Sacrificing

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hello,

A friend and I have a problem, both involving sacrificing creature.
First, I play Blistering Firecat and then attack with it, it gets blocked
by Bottle Gnomes, and can I then play Reckless Abandon on my Blistering
Firecat to do an additional 4 damage. My friend’s problem is if he can
block the Blistering Firecat and the Sacrifice the Bottle Gnomes to gain 3
life

Peter

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Zhambah <zhambah@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> A friend and I have a problem, both involving sacrificing creature.
> First, I play Blistering Firecat and then attack with it, it gets blocked
> by Bottle Gnomes, and can I then play Reckless Abandon on my Blistering
> Firecat to do an additional 4 damage.

Not during the combat phase.

212.7a A player may play a sorcery card from his or her hand during a
main phase of his or her turn, when he or she has priority and the stack
is empty. Playing a sorcery as a spell uses the stack. (See rule 409,
"Playing Spells and Activated Abilities.")

Of course, you haven't described anything that would create a problem
for playing Reckless Abandon during the main phase after the combat
phase.

> My friend's problem is if he can
> block the Blistering Firecat and the Sacrifice the Bottle Gnomes to gain 3
> life

Why would there be any problem playing the ability of the Bottle Gnomes
during the declare blockers step of the combat phase?

306. Combat Phase

306.1. The combat phase has five steps, which proceed in order:
beginning of combat, declare attackers, declare blockers, combat damage,
and end of combat. The declare blockers and combat damage steps are
skipped if no creatures are declared as attackers (see rule 308.4).
There are two combat damage steps if any attacking or blocking creature
has first strike (see rule 502.2) or double strike (see rule 502.28).

309. Declare Blockers Step

309.1. As the declare blockers step begins, the defending player
declares blockers (this game action doesn't use the stack). Then any
abilities that triggered on blockers being declared go on the stack.
(See rule 410, "Handling Triggered Abilities.") Then the active player
gets priority and players may play spells and abilities.

Blistering Firecat
{1}{R}{R}{R}
Creature -- Cat
7/1
Trample, haste
At end of turn, sacrifice Blistering Firecat.
Morph {R}{R} (You may play this face down as a 2/2 creature for {3}.
Turn it face up any time for its morph cost.)

Bottle Gnomes
{3}
Artifact Creature -- Gnome
1/3
Sacrifice Bottle Gnomes: You gain 3 life.

Reckless Abandon
{R}
Sorcery
As an additional cost to play Reckless Abandon, sacrifice a creature.
Reckless Abandon deals 4 damage to target creature or player.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Daniel W. Johnson sez:

<<
>Zhambah <zhambah@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> A friend and I have a problem, both involving sacrificing creature.
>> First, I play Blistering Firecat and then attack with it, it gets blocked
>> by Bottle Gnomes, and can I then play Reckless Abandon on my Blistering
>> Firecat to do an additional 4 damage.
>
>Not during the combat phase.
>
>212.7a A player may play a sorcery card from his or her hand during a
>main phase of his or her turn, when he or she has priority and the stack
>is empty. Playing a sorcery as a spell uses the stack. (See rule 409,
>"Playing Spells and Activated Abilities.")
>
>Of course, you haven't described anything that would create a problem
>for playing Reckless Abandon during the main phase after the combat
>phase.
>>

Well, in the situation as described, he wouldn't have any creature to sacrifice
for it (unless he's playing blue and has Backslide)...at the very least, he
wouldn't have the Firecat to sacrifice, anyway, unless his opponent is more of
a novice than has been described...


----
If [Michael Moore] makes a mistake in [F 9/11], it's not that he's careless
with the facts ... It's that he suggests Bush is the cause of our problems,
when, in fact, Bush is just the result.
--The Libertarian Lessons of Fahrenheit 9/11

 

[peter]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

> A friend and I have a problem, both involving sacrificing creature.
> First, I play Blistering Firecat and then attack with it, it gets blocked
> by Bottle Gnomes, and can I then play Reckless Abandon on my Blistering
> Firecat to do an additional 4 damage. My friend?s problem is if he can
> block the Blistering Firecat and the Sacrifice the Bottle Gnomes to gain 3
> life

A couple things.
First, you can't play Reckless Abandon during the combat because it's
a sorcery. You can either play it in your first main phase before you
attack, in which case the Firecat never attacks, or you play it
afterwards, at which point the Firecat has already attacked, been
blocked, and died, so you'll need to sac another creature.

Note that, if you have no creatures, you cannot play Reckless Abandon.
Sac'ing that creature is an additional cost, and you if you can't pay
the cost, you can't play the spell.

Second, if your Firecat gets blocked, it's blocked. It doesn't matter
what happens to the blocking creature afterwards. If it's destoryed,
sac'ed, removed from combat or turns into a Sheep token, it doesn't
matter. The Firecat is still blocked.

In the Firecat's case, the status of the blocker is important, because
it has trample, so you need to know what the toughness of the blocking
creatures are in order to properly assign damage. Without trample, it
pretty much doesn't matter.

In this case, what your opponent will most likely want to do is wait
until the combat damage is on the stack, with 3 assigned to the Gnomes
(by the Firecat), 4 assigned to him (by the Firecat) and 1 assigned to
the Firecat (by the Gnomes). Then, before this resolves, he sacs the
Gnomes, gains 3 life. Then combat damage results, he loses 4 life,
the Gnomes take nothing, because they are no longer there, and the
Firecat takes lethal damage and dies.


As an aside, if Reckless Abandon were an instant, that would be the
time to sac the Firecat as well. That way, the damage from the cat is
still dealt, plus you get to cast the spell sac'ing a creature that
was going to die anyway.

But it's not. So you can't.

Peter

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:26:35 -0400, Zhambah <zhambah@hotmail.com> wrote:
>A friend and I have a problem, both involving sacrificing creature.
>First, I play Blistering Firecat and then attack with it, it gets blocked
>by Bottle Gnomes, and can I then play Reckless Abandon on my Blistering
>Firecat to do an additional 4 damage.

Reckless Abandon R Sorcery
As an additional cost to play ~, sacrifice a creature. / ~ deals 4 damage to
target creature or player.

No, in general, because Reckless Abandon is a Sorcery, and Sorceries can't
be played during Combat phase, only during Main phase. And by the time it's
Main phase again, both the kitty and the gnomes will be dead, each having
killed the other with combat damage if nothing else.

If you regenerate the Firecat somehow, then it'll still be there after
Combat phase is over, and you can then Reckless Abandon it.

If there's a Vedalken Orrery out, the only way currently I know of to play
a general Sorcery during Combat phase, then you can play the Reckless
Abandon then. If you do so BEFORE combat-damage step, neither creature will
have placed any combat damage on the stack yet, so this won't be "an
additional" 4 damage. If you wait until combat damage is on the stack and
then do so, you'll get the Reckless Abandon damage when it resolves, then the
combat damage when IT resolves, so in that case it'll be "additional", yes ...
but you can't do this without the help of an Orrery.

>My friend's problem is if he can
>block the Blistering Firecat and the Sacrifice the Bottle Gnomes to gain 3
>life

Sure. Of course, the same problem as above arises: if he sacs the Gnomes
_before_ combat-damage step, they won't be there to put combat damage on
the stack, AND, since the Firecat has Trample and now has no blockers (though
of course it's still a blocked attacker) it would have to assign all 7 of its
damage to him. If he waits until combat damage is on the stack, so that the
Firecat had to assign at least 3 combat damage to the Gnomes and at most
4 to him, he'll get a better return on his investment...

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Daniel W. Johnson <panoptes@iquest.net> wrote:
>Zhambah <zhambah@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> A friend and I have a problem, both involving sacrificing creature.
>> First, I play Blistering Firecat and then attack with it, it gets blocked
>> by Bottle Gnomes, and can I then play Reckless Abandon on my Blistering
>> Firecat to do an additional 4 damage.
>
>Not during the combat phase.
>
>212.7a A player may play a sorcery card from his or her hand during a
>main phase of his or her turn, when he or she has priority and the stack
>is empty. Playing a sorcery as a spell uses the stack. (See rule 409,
>"Playing Spells and Activated Abilities.")
>
>Of course, you haven't described anything that would create a problem
>for playing Reckless Abandon during the main phase after the combat phase.

....other than the 7 damage (well, at least 3 of it) from the Firecat killing
the Gnomes, and the 1 damage from the Gnomes killing the Firecat, anyway.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Andy Jakcsy <djaxmann@aol.computer> wrote:

> Well, in the situation as described, he wouldn't have any creature to
> sacrifice for it (unless he's playing blue and has Backslide)...at the
> very least, he wouldn't have the Firecat to sacrifice, anyway, unless his
> opponent is more of a novice than has been described...

Oops.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W