> > I don't see what you mean with "this way I have protection".
>
> I got a couple of things mixed up. The protection thing referred to
> "kindly asking the shopkeepers for money".

Protection has a technical meaning within Nethack.
Protection is extra AC points while naked. It
makes armor more effective.

> Now, after some sacrificing I have MagicBane, Trollsbane (blargh) and
> Frost Brand. Already advanced dagger to skilled by clearing the mines
> with MB. Trollsbane will never be used. But... what do I do with
Frost
> Brand?

It is one of the best weapons in the game, so you
start using it and Magicbane as your main weapons.
Swap back and forth, MB for light work, FB for
heavy melee combat.

> It's a long sword (unskilled), and I've been #enhance'ing quite
> a few things, so I may have no free slots by now. Should I just
forget
> it?

Lesson learned - Skill slots are valuable. Never
#enhance unless you can 1) explain why you will be
using this weapon case at least 10 levels deeper,
and 2) can explain what it costs to *not* advance
something else.

Wizards should eventually advance dagger to Expert,
all of their spell schools to maximum, and only
other weapons classes if they are artifacts and if
you can explain why you will still be using that
weapon 10 levels deeper.

> Stash it, then come back for it when I have gained like three more
> levels? (I'm level 11 now).

It is one of the best weapons in the game. Keep
it wielded or as your alternate weapon.

> Is there any use in twoweaponing MB + quarterstaff?

Impossible for two reasons. 1) Quarterstaff is
two handed. 2) Wizards can not #twoweapon.
 
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Richard Bos wrote:
> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
> > Wizards should eventually advance dagger to Expert,
>
> Yes, but...

In my opinion the weapons a wizard should advance are
the dagger class because of Magicbane and that stack
of elven daggers that gets built up in the quiver for
throwing, and the crowning weapon class. Broadsword
or long sword. If Greyswandir or Frost Bane come
available rather than the crowning weapon, consider
that class. But wizards are spell users, so save
most enhancement for spells. A neutral wizard could
end up with Vorpal Blade at crowning (if crowned)
and eventually Frosty without needing to enhance
any weapon classes but dagger and long sword.

> > all of their spell schools to maximum,
>
> ...no. It's quite possible to get your spell failure to 0% for all
> spells without advancing everything to the max.

Excellent point. Maximum is defined as getting as
close to 100% as can be done. If it does not take
a skill slot, even better.

Weapons skills a skill slots are a lesson to be learned
by new players. Skill slots are a limited resource
so they require a strategy. The strategy I suggest
for wizards in only one of several that work well.
To some extent, the many weapons types are there to
tempt new players into squandering skill slots and
the types of trade-off involved are different for each
character class.
 
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"Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote:

> Andrew D. Hilton wrote:
>
> > I certainly didnt make it up-- Ive heard a zillion other people (or
> > should I say ppl) use it- and googling for "internet abbreviations
> > ATM" shows several internet abbreviation list websites, which define
> > it for "at the moment", which is what i was using it as..
>
> Granted.
>
> Still, in newsgroups, where the majority of the audience usually does
> not have English as its mother tongue, it is wise and polite not to use
> abbrevations.

Feh. If the natives don't use their full English vocabulary at us
furriners, how the blazes are we ever going to learn? Bring on the
schwere Woerter, I say - give my dictionary a reason to exist.

Richard
 
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"Doug Freyburger" <dfreybur@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Wizards should eventually advance dagger to Expert,

Yes, but...

> all of their spell schools to maximum,

....no. It's quite possible to get your spell failure to 0% for all
spells without advancing everything to the max.

Richard
 
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On that special day, Richard Bos, (rlb@hoekstra-uitgeverij.nl) said...

> schwere Woerter

Is that an adopted meme like pretzel or kindergarten, and used in
English? "Heavy Words"? Or did you derive it from the German ad with
the two Klitschko brothers, and the Kinder Milchschnitte? If the
latter, it should have been "Tolstoj. Schwere Kost" (Tolstoy, heavy
meal)


Gabriele Neukam

Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-online.de


--
Ah, Information. A property, too valuable these days, to give it away,
just so, at no cost.
 
G

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Gabriele Neukam <Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-online.de> wrote:

> On that special day, Richard Bos, (rlb@hoekstra-uitgeverij.nl) said...
>
> > schwere Woerter
>
> Is that an adopted meme like pretzel or kindergarten, and used in
> English? "Heavy Words"?

No; it's my mistake for "schwierige Woerter". That should tell you how
long ago it is since I had to study those lists.

Richard